WinWing Orion 2 is a Disaster

[rfxcasey]

Just received my Orion 2 Max. Overall, the HOTAS seems good but there are a few issues that make me take pause. They upgraded the throttle so the cables don't twist and bind anymore, but it's now all plastic, even the mounting plate. They added some features over the mounting plate holes to connect the throttle to some of Winwing's other panels, but it blocks the mounting holes in such a way that really only 2 holes are usable for screwing directly to a table or mount, leaving only 2 screws, one at the front and one at the back, in plastic, which I can definitely see causing the mounting plate to crack in time. Also, while the finger lifts being made of plastic doesn't bother me, what does bother me is that the plates that hold the throttle handles to the throttle mechanism of the base are now plastic as well, even on the non finger lift version, whereas on the original Orion they were metal joining plates albeit without the finger lift option. I would have thought Winwing would have included the original metal connection plates even when buying the 'max' so you could use them if you wanted instead of the finger lifts, or as a fallback in case the finger lift plastic joining plates fail. As it stands, you have to use the finger lift hardware, there is no alternative. I don't think Winwing even sells the new plastic (ugh), non finger lift connecting plates by themselves.

Also, on the F-16 ex stick, the top hat of the 'ex' addon module is basically useless unless you have the longest thumbs in the world, you have to dramatically move your hand position to even think about reaching them and it's still uncomfortable.

The stick and throttle themselves feel fine, very good actually, but I question the quality and longevity of the buttons and many other components. If Winwing hadn't cheaped out on some key areas, they have a knock it out of the park hit on there hands. Unfortunately, as it stands now, I can still smell the Chinese coming from it. Haven't gotten the stick rumble to work either yet. Their software is a bit, eh, well, Chinese is all I can say. If they'd have just included metal plates to join the handles to the throttle I'd say it met expectations. As it stands, the finger lifts and 'ex' shaker kit seem like afterthought money grab addons who's quality does not match the HOTAS itself.

Edited November 16, 2023 by rfxcasey

[_Hoss]

They look awesome, but it looks more and more like WW has no final QA standards, the workers are probably not trained to be MSE 1 or 2. So I would be interested to see their Quality Deficiency Reports and see just how bad they really are. And the data on their planned obsolescence, how long do they last under "Normal" use. In other words are they bullet proof or Ford Military Grade Aluminum good......... ........

I've looked at Virpil CM3 offerings but VPC software has no ability to program keystrokes in games with limited dx inputs (IL2) A secondary program is needed for that unlike TARGET with Thrustmaster products. I'd like to have some of these to play with just to judge for myself if they are all they were intended to be. Even at 65 I still need to remind myself to curb my desire for things I want, so I don't end up selling my necessities to survive. 

JMTCW

 

 

[brettt777]

I just got my Winwing system with the finger lift kit. I don't have a problem with the detents (once I figured out how to calibrate them correctly and also figured out that a few of the jets in DCS have an afterburner gate that needs to be configured and activated every flight). However I do agree with the finger lift paddles being too low so you have to literally change your grip to get at them. However, again this isn't much of an issue with me as I don't use the lifts for AB; I just push through the gate. And changing my grip at shut down isn't a big deal.

While I do agree that the SimAppPro program is... lacking, I definitely don't agree that the Orion 2 system is a disaster. I do have some issues... the hat switches on the throttle handles are much stiffer than those on my F-16EX stick grip. I prefer the lighter switches. I'm not a big fan of the throttle base switch labeling being so specific to one or two DCS aircraft. I fly the Hornet frequently but I also fly many other DCS aircraft and spacecraft in other sims. I would prefer a more generic labeling, or no labels at all. I find some of the switch and knob positions on the throttle base non-ergonomic. Right after take-off I find it very awkward to have to reach around my maxed out throttle lever to get to the landing gear switch. 

All that being said, I absolutely love the overall feel of the system, especially the stick. That in itself just about makes up for any shortcomings.

