Take Off

[JOEM423]

How do you get this thing to stay straight down the runway on take off??? It keeps skidding left and right!!!!

thanks In advance

Joe

[grafspee]

My way of doing take off,

1 i let plane roll a bit to make sure that tail wheel is straight,

2 i use separate throttle to keep plane, as soon i see plane turn left or right i advance throttle for one engine to correct roll at the same time i use rudder to keep plane roll nice.

[Bozon]

I also had difficulties, but this is how I do it now, easy and no differential throttles required:

1. Roll straight before you come to a complete stop to straighten the tail wheel.

2. Come to a full stop.

3. Make sure that rudder trim is at the ”T”, and pitch is 2 notches forward. Roll trim right 1 notch is recommended, but not mandatory. 10 degrees flaps also recommended for all conditions.

4. The key: while on breaks, push boost to +9 to +12 range, and wait for it to stabilize.

5. Release breaks and be ready to gently correct direction with the breaks - once the rudder responds, stop using the breaks and use only rudder. Ideally you’ll apply very little of either.

6. You can push to higher boost, but only after rudder becomes effective.

7. The tail should come up by itself around 100 (if you trimmed as above). Let it run for a sec on 2 wheels. Do not pull up before the tail lifts.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Bozon

[Art-J]

+1 for Bozon's advice.

2 or 3 taps of L/R brake will do the job during a couple of seconds of initial roll when rudder doesn't work, but when it does eventually, nothing else is needed. I tried playing with differential throttles when the module was released, but it caused more harm than good and is not really necessary. I never do it nowadays. It comes in handy while taxiing, though!

[_Hoss]

Put the hand break on your right or left toe brake, and adjust the curve so the nose doesn't do a face plant....

Using both throttles does work very well as stated above....

Good Luck

[grafspee]

Im good with throttles and rudder alone, using brakes is too erratic, take off does not look good.

It is good chance to bust your tail wheel if brakes aren't used with caution.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by grafspee

[RodBorza]

On 7/13/2022 at 3:12 PM, Bozon said:

I also had difficulties, but this is how I do it now, easy and no differential throttles required:

1. Roll straight before you come to a complete stop to straighten the tail wheel.

2. Come to a full stop.

3. Make sure that rudder trim is at the ”T”, and pitch is 2 notches forward. Roll trim right 1 notch is recommended, but not mandatory. 10 degrees flaps also recommended for all conditions.

4. The key: while on breaks, push boost to +9 to +12 range, and wait for it to stabilize.

5. Release breaks and be ready to gently correct direction with the breaks - once the rudder responds, stop using the breaks and use only rudder. Ideally you’ll apply very little of either.

6. You can push to higher boost, but only after rudder becomes effective.

7. The tail should come up by itself around 100 (if you trimmed as above). Let it run for a sec on 2 wheels. Do not pull up before the tail lifts.

 

This is good advice. The only thing I would add is to pull the controls to the up position and keep them there when you do the initial throttle up. Release them when the speed gets to 60 MPH. It is easy to see since it is the very first speed showing in the speedometer. This way it seems easier to control, for me at least.

[Mogster]

Using brakes on takeoff just sounds bizarre to me, surely it’s too aggressive.
 

The tailwheel was quite fragile in real life it seems.

 

[orcus]

I do exactly the same as Bozon and it works for me ever time 

I now find this the easiest war bird to takeoff and land 

[Bozon]

1 hour ago, Mogster said:

Using brakes on takeoff just sounds bizarre to me, surely it’s too aggressive.
 

The tailwheel was quite fragile in real life it seems.

 

It’s odd but that is the ground steering method of the mossie.
 

Because the rudder pedals are coupled to the differential breaking it is quite intuitive in practice: during takeoff run you try to veer by applying rudder - if that does not respond (speed too low) while still holding the rudder pedal you tap the brake lever a little to get a response. Within a few seconds of accelerating you start to get a response from the rudder and you can stop adding the brake lever.

[Michael Taylor]

I've tried everything suggested in this thread to consistently take off in the Mosquito. I'm successful about 1 in every 20 attempts (and that's a fluke when I get the 1). As soon as you gain some speed and get a little off line it starts sliding and you lose control. Is there something wrong with the modelling of this simulation? I'm using the Thrustmaster joystick, throttle & foot pedals. Is there some trick that I'm missing. I'm really disappointed as the Mosquito was the main reason I invested in DCS.

