Breakaway Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Excuse my ignorance, I know little of the F1, which variant are we getting that is capable of aerial refueling? here's a video because why not... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toutenglisse Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Breakaway said: ...which variant are we getting that is capable of aerial refueling?... Quoting latest DCS Official News letter : "Once air-to-air refueling is completed, the inertial navigation system (INS), and the new RWR will be delivered and the EE will be ready for release." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTeo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 The first variant released (the CE), as well as the two seater (BE) will not have air to air refueling. The EE and M which will follow the CE will though. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get_Lo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 6 hours ago, TLTeo said: The first variant released (the CE), as well as the two seater (BE) will not have air to air refueling. The EE and M which will follow the CE will though. the BE Might have it, but if its realistic its only a fake probe. Either way, good practice! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremspropeller Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 8 hours ago, TLTeo said: The EE and M which will follow the CE will though. Are you sure about the M? AFAIK, the M could be based on either the CE or the EE airframes. The CE airframes IIRC never got the probe during the modification, while the M with EE heritage held on to their probes. The probes can be taken off easily*, but they can't be easily retrofitted (fuselage needs minor lenthening and the plumbing takes up fuel volume IIRC). The dry probe on some Bs (they're actual probes but they don't have any plumbing) can be bolted on without mods, though. *The Iraqis did that for example when they did recce-flights in Jordan, along the israeli border. So ein Feuerball, JUNGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get_Lo Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Bremspropeller said: Are you sure about the M? AFAIK, the M could be based on either the CE or the EE airframes. The CE airframes IIRC never got the probe during the modification, while the M with EE heritage held on to their probes. The probes can be taken off easily*, but they can't be easily retrofitted (fuselage needs minor lenthening and the plumbing takes up fuel volume IIRC). The dry probe on some Bs (they're actual probes but they don't have any plumbing) can be bolted on without mods, though. *The Iraqis did that for example when they did recce-flights in Jordan, along the israeli border. from the F1M cockpit photos we have seen, there is a refueling probe, implying our F1M was a former F1EE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 I had listened many times many years ago refuelling probes could be and were removed and refitted easily and commonly during daily service. I think now that was a bad mistake confusing C and E models, which by the way were changed and mixed in numerals (though constant serials OC) for all their active life making the identification even more confusing without that info at hand. Tried to find something about that in a little though quite useful and thorough book about F1 in Spanish service to no avail. Anyhow there I found which numerals and serials were what model (even more than I thought, apparently there were up to seven variants in service in Spanish Air Force at some point, which I weren't aware of ), so a quick check in my little modelling purposes photo stash (useful right now) and I was unable to find a single example, even among overhauled ones after 1999, which was a previous CE model wearing a refuelling probe in their latter configuration as F1M. Apparently for M model, since it was not just a MLU but a full overhaul to make it the final and most capable model until retirement, everything was upgraded even for CE models as long as their airframes were Ok to make the whole fleet homogeneous in capabilities and everything. But the refuelling probe wasn't probably one of those upgrades though I was convinced till I checked now the probe were actually removed and refitted. Never checked for myself till now either, I guess. By the way, I couldn't find either a single example of a clearly identified E model without a probe fitted, neither in M latter config of those, and I believe that was a definitive evidence that the removal-refit thing wasn't practised at all in SAF service. So, Aerges will have to compromise their model making it all the same I guess, M will be one and not two different ones featuring C/E mixed properties and so. Anyhow that's not a bad compromise I believe. Maybe they allow us to remove/refit the probe in ME options, for M model at least, so we can "disguise" them as upgraded Cs either. "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremspropeller Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Here's what the two-volume lelapresse books have to offer on serials: - CE: C14-1 thru C14-25 and C14-32 thru C14-51 - EE: C14-52 thru C14-73 - BE: C14-26 thru C14-31 French Mirage F1C °54, 67, 71 and 73 as well as F1B °506 were delivered to the EdA in exchange to a CASA 235 transport aircraft in 1994. They were numbered C14-87 (F1B) and C14-88 thru C14-91. The ex qatari F1EDAs bought by Spain were QA 71, 73 thru 82 and F1DDA QA 62 and 63. They became C14C-74 thru 84 for the EDA and CE14C-85 and 86 for the DDAs. It doesnt mention which airframes were chosen to be upgraded to M and BM standard, though it says they were 48 single-seaters (out of 45 CE and 21 EE airframes) and 4 two-seaters (out of 6 BE). None of the qatari aircraft were upgraded. It's not clear whether the ex AdlA F1C and F1B aircraft were upgraded. Technically it's nine variants - ten if you split the CE and EE "M" sub-variants One more thing regarding the probe: It's very hard to make out the airframe-difference at a glance (it's just a 7cm length-difference after all), but it's clear once you have two good pictures of a configuration each to compare. The B can take the "dry" probe without modification, of course. 1 So ein Feuerball, JUNGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) On 7/9/2022 at 9:49 PM, Bremspropeller said: It's not clear whether the ex AdlA F1C and F1B aircraft were upgraded. Unclear no more . In the first batches a total of 6 two seaters were bought, but since they're single engine airframes loses during regular operations summed up as much as 3 of them at least, so that's why several more second hand two seaters were bought from Qatar and France. Not sure about the Qatari ones, I believe none of those airframes were overhauled at all (cannibalized for spare parts though) neither single or two seaters, but actually the single F1B from Armèe de l'Air was updated so at least one more two seater was available in M configuration, Sincerely I don't envy Aerges having to choose among a myriad of models which one, in which configuration, to model or not. If they stick to the originally bought models it's fine but they're mostly older variants and lacking features, which we know DCS fans want as per usual, until more recent updates, if we look closely among the later second hand and overhauled ones number of choices start to spread like butter over a hot toast… Edited July 18, 2022 by Ala13_ManOWar 1 2 "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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