[TinyDancer]

Good stuff to hear for someone who is currently waiting for their shipment. Unfortunately because it's FedEx, I have to wait until Wednesday to get the HOTAS even though they are approximately 15 miles from house. 

I hate FedEx. 

[531_Jolly]

I wish I had seen these posts before I purchased my WinWing Orion 2 setup.

Since I purchased mine myself, I guess I can give an honest review of the set.

I received mine last week and was immediately disappointed with the finger lift mechanism on the throttle.  Not only are they VERY cheaply made, but they don't even really serve a purpose other than keeping you from moving the throttles to the "Off" position.  The lifts also do not function in any way, shape or form like the real thing.  Moving them forward just causes them to "flop" out of the way without even having to touch them.  Position of the lifts is so low, that you have to move your hand over the top of the throttle to grab them.  

I've seen other posts from people that have had them break after a few months of use, so I'm being pro-active and 3D printing new parts from Carbon Fiber PLA+.  

I should have just stuck with my Warthog and did all the upgrades.  It would have been cheaper and a lot better quality.

The throttle overall is o.k. but not worth the price they're charging.  The body is all plastic and light as a feather.  Will not stay put on your desk without bolting it down or corralling it some how.  While it comes with suction cups, they're useless if your desk has any kind of texturing.  They also tend to wear out after just a few weeks and won't stick any more due to the poor silicon content and the shape of the cups.  

The stick is much better but still has issues sitting still.  I have mine setup for my desk and it stays pretty well but only because I'm using the stock cams and springs.  I'd be hard pressed to keep it in one spot if I upgrade the cams/springs at all.  This leads me to the only problem I have with the stick.....

It's WAY TOO WEAK.  I've gotten so used to using Thrustmaster sticks since the late 80's, that I can't stand a stick that can be moved with only 1 finger.  It feels like I'm flying with a wet noodle for a stick.  I plan to make it stiffer but that brings me back to the problem of keeping the darn thing still.

I'm looking at getting some lead sheets to put into a 3D printed bottom plate and then bolting that to the stick and throttle bases so they hold tight.  The other solution I came up with was using Neodymium Magnets under my desk to keep them in place.  (Using 2" x 2" x 1" magnets under the desk to grab the bottoms of the stick and throttle plates).  The magnets work really well, but I have to be careful not to leave anything that can be damaged by magnetic interference such as HDD's on top of the desk.

Overall, I'd give the WinWing Orion 2's about 3 out of 5 starts. 

 

I hope that this helps out anyone else that hasn't made up their minds yet.

 

 

[mmike87]

After a month of back-and-forth, opening the stick up, swapping wires, re-seating plugs, digging through hot glue, and tolerating disconnections that have become so frequent that the stick is a paperweight, I have to send it back - at my expense - so they can "fix it". It is going to be nearly $100 USB to ship it back to China, and get this ... you're supposed to put down that it's worth $10 on the customs form or they won't pay the landing fees. Am I committing a crime here if I do this? Lying on a customs form? This is a little shady IMO, and has been a horrible customer experience. I have NEVER been asked to pay out of pocket when shipped a defective product. 

[Gripen 4-1]

Their support is crapp! They have to learn their lesson. I own 2 Orion 2 throttles and one TO panel and I am lucky that I have no problems so far. But since I read the horror stories about their customer service here, I will not buy anything from WW until they improve their CS service! It's a shame, how a company can be so innovative, but does not care about their customers and their customer service

Edited June 14, 2023 by Gripen 4-1

[TinyDancer]

15 hours ago, mmike87 said:

After a month of back-and-forth, opening the stick up, swapping wires, re-seating plugs, digging through hot glue, and tolerating disconnections that have become so frequent that the stick is a paperweight, I have to send it back - at my expense - so they can "fix it". It is going to be nearly $100 USB to ship it back to China, and get this ... you're supposed to put down that it's worth $10 on the customs form or they won't pay the landing fees. Am I committing a crime here if I do this? Lying on a customs form? This is a little shady IMO, and has been a horrible customer experience. I have NEVER been asked to pay out of pocket when shipped a defective product. 