[Terry Dactil]

Yes. There appears to be something wrong with the ground dynamics of the Mosquito. It gives me the impression that the CG distance is too far back from the main wheel axis and it is like trying to control a wheelbarrow at 100 knots. The slightest deviation rapidly diverges out of control.

However, I have no problems with the Mosquito, as there is a simple way to set your control sensitivity.

• Get into close (very close) formation with another aircraft and adjust your control sensitivity until you can hold a steady position without any oscillating.
• You will be unstable and oscillate if the control is too sluggish and also if it is too sensitive. Adjust either the curve or the limits until you are stable.

I have a huge adjustment set for the Mosquito on my Thrustmaster pedals - Curve =30, Deadzone = 10, but that is what works for me.

[grafspee]

@Michael Taylor ground handling is not perfect far all warbirds in DCS but it is what it is. Couple important things.

For take off use max power, plane will accelerate quick and this makes things easier.

Do not force tail lift too soon, just let it rise by it self.

Setting some curves on rudder helps but most important thing is to use short rapid inputs, do not try to find sweet spot of rudder, it won't work that way.

If this is your first warbird, my advice is to do some flying in TF-51 it let you grasp dcs handling of the warbirds.

Mosquito is the hardest plane to take off and land and others don't get even close

 

[AngryViper.101]

I have also been more succesful doing this.

1. Lock the wheel brakes

2. Power up 80% +-

3. Release wheel brakes 

3.1 Now in the beginning - especially on grass runway ... you will have to use the rudder to counter the 'slip' with slight brakes 

3.2 Soon after letting her run you can use rudder only, no brakes! to correct

(I never use pitch or bank - only rudder control - until in the air! even then mostly trim ...)

4. Then do not pull the nose up, let it straighten out by itself and then gently keep the nose level 

5. As soon as possible pull up the landing gear, reduces drag I found

6. Then use the rudder to keep it from slipping, need to keep watching that slip needle under the gunsight!

7. Then level the flaps. I always use 14-degree flap regardless of loadout.

8. Then engine gear into higher setting. and remember to bring down the RPM to around 70%... and throttle slightly back.

P.S during take-off I use the 'TRIM' a lot to trim the aircraft on a straightish path, fighting the aircraft with normal pitch and bank may result in a stall and crash.

 

[Skewgear]

5 hours ago, Michael Taylor said:

I've tried everything suggested in this thread to consistently take off in the Mosquito. I'm successful about 1 in every 20 attempts (and that's a fluke when I get the 1). As soon as you gain some speed and get a little off line it starts sliding and you lose control. Is there something wrong with the modelling of this simulation? I'm using the Thrustmaster joystick, throttle & foot pedals. Is there some trick that I'm missing. I'm really disappointed as the Mosquito was the main reason I invested in DCS.

First things first, are you paying attention to the wind direction over the runway? The Mosquito does not play nicely in strong crosswinds (in fact no taildragger or warbird does). Tailwinds will extend your ground run considerably. A headwind straight down the runway is the easiest way to learn.

Second, are you setting up the trims before you try to take off? Elevator trim around 1.5-2 divisions nose heavy (forward), rudder trim set to the M of Trim on the dial, aileron trim set 1.5-2 divisions right. Remember your required trim varies with weight: a 100% fuelled and armed aircraft handles very differently to one with 15% fuel and no weapons.

Third, do you have a split throttle or one with multiple axes? If you have multiple axes, split your engines and try taking off by leading slightly with the left engine as you throttle up.

Fourth, what power settings are you using for takeoff and how do you get there? Slamming it forward to the firewall is a good way to ground loop. Advancing the throttles slowly to +14lbs boost works for me. Slowly = 4 or 5 seconds from idle to required setting.

Lastly, are you pulling forward a few feet once you're on the runway to ensure the tailwheel is straight? Also, don't be afraid to tap the brakes on takeoff if you need to keep it straight. Indeed, if it's going wrong stop the whole thing early.

Oh, make sure you're on a long runway too. Needs Oar Point, Tangmere, Evreux and Carpiquet are the longest on the Normandy map. Manston is best for Channel.

[razo+r]

6 hours ago, Michael Taylor said:

I've tried everything suggested in this thread to consistently take off in the Mosquito. I'm successful about 1 in every 20 attempts (and that's a fluke when I get the 1). As soon as you gain some speed and get a little off line it starts sliding and you lose control. Is there something wrong with the modelling of this simulation? I'm using the Thrustmaster joystick, throttle & foot pedals. Is there some trick that I'm missing. I'm really disappointed as the Mosquito was the main reason I invested in DCS.

