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[Czechnology]

11 minutes ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

I'm honestly a little surprised that they don't just release the first "late" variant of the F-4E as preorder, and add the early variant in afterwards in a patch, to be honest. I wouldn't mind that... the late variant has a similar RWR to the A-10 speaking from memory.

 

I mean honestly I'm a lot more interested in the early variant, I'll probably be sticking to it near exclusively, save for at least trying the new variant when it drops.

[Horns]

I have to admit that I’m a little disappointed that we only get confirmation of this delay thanks to @Czechnology’s efforts. After @Cobra847 had said they were still hoping to get the F-4 out by the end of this year, an official announcement once they knew they’d miss the timeline would have been nice. Anyhow, let’s look forward to Phantom Twenty Phree.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Horns
Typo

[Aussie_Mantis]

4 minutes ago, Czechnology said:

I mean honestly I'm a lot more interested in the early variant, I'll probably be sticking to it near exclusively, save for at least trying the new variant when it drops.

I mean, same. I do want to kick MiG arse with the older Phantom Variant... see, War Thunder has a trash tier F-4E and MiG-21/23. I'm switching to DCS because I wanted to fly a proper Phantom like I used to with FSX and SF2.

Oh, and did you see my response to your missile question?

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Aussie_Mantis

[Stackup]

2 hours ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

I'm honestly a little surprised that they don't just release the first "late" variant of the F-4E as preorder, and add the early variant in afterwards in a patch, to be honest.

Pretty sure they plan to do that the other way around and plan to release the early F-4 first and then add the late/DMAS F-4 later.  I don't remember where I saw that though.  The FAQ says it will be like the F-14 release so at minimum they are releasing one first and then the other variant sometime after.

[Aussie_Mantis]

38 minutes ago, Stackup said:

Pretty sure they plan to do that the other way around and plan to release the early F-4 first and then add the late/DMAS F-4 later.  I don't remember where I saw that though.  The FAQ says it will be like the F-14 release so at minimum they are releasing one first and then the other variant sometime after.

why, though? Didn't they release the later F-14 first before early F-14?

Also, wouldn't it be much more simpler to just release the late one?? Weapons and avionics are pre much the same as on modern US planes after all...

Edited December 19, 2022 by Aussie_Mantis

[Czechnology]

20 minutes ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

why, though? Didn't they release the later F-14 first before early F-14?

Also, wouldn't it be much more simpler to just release the late one?? Weapons and avionics are pre much the same as on modern US planes after all...

 

I'm sure to an extent it's because of all the cross compatibility they'll have to deal with. The late F-4 is still going to have a lot of the unique systems, flight characteristics, and unique weapons available to it that the early will have. 
With all that in mind, building it from the ground up with all that uniqueness to it means that doing the later one will be an easier part swap rather than having to go back and make even more unique pieces. Though at the same time it could be argued that it works the same way in inverse. I think ultimately both would of suffered from the issues we're getting right now, and that the difference in development time wouldn't have differed that much, so it was probably a decision based on wanting to put out a plane from a rarely explored (on the BLUFOR side, anyways) time period.

2 hours ago, Horns said:

I have to admit that I’ma little disappointed that we only get confirmation of this delay thanks to @Czechnology’s efforts. After @Cobra847 had said they were still hoping to get the F-4 out by the end of this year, an official announcement once they knew they’d miss the timeline would have been nice. Anyhow, let’s look forward to Phantom Twenty Phree.

This isn't confirmation persay, but it doesn't paint a pretty picture to be certain. Bringing up they are having issues with one of the systems, their """time limit""" is up in (at this time) 12 days.

[WinterH]

I seem to recall HB saying somewhere, at some point, that we'll first get the earlier variant, and DMAS bird will follow later. Personally I am very interested in both, but just a little more in the earlier variant, and I do think it is the somewhat better choice as the first bird to release.

Also, you guys really need to come to terms with it not being a 2022 release, just a suggestion

5 hours ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

Also, wouldn't it be much more simpler to just release the late one?? Weapons and avionics are pre much the same as on modern US planes after all...

Honestly, not sure about that. I'd say relatively few of the systems are common with later aircraft, and unless a system is shared with a product of the same dev, it is probably not as much of a shortcut just because it may exist in another aircraft in DCS. As for the weapons, there is little that is going to be uniquely in DMAS but not in the earlier bird. Only ones I can think of are GBU-15, it's datalink pod, and Pave Tack TGP, and HB back during the reveal last year said that they want to do Pave Tack for DMAS bird but it wasn't fully certain yet. If anything, these weapons are the things we don't have in any DCS module yet, while the rest of the arsenal is pretty much there in DCS already. Now, there are also a few things like AIM-7Ms and AIM-9L and/or Ms that may or may not have been a thing for F-4E, but these don't seem to be a certainty for the module yet anyway.

