reported FW 190 D9 Engine Issue *again*

[eagle 1-1]

I just notice today for three sorties in a row , the D9 engine bug may be back. It always happens when Im in a dive and I cut throttle , after the dive and increasing RPM the engine goes numb and start losing power.  Normally I cruise at 2500 RPM and alternate in combat between 3000 - 3250 RPM ( not MW50 ) . In one occasion after cruising at 2500 RPM , I decide to increase power and climb, Immediately the engine went numb and power started to decreased .  My oil and coolant temperature never exceeded the limit in any of those cases and the MW50 switch was in off position.

**This is a record video of the Issue** : 

 

[Hobel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb eagle 1-1:

I just notice today for three sorties in a row , the D9 engine bug may be back. It always happens when Im in a dive and I cut throttle , after the dive and increasing RPM the engine goes numb and start losing power.  Normally I cruise at 2500 RPM and alternate in combat between 3000 - 3250 RPM ( not MW50 ) . In one occasion after cruising at 2500 RPM , I decide to increase power and climb, Immediately the engine went numb and power started to decreased .  My oil and coolant temperature never exceeded the limit in any of those cases and the MW50 switch was in off position.

**This is a record video of the Issue** : 

 

I will try to reproduce this tonight.

thanks for the hint.

[ITA_WVoss]

5 ore fa, eagle 1-1 ha scritto:

Ho appena notato che oggi per tre sortite di fila, il bug del motore D9 potrebbe essere tornato. Succede sempre quando sono in immersione e taglio l'acceleratore, dopo l'immersione e aumentando il numero di giri il motore si intorpidisce e inizia a perdere potenza. Normalmente navigo a 2500 RPM e alterno in combattimento tra 3000 e 3250 RPM (non MW50). In un'occasione dopo aver girato a 2500 giri, decido di aumentare la potenza e salire, immediatamente il motore è diventato insensibile e la potenza ha iniziato a diminuire. La mia temperatura dell'olio e del liquido di raffreddamento non ha mai superato il limite in nessuno di questi casi e l'interruttore MW50 era in posizione off.

**Questo è un video di registrazione del problema**: 

 

I confirm what has been reported, I made a multiplayer mission a few minutes ago, I was at 3000m. and I slightly decreased the throttle to strike at the end of the flare I gradually re-throttled but the engine lost power without regaining it, settling at around 2200 RPM. I was without MW50 and the switch was in the OFF position.

Edited August 27, 2022 by ITA_WVoss

[grafspee]

Poor dora

[Hobel]

How did you proceed when starting, did you preheat the engine as described in the manual?
The update may have added new types of damage, so we have to rule out anything like that.

[saburo_cz]

Unfortunately eagle 1-1 is right.

After 20 minutes long flight (3000 RPM) and proper engine starting with waiting for engine teperature, the engine lost power.

 

[Hobel]

Can you upload a track of it when it happens again, or do you have any? A video would also be helpful.

I haven't been able to recreate the whole thing yet, but I have made an observation.

 my first guess would be the oil temperature.
It is sometimes below 110°C at cruising speed ~2600or more. (Normal 110-130).

Maybe the engine is damaged by this, but nothing has happened to me yet.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Hobel

[amazingme]

All fine and dandy, then the engine decided to quit..

L.E. The track has 75MB, so I uploaded it to wetransfer: https://we.tl/t-OJhX6NBX6k 

Edited August 27, 2022 by amazingme
Added track

[Hobel]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb amazingme:

All fine and dandy, then the engine decided to quit..

 

 

track?

 

thx i look

Edited August 27, 2022 by Hobel

[Hobel]

OK, I had the same error.

My suspicion is still on the oil, it probably doesn't get warm enough?
but if that's what it is, we need to investigate more, but at least I know roughly how to create the error, the track file has helped me a lot, thanks

D9 engine bug.trk

[eagle 1-1]

Engine Warmup

1. With closed cooling flaps run engine at about 1000…1200 RPM until oil entry temperature reaches 40°C.

2. Slowly increase towards 1800 RPM, until coolant exit temperature has reached 60-70°C.

I had always follow this and adding that I never exceeded the engine from 1500 RPM to prevent coolant loses .  

I believe is something damaging the propelle pitch governator of the engine too, because after the damage I put the plane into a hard dive  and the RPM went pass 3250 with an ata of 1.9.

[Hobel]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb eagle 1-1:

Engine Warmup

1. With closed cooling flaps run engine at about 1000…1200 RPM until oil entry temperature reaches 40°C.

2. Slowly increase towards 1800 RPM, until coolant exit temperature has reached 60-70°C.

I had always follow this and adding that I never exceeded the engine from 1500 RPM to prevent coolant loses .  

I believe is something damaging the propelle pitch governator of the engine too, because after the damage I put the plane into a hard dive  and the RPM went pass 3250 with an ata of 1.9.

exactly, that's what we've all done so far.

try to warm up the engine longer and observe if the error still occurs

[grafspee]

10 hours ago, amazingme said:

All fine and dandy, then the engine decided to quit..

L.E. The track has 75MB, so I uploaded it to wetransfer: https://we.tl/t-OJhX6NBX6k 

 

Are you running MGB in emergency mode, because those ATA vs rpm figures are way off 1.7ATA at 3000rpm and 1.55 and 2600rpm way too much ATA for those rpms. And unfortunately i can't see temps

Edited August 28, 2022 by grafspee

[grafspee]

6 hours ago, eagle 1-1 said:

I believe is something damaging the propelle pitch governator of the engine too, because after the damage I put the plane into a hard dive  and the RPM went pass 3250 with an ata of 1.9.