 

That is absolutely terrible. Ugh.

[Evocati443]

It's the same experience here. Random disconnects with my brand spanking new Orion 2, a month long of run-arounds in what seemed like their effort to tire you out that you eventually just give up. Went through all the trouble of opening up the entire product per their request, even though it's not the customer's responsibility to DIY repair their product. Eventually they asked me to pay to ship it back and asked me to lie on the customs declaration form by under declaring as under $10. Never have I dealt with a manufacture where i am asked to lie on the customs declaration form. At that point was when I ceased all communications with them and filed for a CC dispute. Oh not to mention that even before i had a working product, they were all so eager to try and sell me another one of their poorly made product by offering me a discount if i would "cooperate with them". It's as if it's an episode of Sopranos. 

luckily my CC company and Bank agreed with my dispute and reimbursed me the purchase. I can now finally move on from this horror. I've learned my lesson that next time some youtuber rave about some awesome product that they received FOR FREE, I should know better to treat it as a product promotion, not a review. 

I hope you get your money back as well Mike. good luck!

 

 

[Razor18]

Gents, I'm a bit confused whether there is any default factory detent(s) on the stock Orion 2 throttle base? Or you only get any detent if you buy the finger lift kit extra?

Thanks

[MustangSally]

4 hours ago, Razor18 said:

Gents, I'm a bit confused whether there is any default factory detent(s) on the stock Orion 2 throttle base? Or you only get any detent if you buy the finger lift kit extra?

Thanks

Detents are only available with the Finger Lift kit

[Razor18]

Thank you !

[Phantom711]

Could we pleeeeeaaaaase, once and for always, bury the myth, that the fingerlifts in the real F/A-18 are needed to select the afterburner? They are not.

I think the construction as it is provides a reasonably good feel of a slight resistance when pushing at the AB and you can then just push through it. On the real thing, only selecting afterburner ON THE GROUND requires more force OR the lifting of the fingerlifts.

An ORION throttle base is not a replica...that role goes to the Super Taurus. For a regular home use product with a smaller throttle arc WW had to make some compromise with regards to the ergonomics of the fingerlifts....and as explained above, you literally only need them for engine shutdown.

[Orbitus]

On 6/14/2023 at 8:50 AM, Gripen 4-1 said:

 

 

On 7/20/2023 at 3:20 PM, Phantom711 said:

rottle arc WW had to make some compromise with regards to the ergonomic

On 7/20/2023 at 3:20 PM, Phantom711 said:

Could we pleeeeeaaaaase, once and for always, bury the myth, that the fingerlifts in the real F/A-18 are needed to select the afterburner? They are not.

I think the construction as it is provides a reasonably good feel of a slight resistance when pushing at the AB and you can then just push through it. On the real thing, only selecting afterburner ON THE GROUND requires more force OR the lifting of the fingerlifts.

An ORION throttle base is not a replica...that role goes to the Super Taurus. For a regular home use product with a smaller throttle arc WW had to make some compromise with regards to the ergonomics of the fingerlifts....and as explained above, you literally only need them for engine shutdown.

  Well, I received my MFDs and f-18 UFC, Orion 2 100th year anniversary throttle, F-18 and F-16E grip and I could not be happier. Outstanding quality and service. For those complaining about the fact that you have to pay to ship it back, it's on their web page FYI, so you know what you were all getting into

Not only are they visually stunning units of hardware, they have a better feel than some other "companies" such as VKB who didn't have their bases available for a full YEAR and have snarky mods and reps on their channels.

There is nothing wrong with plastic. It will probably last longer and look better for wear. They are putting these kinds of plastics in ICE for cars for Pete's sake. Unless you want to use it a footstool or paper weight, why does it make a difference? And they are not light as a feather. They have substantial weight and the grips and the Orion 2 F-16E and F-18 joysticks are beautifully made and made of metal (I love the cold feel of metal on the joystick/throttle) but most manufacturers make their joystics and throttles out of plastic. I didn't buy my joystick to hammer nails, after all. So very satisfied, here.  Highly recommended.  