[Aussie_Mantis]

4 minutes ago, WinterH said:

I seem to recall HB saying somewhere, at some point, that we'll first get the earlier variant, and DMAS bird will follow later. Personally I am very interested in both, but just a little more in the earlier variant, and I do think it is the somewhat better choice as the first bird to release.

Also, you guys really need to come to terms with it not being a 2022 release, just a suggestion

Honestly, not sure about that. I'd say relatively few of the systems are common with later aircraft, and unless a system is shared with a product of the same dev, it is probably not as much of a shortcut just because it may exist in another aircraft in DCS. As for the weapons, there is little that is going to be uniquely in DMAS but not in the earlier bird. Only ones I can think of are GBU-15, it's datalink pod, and Pave Tack TGP, and HB back during the reveal last year said that they want to do Pave Tack for DMAS bird but it wasn't fully certain yet. If anything, these weapons are the things we don't have in any DCS module yet, while the rest of the arsenal is pretty much there in DCS already. Now, there are also a few things like AIM-7Ms and AIM-9L and/or Ms that may or may not have been a thing for F-4E, but these don't seem to be a certainty for the module yet anyway.

Unique stuff we won't get:

- AGM-65D
- CAA Computer Assisted Acquisition (helps with boresight against ground clutter)
- AGM-88 (possibly)
- CBU-87, GBU-24, etc etc
- Pave Tack
- ECM Pods more advanced than AN/ALQ-131
- AIM-9L/M/P-3/P-5
- AIM-7F/M/MH/P
- Chaff/flare dispensers possibly (F-4E flare dispensers were introduced in 1978, before then it was chaff only)
- Some other stuff that I don't remember off the top of my head but I'm sure is probably important.

We however will get funny USN bombs and stuff because earlier F-4Es carried those. Why? They stole them or took them from USN stocks, e.g. Walleyes, Mk 20 Rockeyes, etc... that is, if the example of F-4Ds flying with USN GBUs and F-4Es in Vietnam with USN CBUs is to be believed.

 

[WinterH]

12 minutes ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

Unique stuff we won't get:

- AGM-65D
- CAA Computer Assisted Acquisition (helps with boresight against ground clutter)
- AGM-88 (possibly)
- CBU-87, GBU-24, etc etc
- Pave Tack
- ECM Pods more advanced than AN/ALQ-131
- AIM-9L/M/P-3/P-5
- AIM-7F/M/MH/P
- Chaff/flare dispensers possibly (F-4E flare dispensers were introduced in 1978, before then it was chaff only)
- Some other stuff that I don't remember off the top of my head but I'm sure is probably important.

We however will get funny USN bombs and stuff because earlier F-4Es carried those. Why? They stole them or took them from USN stocks, e.g. Walleyes, Mk 20 Rockeyes, etc... that is, if the example of F-4Ds flying with USN GBUs and F-4Es in Vietnam with USN CBUs is to be believed.

 

Pretty sure AGM-65D isn't DMAS only, do you have a source specifically say so? I seem to recall it listed for pre-DMAS airframes too in the manuals I saw. AGM-88 frankly shouldn't be in DMAS either pretty sure. It is as far as I know a F-4G only thing. Pave Tack I've already listed, AIM-7F also almost sure isn't DMAS only, P-4 and P-5 don't require any updates on the airframe I'd think, so again I'd like to see conclusive evidence of them being DMAS only if possible. As for the L/M Sidewinders and M Sparrows, it still seems contentious whether they are going to be a thing on Phantom E or not, including the DMAS. Even in DMAS manuals I didn't see any mention of a Sparrow after F.

Also Walleyes? You sure? Don't think we'll get them myself to be honest. Even the earlier bird we'll get isn't quite a properly Vietnam era bird after all.

Really, not convinced that DMAS is going to have more in common with later birds, at least enough to make it an easier development.

[Aussie_Mantis]

8 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Pretty sure AGM-65D isn't DMAS only, do you have a source specifically say so? I seem to recall it listed for pre-DMAS airframes too in the manuals I saw. AGM-88 frankly shouldn't be in DMAS either pretty sure. It is as far as I know a F-4G only thing. Pave Tack I've already listed, AIM-7F also almost sure isn't DMAS only, P-4 and P-5 don't require any updates on the airframe I'd think, so again I'd like to see conclusive evidence of them being DMAS only if possible. As for the L/M Sidewinders and M Sparrows, it still seems contentious whether they are going to be a thing on Phantom E or not, including the DMAS. Even in DMAS manuals I didn't see any mention of a Sparrow after F.

Also Walleyes? You sure? Don't think we'll get them myself to be honest. Even the earlier bird we'll get isn't quite a properly Vietnam era bird after all.

Really, not convinced that DMAS is going to have more in common with later birds, at least enough to make it an easier development.

Very sure.

GBU-8s and GBU-9 HOBOS sets otherwise.

Or alternatively, The Funny(!!!)

