"no function" switches

[aledmb]

hi,

 

reading through the flight manual, i found several "not functional"

switches and knobs, some of which are not clickable (not green)

and others look like any other implemented one.

 

i have noticed that, in the vast majority, they would perform

built-in tests and are located in the rear auxiliary panel.

 

as my experience with flight simulations is almost none, i would

like to ask: why are there so many not functional switches?

will you implement them in future patches?

 

forgive me for asking this,

i know it's a noob thing...

:doh:

[Wasabi]

why are there so many not functional switches?

will you implement them in future patches?

 

 

Funny... I was wondering about that myself too... :huh:

[Chillspider]

maybe it is just too much to implement every single system into the sim also some systems maybe hard to simulate in the game . I dunno thats just my 2 cents.

[fox_111]

My guess is, they are not implemented because they would be no use for them in such a simulator. Like pilot heat or other environemental systeme.

 

Or advance diagnostic backup systeme or whatever.

[HogRider]

Oh Oh,

 

there are non functional switches? I hope it won't be like that in the A-10C. For a hardcore simmer like me, a non-functional switch is killing a lot of immersion.

 

Even systems like the pitot heat and environmental systems should be there, because if you simulate everything in the right way, these will be used for sure in certain conditions. I really hope that there will be a sim one day, simulating everything. I heard that the upcoming sim fighterops is going to do that!?

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to the first fixed wing add-on with a fully working cockpit. :D

[skypirate]

Yes, there are some switches which don't do anything though they can be flipped.

 

The question is do you realy need them working having in mind that all major systems operate and there are systems that you will rarely use (maybe never) and are operational too.

 

The last FSX add-on is MD11 (my opinion - best so far for Flight Simulator) and even this sim has non operational switches. This doesn't change the actual experience.

[Boberro]

Oh Oh, there are non functional switches? I hope it won't be like that in the A-10C. For a hardcore simmer like me, a non-functional switch is killing a lot of immersion.

 

:)

 

What for clickable functional switches if example AI is not modelled so depth to use it?

 

In Ka-50 there is if I good remember - if not correct me - not functional Tape recorder. I don't know for what now in game you would like to see working tape recorder, maybe if rest game would simulate playing it or similar to this why not, but now in game you cannot play tape record so this function is not needed ;]

[GGTharos]

Oh Oh,

 

there are non functional switches? I hope it won't be like that in the A-10C. For a hardcore simmer like me, a non-functional switch is killing a lot of immersion.

 

Bull. The air-conditioning system which you will never operate as it has zero effect on you kills nothing if its switches and dials aren't operative.

 

I heard that the upcoming sim fighterops is going to do that!?

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to the first fixed wing add-on with a fully working cockpit. :D

 

Yeah, I'm sure they'll come in and install a hairdryer in for you for that 'hot and dry' AC mode they'll model ;)

[HogRider]

Bull. The air-conditioning system which you will never operate as it has zero effect on you kills nothing if its switches and dials aren't operative.

Well, if you just talk about kills, I would agree with you, but please read my post. I am talking about hardcore simming and there you would even operate that system, cause its in the real aircraft as well. It depends on the simulation around it. If there is nothing simulated where this AC could be used then it shouldnt be there, because it makes no sense. However, if you simulate the whole environment around it, it might be very useful in cases of canopy icing, bad airspeed indications due to icing, where you need the pitot heat etc.

 

What for clickable functional switches if example AI is not modelled so depth to use it?

This is what I mean with what I said above.

[GGTharos]

Well, if you just talk about kills,[

 

I don't, I mean that the lack of AC operation kills nothing in terms of immersion ;)

 

I would agree with you, but please read my post. I am talking about hardcore simming and there you would even operate that system, cause its in the real aircraft as well.

 

And I say you're taking this hard core thing way too far, wanting to model useless systems where this time can be used to better a part of the sim that is in fact functional and makes sense to model.

 

It depends on the simulation around it. If there is nothing simulated where this AC could be used then it shouldnt be there, because it makes no sense. However, if you simulate the whole environment around it, it might be very useful in cases of canopy icing, bad airspeed indications due to icing, where you need the pitot heat etc.

 

This is what I mean with what I said above.

 

I didn't say anything about pitot heat, which is simulated.

You wanted ALL the switches to be simulated; they aren't and won't be, since a bunch of them do nothing for you when it comes to the actual simulation - as in your air conditioning inside the cockpit.

[EvilBivol-1]

FYI, the pitot tube heating is actually implemented and modeled in Black Shark, as is INS warming.