 

[MustangSally]

2 hours ago, Orbitus said:

 

 

 .... and?? FFS!

[MIghtymoo]

«Buy cheap, buy twice» is my experience.

Go VKB or Virpil.

[MustangSally]

1 hour ago, MIghtymoo said:

«Buy cheap, buy twice» is my experience.

Go VKB or Virpil.

Really? Wouldn't touch VKB or Virpil if you paid me!

oh, and WW gear isn't cheap!

Edited November 13, 2023 by MustangSally

[MIghtymoo]

3 hours ago, MustangSally said:

oh, and WW gear isn't cheap!

 

Even worse...

[eFirehawk]

4 hours ago, MustangSally said:

Really? Wouldn't touch VKB or Virpil if you paid me!

oh, and WW gear isn't cheap!

 

Why? I had a Warthog setup, have a Virpil and the whole Orion 2 kit now. At least the Virpil stick base is miles ahead of the Orion... much smoother and wayyy more precise at the center. And the TM A-10 stick ( mine sitting on the Virpil base )feels much better than the WW A-10 stick... only reason I'm sticking with the WW is because it has way more buttons. Only reason I ordered the WW is because of the metal F-15E handles... which aren't even that good to be honest...

[Jeb]

40 minutes ago, eFirehawk said:

Why? I had a Warthog setup, have a Virpil and the whole Orion 2 kit now. At least the Virpil stick base is miles ahead of the Orion... much smoother and wayyy more precise at the center. And the TM A-10 stick ( mine sitting on the Virpil base )feels much better than the WW A-10 stick... only reason I'm sticking with the WW is because it has way more buttons. Only reason I ordered the WW is because of the metal F-15E handles... which aren't even that good to be honest...

my WW Super Libra stick is and feels better then my virpil stick ever felt, that is why I got rid of it.. same for the TM warthog throttle, pure junk feel.

[MustangSally]

5 hours ago, eFirehawk said:

Why? I had a Warthog setup, have a Virpil and the whole Orion 2 kit now. At least the Virpil stick base is miles ahead of the Orion... much smoother and wayyy more precise at the center. And the TM A-10 stick ( mine sitting on the Virpil base )feels much better than the WW A-10 stick... only reason I'm sticking with the WW is because it has way more buttons. Only reason I ordered the WW is because of the metal F-15E handles... which aren't even that good to be honest...

Each to their own, Have 2 x Orion2 sticks and as far as I'm concerned they are way ahead of of Virpil or TM.

6 hours ago, MIghtymoo said:

Even worse...

Why are you here?

[MIghtymoo]

10 hours ago, MustangSally said:

Why are you here?

It is a thread discussing bad quality and support from WW. 

Glad you are happy with you gear, but other have not been as seen from this thread.

Edited November 14, 2023 by MIghtymoo

[MustangSally]

1 hour ago, MIghtymoo said:

It is a thread discussing bad quality and support from WW. 

Glad you are happy with you gear, but other have not been as seen from this thread.

 

Only a few....and you also see similar threads in the Virpil, VKB and TM forums.

Edited November 14, 2023 by MustangSally

[Joch1955]

well I guess it is the nature of forums that players only post when they have an issue so you get a warped view of the quality of these products.

I have had a Orion 2 for close to a year with zero issues and am very happy with my purchase.

I got it 1 week after ordering. Price was reasonable, less than a TM Warthog even after shipping, foreign exchange and duties. It was easy to put together and setup in DCS. Build quality, feel of the handles and switches is top notch. It works perfectly with no issues in DCS.

I have no problem recommending it.

[TED]

I'm with Joch on this. I've been nothing but happy with my WW stuff. An orion 2 throttle base with f18 and f16 grips. Phoenix MIP setup with f18 ufc and 3 MFDS. I found everything to work perfectly, it's good quality and a fair price. 

My experience with my vkb gunfighter however was less positive. The ultimate grip was horrible and I replaced it with my old tm grip. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by TED