It'd be nice to get some feedback when you overspeed the flaps.

[Inf]

I think the hydraulics sever if you bring the flaps down when you're too fast? I don't know how realistic it is, but imo it'd be nice to have something happen when you do this. A little boom or even Jester call it out? Just so we know if we have to do a repair or not once we touch down.

[Despayre]

Don't they get stuck down, and then you can't sweep the wings? That feels like a clue... of course, I've never done that, that's just what I've heard...

Also, regardless of where you set the flaps to be, they will still show as down on your panel. Clue #2.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Despayre

[Spurts]

The torque tube snaps, not a hydraulic line.  It is realistic.  And as Despayre points out the inability to bring them up, the inability to sweep, and speeds over 400kts feel like going down a mountain in a wheelbarrow are all clues that it happened.

Is this happening during landing or have you watched too many Growling Sidewinder vids and you are trying to use them for dogfighting?

In the case of the former, I never drop flaps until I am under 200KIAS.

In the case of the later, never try and use full flaps on the Tomcat until you have spent enough time in it to know you almost never need them.  level turn under 200KIAS and near max AoA or under 200KIAS and going over the top vertically.  I pull them back in as soon as I stop pulling hard or as soon as my nose starts to cross the horizon or as soon as Jester calls a speed above 180.

[draconus]

They can also get stuck asymmetrically so you'll have a hard time trimming it out while thinking what happened.

[Inf]

I know that you can deduce the problem by checking the external camera and wiggling the flaps around...I'm just saying It'd be a nicer experience if there was some kind of feedback for taking the damage. Both so you don't have to troubleshoot and check it each time, and also help train players that breaking their flaps is a thing, and they should avoid it.

I've usually done it when I'm coming in to trap, obviously lowering them too soon, too fast. But there's been plenty of times when I've trapped, refueled, left the wings out and flaps down, launched again and THEN realized I'd broken my flaps on the approach. Calling out the damage some way would be nice.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Inf
grammar

[AH_Solid_Snake]

Theres a little light by your right knee?

Edited August 22, 2022 by AH_Solid_Snake

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Inf said:

I'm just saying It'd be a nicer experience if there was some kind of feedback for taking the damage.

Adding anything more of what was already said would be unrealistic.

[Inf]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

Adding anything more of what was already said would be unrealistic.

You don't think the plane would jolt, or there'd be a sound, or the crew would notice it happen when it snaps?

[lunaticfringe]

1 hour ago, Inf said:

You don't think the plane would jolt, or there'd be a sound, or the crew would notice it happen when it snaps?

Do I think an internal wing torque tube failure roughly 30 feet from the nearest crew member is going to make a sound audible in the loud environment of the cockpit when a control surface is frozen in an extended postion?  

No, I don't.  It's like overtorquing the head of a cheap bolt with a breaker bar until the point it shears off.  The bolt didn't make a sound, and depending on how many ft/lbs it took, you or the wrench might not even go far, either. Further, the aerodynamic loads at the breaking point aren't substantially different than those in its normal operating position, and more importantly- the wing was originally engineered to be open roughly 0.2 Mach higher in the schedule at near full unsweep than it was reprogrammed for in the mid-70s (you can see this by comparing the schedule in the initial F-14A -1 against that from later documents). 

That is to say- while the flap torque tubes can't deal with the load required to draw back in, the wing as an assembly was designed to withstand higher unswept loads without substantial vibration or loss of control authority. It's not until the aircraft reaches even higher speeds before things start to get hairy. 

The FLAP light is on.  Master Caution is on.  You can't manually sweep the wings back.  The flaps indicator is frozen marking down. The airplane won't accelerate through the Mach, and it starts bouncing once you start putting real knots on it (DCS starts with substantial vibrations as low as 280 knots/Mach 0.6 at 15,000').  How much more indication that you broke it do you need?  The instant you try to go somewhere fast- or, as you say, configure the jet properly for landing (manual aft), or even just do a good post-combat cycle, you can tell its broken.  

Edited August 22, 2022 by lunaticfringe

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Inf:

I know that you can deduce the problem by checking the external camera and wiggling the flaps around...I'm just saying It'd be a nicer experience if there was some kind of feedback for taking the damage. Both so you don't have to troubleshoot and check it each time, and also help train players that breaking their flaps is a thing, and they should avoid it.

I've usually done it when I'm coming in to trap, obviously lowering them too soon, too fast. But there's been plenty of times when I've trapped, refueled, left the wings out and flaps down, launched again and THEN realized I'd broken my flaps on the approach. Calling out the damage some way would be nice.

 

Easy fix for you: follow proper procedures! 

Don't taxi with your wings fully extended. If they don't come back after you've commanded them, your flaps are still down. If you can't raise the flaps, you broke them.

Easiest way to "deduce" you've broken your flaps in flight? Just look over your shoulder. You can see if they're extended. If you can't raise them, chances are good they're stuck.