 

HogRider, there will always be some elements not implemented for one of the following reasons:

a) Classified/too sensitive

b) No time/resources to implement

c) The cost of implementation outweighs the benefits for simulation

 

Taking Black Shark as an example, not modeling the IFF switch can be assigned to both (a) and (b). Not modeling the OAT gauge would fall under (b). Not modeling the various BIT functions would fall under ©, because these are things typically performed by ground personnel.

[RvETito]

Hairdryer? Now that's a cool idea, too bad I don't have much hair :D

 

I've heard that US fighter pilots have flight suits where they can take a leak during long missions. I would like to have that modeled in DCS:Warthog :D

[d0ppler]

what about a real ejection seat? Would made you think twice about hitting ctrl+E, E, E

[HogRider]

GGTharos, EvilBivol,

 

well you might be right. It might be due to the fact that I am a real pilot and think about this stuff. In a CombatSim this might not be always of use. I agree.

 

Well, I just want the best A-10C simulation possible, because I was missing immersion in the LOMAC version. I liked it though, but I never felt being there really. I guess you know what I mean.

 

Hey, I already ordered that flight suit for the leaking thing, just in case it will not be simulated...;)

[d0ppler]

Well, I'm a "real" pilot as well (if you consider people with PPL-A as real pilots) and I must admit that I never has missed the "adjust cabin temperature" switch in a simulator. You really care about this?

If you along with the software got a suit which simulates coldness/heat, then I might worth consider that button to be operational. :p

 

What about adjusting safety harness and the seat? Should that be possible as well??

[miguez]

Under the risk of catching a lot of heat (all pun intended), I do have to agree with HogRider on this one. I can see that most people do not care about, for example, a functioning environmental system, but I enjoy controlling such parameters, and it does add to my immersion factor, which I am sure is different between everyone.

 

I fly Microsoft's FSX also, and get a kick out of adjusting the cabin temp in different temperature conditions, as I imagine myself in that situation. Might be a small (or big!) stretch for others but, again, I tihnk people are just different.

 

That being said, I do agree that development time should be spent on more important/effective things first, but to me it doesn't mean developers shouldn't consider it and dismiss it as a simple "that doesn't do anything" kind of feature.

 

Just my 2 cents ;).

[aledmb]

...these are things typically performed by ground personnel.

 

that's what i thought after posting this thread.

the pilot doesn't need to perform all those built-in tests himself.

 

i just want to let you know that i'm not complaining about this

here, because i know the whole Ka-50 is there. i mean, all the

basic and advanced features seem to be implemented and

that's what we want.

 

at least, i don't need fancy things in the sim like hearing the

pilot whispering to himself "damn, it's really hot in here..."

 

i would suggest that you put these considerations in the

manual, like a topic explaining which systems were not

implemented and why.

 

just a thought.

[Contrail]

Wow, this falls under a catergory called "Role Playing" :P

 

Its pretty stupid to implement something that you have no use for, thats just my opinion. Besides, I have enough switches to worry about other than the warmth of the cockpit. Once again, thats just my opinion.

 

Cheers.:thumbup:

Edited December 28, 2008 by Contrail
Bold words in the hope of ppl apreciating what my views are in the subject. Not directed to any person directly.

[fox_111]

Wow, this falls under a catergory called "Role Playing" :P

 

 

 

When you are a level6 pilot and up, you need those advanced features.

They increase a chance to hit on a D6 roll. Pilot heat for tempetures of bellow 15deg allow a re-roll.

 

Hahaha!

[REL]

If there is a way for people from the community to implement these extra Features I say … why the hell not???

The more the better!!!

One man Joke is the other man Excitement.

So stop making jokes about People suggestions because they are ED customers too !!!

Edited December 28, 2008 by REL

[HogRider]

Thanks REL! :D

 

Well, there are a lot of different simmers and everybody has the right to exist. There are even people building a cockpit and sitting infront of a PC with a flight suit and helmet. Not for me, but hey, if they love it that way..thumbs up.

 

Well, when I talk about the environmental system (the system everybody jumps on now), I don't necessarily mean the temp in the cockpit, but an environmental system is used for a lot more stuff than cabin heat. Its pressurizing the g-suit for example. What do you do if you have a problem in that system and your suit is not working anymore. Do you think you can pull all the g's over a longer period? What if you have a cabin fire. How do you get the smoke out of the cockpit? Which system is pressurizing the cockpit and what happens if you have a sudden loss of cabin pressure at high altitude, especially in fast movers?