Make sure to correct your aircraft before the situation gets worse. Do not sit there, watch and then correct. Correct as soon as you see something starting to go wrong. 

[Art-J]

Since Mike Taylor seems to be a relatively new DCS player, I'd also suggest checking if takeoff assist is (or isn't) turned off in Mossie's special options tab.

Although opinions about using it differ, for me the very last thing I need is the damn computer trying to "assist" me by doing its own rudder and brake inputs while I'm doing mine. Having two pilots (you and your PC) trying to control the plane at the same time cannot end well, especially when you're learning takeoffs and landings. But that's my opinion, YMMV.

[grafspee]

@Art-J good point, with those turn on, you don't need to use rudder during take off, if you do, weird things may happen. The worst case is to have assists on and not knowing about them

Edited October 12, 2022 by grafspee

[Michael Taylor]

On 10/12/2022 at 4:17 PM, grafspee said:

@Michael Taylor ground handling is not perfect far all warbirds in DCS but it is what it is. Couple important things.

For take off use max power, plane will accelerate quick and this makes things easier.

Do not force tail lift too soon, just let it rise by it self.

Setting some curves on rudder helps but most important thing is to use short rapid inputs, do not try to find sweet spot of rudder, it won't work that way.

If this is your first warbird, my advice is to do some flying in TF-51 it let you grasp dcs handling of the warbirds.

Mosquito is the hardest plane to take off and land and others don't get even close

 

I've been flying the P47-D successfully for about 4 months and have got the basic concepts ironed out. Getting the Axis tuning & trim settings right was the key to this. I've been flying the Spitfire as well without much problem, though I get the feeling that it has the same basic modelling for takeoff as the mosquito. It's just that you get into the air quicker before the lack of control kicks in. It doesn't matter how much or little I apply the break (or rudder when available), the plane is simply out of control. I've got the break set on the right Thrustmaster toe pedal. I've set the AXIS tuning to a curve ff 25 & dead zone of 5, but it still doesn't solve the issue. I might try to extend this more as suggested in one if the other posts. Thanks for the tips!

On 10/12/2022 at 2:17 PM, Terry Dactil said:

Yes. There appears to be something wrong with the ground dynamics of the Mosquito. It gives me the impression that the CG distance is too far back from the main wheel axis and it is like trying to control a wheelbarrow at 100 knots. The slightest deviation rapidly diverges out of control.

However, I have no problems with the Mosquito, as there is a simple way to set your control sensitivity.

• Get into close (very close) formation with another aircraft and adjust your control sensitivity until you can hold a steady position without any oscillating.
• You will be unstable and oscillate if the control is too sluggish and also if it is too sensitive. Adjust either the curve or the limits until you are stable.

I have a huge adjustment set for the Mosquito on my Thrustmaster pedals - Curve =30, Deadzone = 10, but that is what works for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by getting into a formation. For takeoff? I already have a Curve of 25, but I will extend out further. My dead zone is set to 5 so I will try some more on this as well. Cheers.

[Michael Taylor]

On 10/12/2022 at 7:24 PM, Skewgear said:

First things first, are you paying attention to the wind direction over the runway? The Mosquito does not play nicely in strong crosswinds (in fact no taildragger or warbird does). Tailwinds will extend your ground run considerably. A headwind straight down the runway is the easiest way to learn.

Second, are you setting up the trims before you try to take off? Elevator trim around 1.5-2 divisions nose heavy (forward), rudder trim set to the M of Trim on the dial, aileron trim set 1.5-2 divisions right. Remember your required trim varies with weight: a 100% fuelled and armed aircraft handles very differently to one with 15% fuel and no weapons.

Third, do you have a split throttle or one with multiple axes? If you have multiple axes, split your engines and try taking off by leading slightly with the left engine as you throttle up.

Fourth, what power settings are you using for takeoff and how do you get there? Slamming it forward to the firewall is a good way to ground loop. Advancing the throttles slowly to +14lbs boost works for me. Slowly = 4 or 5 seconds from idle to required setting.

Lastly, are you pulling forward a few feet once you're on the runway to ensure the tailwheel is straight? Also, don't be afraid to tap the brakes on takeoff if you need to keep it straight. Indeed, if it's going wrong stop the whole thing early.

Oh, make sure you're on a long runway too. Needs Oar Point, Tangmere, Evreux and Carpiquet are the longest on the Normandy map. Manston is best for Channel.

Thanks to your reply.  I've addressed your query's inline below. Please feel free to keep the suggestions flowing. There must be something I'm missing if others have mastered it.