Easy way to not break them: keep them up over 225 KIAS.

The only time I've ever over sped the flaps was during an air start, when I forgot to adjust the wheel on my throttle from a previous flight in a different module (use the same wheel for radar elevation). Otherwise, never had that problem.

In the end, it's your game, so play it any way you want to.

But don't expect much sympathy around these parts for "bothering" HB to add features to accommodate your (unrealistic) playstyle, at the expense of much more pressing issues with regards to the F-14 (not to mention the multitude of other projects HB has to attend to). Also, I would argue that this particular issue is waaaaay down on the "nice to have priority list" for most customers. 

 

[RustBelt]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:51 AM, lunaticfringe said:

Master Caution is on.

Well, I mean, at night you can tell it’s on….

[IronMike]

The request in itself imo is totally fine. We do so in many things, like snapping a hook. Now, snapping a hook and getting your flaps stuck ofc are events of a very different intensity, that is one part of it. But the other is also: in this case letting you know the flaps got stuck say through a "snap sound", won't change or add anything to the gameplay. To the contrary imo - arguing now outside the fact that it is fairly unrealistic - it would help virtual pilots to be more complacent. This goes against the idea of cockpit awareness and following procedures.

There is one excellent indicator for this: 225kts indicated. It's much better in this case, imo - given the fact that you get warning lights - to compell the player to look out for the airspeed indicator than to listen to whether the flaps broke or not, as it would be too late by then anyway. So the moment of hearing it teaches you little. Of course, in the hook's case it is also too late. But that's when you really need to know that it is too late, aka usually unforeseen emergency, vs keeping an eye out to not let it get too late when observing your airspeed during take off or landing operations.

[Inf]

On 8/25/2022 at 6:11 AM, IronMike said:

But the other is also: in this case letting you know the flaps got stuck say through a "snap sound", won't change or add anything to the gameplay. To the contrary imo - arguing now outside the fact that it is fairly unrealistic - it would help virtual pilots to be more complacent. This goes against the idea of cockpit awareness and following procedures.

Hey IronMike. I think I respectfully disagree there! ...if a new player is coming in to land, drop their flaps when they're stupidly too fast, there's a jolt and a sound (or *something* happens), they immediately know they've messed up. They know "i dropped my flaps and broke them!" And they can guess it's because they're too fast. They won't do that again, and they'll know to check their IAS next time. A reinforced lesson kind of is gameplay imo. At the moment they've broken their plane but won't find out until they land, if they check the external camera or try to take off again.

I honestly didn't expect the *salt* this thread would generate though (I'm new here) and if it's totally unrealistic and it silently fails IRL then cool, I don't really mind.

[Frosty2124]

48 minutes ago, Inf said:

Hey IronMike. I think I respectfully disagree there! ...if a new player is coming in to land, drop their flaps when they're stupidly too fast, there's a jolt and a sound (or *something* happens), they immediately know they've messed up. They know "i dropped my flaps and broke them!" And they can guess it's because they're too fast. They won't do that again, and they'll know to check their IAS next time. A reinforced lesson kind of is gameplay imo. At the moment they've broken their plane but won't find out until they land, if they check the external camera or try to take off again.

I honestly didn't expect the *salt* this thread would generate though (I'm new here) and if it's totally unrealistic and it silently fails IRL then cool, I don't really mind.

i get the direction you're coming from, but there is plenty of information out there already. the f-14 is full fidelity, you could make an argument that it could be "study level" (this is a simulator after all). One of the main focuses of aviation is checklists and processes. the reference docs are there for a reason. I always recommend that one of the first things new pilots study and commit to memory is V speeds for all phases of flight, with an emphasis on landing... for everything else there's mastercar.......checklists and reference tables one of the big learning moments i had when coming to the 14 from 10,000+ hours on the bug is that you need a higher awareness of your airspeed, as i personally find that the bug pushes the information to you (HMCS, HUD, etc) whereas the cat needs you to get your cockpit management down.

whilst i would never discourage anyone from buying an older aircraft as a first module due to its challenge, i would always advise that there is an increased level of management, process flow and study that might be required to fully master the jet.

to use the flaps as an example, in the bug you wont get flaps if you are too fast, even if commanded whereas in the cat, as it appears you may have already experienced gives you flaps whenever you want them (sweep notwithstanding).

one thing i would advise is to learn about the instrument six pack, and then get used to navigating the six pack and it will quickly become second nature. and you'll soon be dancing the Attitude, Altitude, Airspeed waltz.

as far as the salt goes, it is my experience that when very experienced people deal with similar questions everyday it can become frustrating. ultimately i believe there needs to be a degree of empathy from both sides, i have to admit that even i am guilty of forgetting that i used to be where you were many years ago. i only to where i am because my "stupid" questions were answered by people with both experience and patience. but newer people should understanding of the frustrations of answering the same questions over and over again.

that said, i'm happy to help you any way i can to understand what is a truly beautiful aircraft to fly.