 

This stuff I am talking about and not if it is warm or cold in the cockpit.

 

Of course it makes no sense to simulate these systems, if all the surroundings are not up for it and dont take it into account. However, I am looking for a sim that just does that and any simulation company doing that for me and others will get my full support and again, if people don't like that hardcore, I have no problem if they scale the sim down. In the end its the fun that counts and the definition of fun is different for different simmers....my 2 cents :)

[REL]

Thanks REL! :D

 

Well, there are a lot of different simmers and everybody has the right to exist. There are even people building a cockpit and sitting infront of a PC with a flight suit and helmet. Not for me, but hey, if they love it that way..thumbs up.

 

Well, when I talk about the environmental system (the system everybody jumps on now), I don't necessarily mean the temp in the cockpit, but an environmental system is used for a lot more stuff than cabin heat. Its pressurizing the g-suit for example. What do you do if you have a problem in that system and your suit is not working anymore. Do you think you can pull all the g's over a longer period? What if you have a cabin fire. How do you get the smoke out of the cockpit? Which system is pressurizing the cockpit and what happens if you have a sudden loss of cabin pressure at high altitude, especially in fast movers?

 

This stuff I am talking about and not if it is warm or cold in the cockpit.

 

Of course it makes no sense to simulate these systems, if all the surroundings are not up for it and dont take it into account. However, I am looking for a sim that just does that and any simulation company doing that for me and others will get my full support and again, if people don't like that hardcore, I have no problem if they scale the sim down. In the end its the fun that counts and the definition of fun is different for different simmers....my 2 cents :)

 

We see the issue eye to eye .

Please advise me when you find this kind of simulation.

(=8

[amalahama]

Not forget defrosting devices!! Particularly useful in the cold Russian winter!!

[gear_monkey]

Thanks REL! :D

 

Well, there are a lot of different simmers and everybody has the right to exist. There are even people building a cockpit and sitting infront of a PC with a flight suit and helmet. Not for me, but hey, if they love it that way..thumbs up.

 

Well, when I talk about the environmental system (the system everybody jumps on now), I don't necessarily mean the temp in the cockpit, but an environmental system is used for a lot more stuff than cabin heat. Its pressurizing the g-suit for example. What do you do if you have a problem in that system and your suit is not working anymore. Do you think you can pull all the g's over a longer period? What if you have a cabin fire. How do you get the smoke out of the cockpit? Which system is pressurizing the cockpit and what happens if you have a sudden loss of cabin pressure at high altitude, especially in fast movers?

 

This stuff I am talking about and not if it is warm or cold in the cockpit.

 

Of course it makes no sense to simulate these systems, if all the surroundings are not up for it and dont take it into account. However, I am looking for a sim that just does that and any simulation company doing that for me and others will get my full support and again, if people don't like that hardcore, I have no problem if they scale the sim down. In the end its the fun that counts and the definition of fun is different for different simmers....my 2 cents :)

 

No offense but I always get a kick out of your type of posts. I have been in the computer based aircraft sim world since 1989. If it was produced and sold, I have owned and played it. From the worst to the best.

 

I am amazed that there are always people who complain about this switch not working or that system not modeled and picking over minutia.

 

This is not FSX. It is a combat simulator. Why don't you spend endless hours of your own time and create a mod to add your desired level of detail and then offer it to the community?

 

Let me also call you out on this "real pilot" thing. I myself am a 15+ year professional pilot with both airline and corporate experience. One of my jobs for the last 8 years has been to instruct pilots in 2 different aircraft using multi-million dollar full motion Level D simulators.

 

Engineers spend years attempting to build "as real as it gets" full motion simulators that ALWAYS cost more than the actual aircraft they are simulating. They are marvels of the computer and engineering community and their one purpose is to create a simulator that is identical in operation as the real aircraft but guess what?

 

NONE of them do it yet. They are really close....the best I have seen come within 98% of the real aircraft, but there is always something that is different from the real thing.

 

100% fidelity in simulation is possible but is always restricted by money, time, military secrets, or other outside issues.

[HogRider]

Hi gear_monkey,

 

well I have been in the computer sim world since Flight Simulator I, but this is not the point.

 

Also I know that a simulator can not accurately represent the real deal. I am not stupid and know that from experience.

 

This "real pilot" thing is nothing I wanted to throw in to show how experienced I am. Well, in fact I am pretty experienced, but I dont go there. Its just that I like to see a good and complete simulation. Thats it.

 

Well if ED or anybody else is not doing it, fair enough. No problem. But there is nothing wrong with requesting something like that.