Dora was doing that before this updated too, in very high speed dive engine was over revving, due to governor hitting pitch limit on the prop.

[Hobel]

vor einer Stunde schrieb grafspee:

Are you running MGB in emergency mode, because those ATA vs rpm figures are way off 1.7ATA at 3000rpm and 1.55 and 2600rpm way too much ATA for those rpms. And unfortunately i can't see temps

 

could you also look at both tracks again if you have time?

in his track the error appears in the 2 flight
with my track sometime after 30min

[B4ron]

+1

The engine did not seize completely when I went into a dive at about 2700rpm but lost its power. I was able to make it back to the airfield with reduced power. @Night Owl and others also reported engine issues on discord but with the engine completely dying after throttling back from 3000rpm to 2700rpm.

Edited August 28, 2022 by B4ron

[Hobel]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb B4ron:

+1

The engine did not seize completely when I went into a dive at about 2700rpm but lost its power. I was able to make it back to the airfield with reduced power.

do you still have a track file of this?

[B4ron]

Unfortunately not myself since I disabled track recording. I can ask on discord...

[Night Owl]

I also had this engine malfunction in both of my last flight in the Dora. 

Settings in my last flight:

Warm-up at first 1000rpm till 40 degrees oil temperature

Increase rpm to 1800 and warm-up till coolant temperature at 90 degrees

Takeoff 3250 rpm

Climb to 6000m at 3000rpm

Few minutes cruise at 2700rpm level

2min at 3000rpm

Reduced back to 2700rpm (shlight undershot to 2600rpm momentarily

Few minutes later engine lost power and could not be brought higher than 1500rpm except in a high speed dive

Temperatures were in the green all the time. 

 

I'll try to create a track next time

[Hobel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Night Owl:

I also had this engine malfunction in both of my last flight in the Dora. 

Settings in my last flight:

Warm-up at first 1000rpm till 40 degrees oil temperature

Increase rpm to 1800 and warm-up till coolant temperature at 90 degrees

Takeoff 3250 rpm

Climb to 6000m at 3000rpm

Few minutes cruise at 2700rpm level

2min at 3000rpm

Reduced back to 2700rpm (shlight undershot to 2600rpm momentarily

Few minutes later engine lost power and could not be brought higher than 1500rpm except in a high speed dive

Temperatures were in the green all the time. 

 

I'll try to create a track next time

What were the temperatures outside?

 

 

24 and min 25 the engine dies:

D9 engine bug 24 DIE.trkD9 engine bug 25 DIE.trk

Edit: the engine always stalls at 3000rpm almost at the same point ~15minD9 engine bug ~24 DIE.trk

 

EDIT2:

the engine loses power here at 2700.

i also do not see yet work around could look like

D9 first engine crack ~22,30 Mission end 30min.trk

This is how it started:

and so it continued:

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Hobel

[Night Owl]

@Hobel

The ambient temperature was 19°C.

I found the track file if that helps. Uploaded it to a wetransfer due to it's size https://we.tl/t-fC734GvyKd 
The engine malfunction occurs around 25 min into the track at mission time 16:41.

[Hobel]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb Night Owl:

@Hobel

The ambient temperature was 19°C.

I found the track file if that helps. Uploaded it to a wetransfer due to it's size https://we.tl/t-fC734GvyKd 
The engine malfunction occurs around 25 min into the track at mission time 16:41.

OK, exactly like mine.thx

Edited August 28, 2022 by Hobel

[Night Owl]

I have just repeated a similar flight, but being more careful during warm-up and to not over- or under-shoot the desired engine settings. Same outcome, after a couple of minutes cruise at 2700rpm the engine looses all power. 

I have the feeling the temperatures may be a little too low across the board, maybe it's an issue with over-cooling with the new cooling mechanics?

[grafspee]

Someone was right, it is prop governor which fails here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/141XT5SAXAWiroQNAEaI-HnV8LGN1dS14/view?usp=sharing

This is my track, what happen to me was not engine fail but it could be MGB or governor fail, Engine was running fine but prop pitch was stuck at 47 degrees which resulted in very low engine rpm in flight, i managed to land DORA i shut engine off and i managed to restart it so engine it self looked fine.

I hope that ED will address this issue quickly, it looks like the bug even worse then this old engine fail bug, i just hope we won't have to wait years for the fix.

At this stage Dora is unflyable again.

Edited August 28, 2022 by grafspee

[Hobel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb grafspee:

Someone was right, it is prop governor which fails here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/141XT5SAXAWiroQNAEaI-HnV8LGN1dS14/view?usp=sharing

This is my track, what happen to me was not engine fail but it could be MGB or governor fail, Engine was running fine but prop pitch was stack at 47 degrees which resulted in very low engine rpm in flight, i managed to land DORA i shut engine off and i managed to restart it so engine it self looked fine.

I hope that ED will address this issue quickly, it looks like the bug even worse then this old engine fail bug, i just hope it won't have to wait years for the fix.

At this stage Dora is unflyable again.

 

Well found, I tested it and it happened to me too, But for me, the pitch is stuck at 45°.