Yes, it's a laser-guided cluster bomb. Don't ask.null

[Aussie_Mantis]

1 hour ago, WinterH said:

Pretty sure AGM-65D isn't DMAS only, do you have a source specifically say so? I seem to recall it listed for pre-DMAS airframes too in the manuals I saw. AGM-88 frankly shouldn't be in DMAS either pretty sure. It is as far as I know a F-4G only thing. Pave Tack I've already listed, AIM-7F also almost sure isn't DMAS only, P-4 and P-5 don't require any updates on the airframe I'd think, so again I'd like to see conclusive evidence of them being DMAS only if possible. As for the L/M Sidewinders and M Sparrows, it still seems contentious whether they are going to be a thing on Phantom E or not, including the DMAS. Even in DMAS manuals I didn't see any mention of a Sparrow after F.

Also Walleyes? You sure? Don't think we'll get them myself to be honest. Even the earlier bird we'll get isn't quite a properly Vietnam era bird after all.

Really, not convinced that DMAS is going to have more in common with later birds, at least enough to make it an easier development.

also, did a little more digging- the "early" variant'll have enough in common with Rivet Haste F-4Es with 5-5-6 mod, 9Js, 7E-2, TISEO, AN/APR-25/36 sets, as deployed in '72 for OP Linebacker II.

[WinterH]

19 minutes ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

also, did a little more digging- the "early" variant'll have enough in common with Rivet Haste F-4Es with 5-5-6 mod, 9Js, 7E-2, TISEO, AN/APR-25/36 sets, as deployed in '72 for OP Linebacker II.

I think HB said DMAS one would have TISEO and the first one would not, and that'd be my preference too. It'll be close enough to be "backdated" to Vietnam with only using 7E-2 and appropriate Sidewinders etc as far as I know.

[Horns]

6 hours ago, Czechnology said:

This isn't confirmation persay, but it doesn't paint a pretty picture to be certain. Bringing up they are having issues with one of the systems, their """time limit""" is up in (at this time) 12 days.

True, I misspoke. I probably should have said something like "this is the closest thing we've had to confirmation". Given that the presale window alone would take us into '23 even if they announced it tomorrow, I think WinterH might have a point 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Horns
Added last sentence

[Aussie_Mantis]

2 hours ago, WinterH said:

I think HB said DMAS one would have TISEO and the first one would not, and that'd be my preference too. It'll be close enough to be "backdated" to Vietnam with only using 7E-2 and appropriate Sidewinders etc as far as I know.

FAQ here on this very forum says both have TISEO.

 

Quote

A: The first release will be DCS: F-4E, the iconic land based variant of the Phantom. We will be launching two variants of the -E; a “classic era” F-4E (blocks 36-45 with updates retrofitted in 1974 and before, including new slats, DSCG and AGM-65) as well as an upgraded (DMAS) version of the aircraft in one package.

wait, no, never mind, I'm tripping off sleep deprivation and you're right. Blocks 36-45 are the ones without TISEO. but did recieve slats, CCRP (DSCG) and Mavericks under various technical orders, as well as the good ol' 556 mod letting you have a real HOTAS on your Real Planes^tm where all the weapons functions were on your throttle or stick.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Aussie_Mantis

[Stackup]

11 hours ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

Didn't they release the later F-14 first before early F-14?

Technically they haven't released the early F-14 yet.  That is still delayed for the same reason as the F-4, the RWR feature as stated in that Facebook comment.  The difference between the two F-14's as we have them now is the A model has TF-30 engines and the B model has the newer GE F-110 engines.  Since both are 90's Tomcats equipped with LANTIRN capabilities for the A/G role, their systems are basically identical.  The differences between the two F-4's is going to be more significant than an engine swap so I expect that either way it would still take a lot of time to develop the first variant no matter which option they chose because apart from the weapons, they can't reuse stuff from other aircraft they did not develop.

[Czechnology]

Not found by me originally, but this is on the Eagle Dynamics Facebook page. Posting here for those who don't check the pinned thread

[Czechnology]

A good sign to be sure.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Czechnology

[_BringTheReign_]

Wow that's amazing!! 

[Bremspropeller]

Will theF-4 come witha record-player instead of a walkman?

[G.J.S]

3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Will theF-4 come witha record-player instead of a walkman?

 

[Spurts]

No, that's for when they do a B-25 Module (Carrier Compatable)

[Oesau]

8 track would be the go

[_BringTheReign_]

38 minutes ago, Oesau said:

8 track would be the go

100% this is the way

[WarbossPetross]

I was thinking more of a secret frequency that you could dial on an ADF for, y'know, navigation reasons when the brass isn't looking...

 

[Omega417]

2 hours ago, WarbossPetross said:

I was thinking more of a secret frequency that you could dial on an ADF for, y'know, navigation reasons when the brass isn't looking...

I give the module 90 minutes before the first video with vietnam music shows up on youtube.