• Settings for wind etc, are set to minimal
• Trim settings are all good.
• I've got a split throttle and have tried controlling movement with this method as well, but I get the same result as when I'm using break & rudder control. I haven't given this a lot of time, so will try to master this a little more.
• I've tried every method for the same result. Starting slow and building up to starting at full power. Same result. The smallest adjustment has an exponentially greater effect as the speed increases.
• I've set the mission to have a hot start from the runway, so assuming the tail wheel is straight. I will check. But this shouldn't matter as I should be able to correct this without killing myself.

I'll keep plugging away until I break this beast!

[Holbeach]

5 hours ago, Michael Taylor said:

Thanks to your reply.  I've addressed your query's inline below. Please feel free to keep the suggestions flowing. There must be something I'm missing if others have mastered it.

• Settings for wind etc, are set to minimal
• Trim settings are all good.
• I've got a split throttle and have tried controlling movement with this method as well, but I get the same result as when I'm using break & rudder control. I haven't given this a lot of time, so will try to master this a little more.
• I've tried every method for the same result. Starting slow and building up to starting at full power. Same result. The smallest adjustment has an exponentially greater effect as the speed increases.
• I've set the mission to have a hot start from the runway, so assuming the tail wheel is straight. I will check. But this shouldn't matter as I should be able to correct this without killing myself.

I'll keep plugging away until I break this beast!

Nil wind. Nil stores. 100% fuel.

Default trim. E1/A0/R0. 3000 rpm.

Brakes on. Full power briskly and immediately brakes off. Don't touch the brakes again.

Mosquito will track the runway without further use of rudder or stick.

At lift-off, plane will attempt to roll and turn to left. Anticipate this and apply stick and rudder to correct.

Shallow climb to safety speed, reduce power and trim to relieve stick and rudder forces.

 

GL..

[Michael Taylor]

17 hours ago, Holbeach said:

Nil wind. Nil stores. 100% fuel.

Default trim. E1/A0/R0. 3000 rpm.

Brakes on. Full power briskly and immediately brakes off. Don't touch the brakes again.

Mosquito will track the runway without further use of rudder or stick.

At lift-off, plane will attempt to roll and turn to left. Anticipate this and apply stick and rudder to correct.

Shallow climb to safety speed, reduce power and trim to relieve stick and rudder forces.

 

GL..

Hey, thanks for the input.

When you say "Nil Stores" I'm not sure what you're referring to. Bomb load?

[Michael Taylor]

I have not been on DCS for that long (6 months), so I am open to input. I specifically joined to fly WW2 planes as I find these so much more interesting & had previously been flying IL2 sim for years. The first plane I invested in was the P47-D which has been great. When I looked at the overall experience based on this plane I was has blown away and hooked. The other investments not so much. My first question is:

1. Is the WW2 genre a secondary focus?

Just asking. Would love to see a Yorktown class carrier with appropriate craft and maybe some more WW2 maps.

The object of a flight simulator is to try to model the real-world experience as much as possible. I have a real problem with the Mosquito. There is no way that it could be this hard to handle on the ground or we would have lost every second crew that took off on a mission. I'm sure that there is some magic formula that can be concocted, given the moons position and the alignment of the stars, but this is not the way it's supposed to be. Difficult yes, but also logical. I believe that there is something wrong in the basic modelling of the Mosquito. 

Q2. Do we see patch updates for specific models such as the Mosquito to fix issues such as the ground control we see (I think the Spitfire has the same modelling, but you get to take off before the problem hits). 

Now I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who have mastered this plane that will be saying "suck it up and go through the pain I went through", but like I said before, this should not be a magic formula, it should be a method. From the replies I have received, there have been ways individuals have worked around the problem, but it does not appear to be much of a consistent method/procedure. 

Like I said, I'm new and am open to any input which will help me understand more about how this whole DCS world works. 

Cheers 

[razo+r]

1) Yes and no. There is a smaller dedicated team working on it. So kind of secondary for the company I guess but not secondary for that team. 

 

2) Yes, we do get specific fixes to reported bugs. But they need to be reported in order to get fixed. 

[Holbeach]

3 hours ago, Michael Taylor said:

Hey, thanks for the input.

When you say "Nil Stores" I'm not sure what you're referring to. Bomb load?

I'm tring to keep it as basic as possible for you, so no bombs, no wind and no fiddling with trimmers.

Start on the runway will ensure a straight tail wheel. Hold brakes will ensure a straight launch and rudder use will be minimal

Here are some vids at different weights, all using the same basic idea.

Practice, practice.

..