30mm damage to Tanks

[Kiwi68]

Is it even worth using the 30 cannon on Main Battle Tanks ???

 

As I have yet to damage to a tank in this game, even when attacking from behind and high up, I cant even scratch the paint :cry: Hell I would have thought that hitting the engine covers with the AP rounds would damage the engine and immoblise the tanks. :( :protest: :wallbash:

[Boberro]

I don't use cannon against tanks, IMO is too weak. One time I tried and I used all AP and HE cannon and tank still was alive... ;]

[d0ppler]

Yeah, rockets and vikhrs are the only thing I've deployed successfully vs. tanks.

[Shrubbo]

Yes you can do it with 30mm ap rounds but it takes what seems like an eternity to accomplish and they seem to be not very happy about you doing such things :)

[Flanker15]

With the current simple damage system for ground units you can't target precise weak points on tanks so yeah the 30mm won't work.

There are a few spots that the cannon would kockout a M1A2 in real life but not in the game. It proably won't work very well against Bradley armor either, atleast not the front.

[sobek]

There are a few spots that the cannon would kockout a M1A2 in real life but not in the game.

 

Nothing beyond a mobility kill/destroyed optics. The crew might hear you knocking though.

[ronht]

I have found that a vikhrs followed up by cannon fire can be very effective even against abrams. I'm currently finishing up a mission where, because of the low visibility in snow, you are forced to make attack runs on abrams rather than stand off and snipe.

 

Also don't forget that using the "long" burst setting will fire 2 vikhrs at once (with a stable lock-up) and that has the best success rate against main battle tanks.

 

I'll have the new mission out soon.

 

ron

[MBot]

Do you guys have much success with AP munition at all? I have the impression (not very scientific) that HE ammo is more effective even against IFVs.

[bradmick]

A 30mm cannon, at least the ones on a helo, are not generally going to be sufficient to take out a tank. You can maybe hope to track it (immobilize it) but definately not kill it. You have to think, most tanks have around 4 - 6 inches of armor on them, a 30mm HE round can hope to pierce maybe 2 - 3 inches of armor, probably closer to 1 to 2 inches. Rockets are a good candidate, so long as its the right type of rocket. Generally i'm going to just shoot Vikhr's at the tanks, 30mm for APCs and other light armored vehicles, and then rockets or 30mm for soft skinned vehicles. Target/weapon pairing is an important aspect of being a gun pilot, and knowing the capabilities and limitations of each weapon system is the first step to building that knowledge base.

 

Brad

[uhoh7]

I do notice the 30mm AP works very well against tracked artillery. Range makes a great diff against many vehicles, anything but main battle tanks will fall to AP in close strafing.

[wims]

Nothing beyond a mobility kill/destroyed optics. The crew might hear you knocking though.

The turret roof is not very well armored, the 30mm should be able to penetrate it, at least if I were to believe the instructor at the tank training I got when i was in the military.

 

-wims, former tanker

[uhoh7]

I just did some testing.

 

30mm AP wil kill T-55 reliably if you are close and get numerous hits.

 

T-72 and up I could not get any kills (only tested t-72 and t-80)

[geogob]

You might, at best, tickle a MBT with the 30mm. Best case, if the damage model is good, you may damage its optics and save yourself from being hit by a 120mm HE round.

 

AT rockets at range. That the way to do it. Keep the gun for APCs and trucks.

[Kiwi68]

Don't the Abrams engine like to burn if damaged ??

[uhoh7]

You might, at best, tickle a MBT with the 30mm. Best case, if the damage model is good, you may damage its optics and save yourself from being hit by a 120mm HE round.

 

AT rockets at range. That the way to do it. Keep the gun for APCs and trucks.

 

You mean Vikhrs? They go fast. That's why I've been trying to see exactly what the gun can do.

 

Or do you mean Rockets?

 

Also a problem because you have to get close and it's alot easier to miss.

 

Of course, engaging a t-55 w/gun has got to be tricky, since they don't laze and shoot well.

 

I hope someday ED upgrades DM on heavy armor.

[Kula66]

Tanks can't have thick armour everywhere and on the engine deck and turret top they are thin enough for a decent 30mm to get through easily. The 30mm in the BS, while not as good as a A-10s, is certainly more powerful than the M230 in the Apaches. From the front or even side - no chance.

 

I've had resonable success with firing Vikhrs in pairs (singles have little effect) which seems odd - in GW1 TOWs had little trouble with T-72s and a Vikhr is twice the weight, so I would guess has at least comparible armour penetration.

 

I guess this is down the the simple damage model for ground vehicles - I guess we need an Advanced Vehcile Damage Model - AVDM ;)

[EvilBivol-1]

Just ran a test and it took about 150 AP rounds to kill a T-72 from a high rear position at a range of 1 km.

 

Aspect angle matters, because BS accounts for various armor thickness levels and also because AP rounds will generally suffer more ricochet from the sloped frontal armor.

 

Further tuning of the DM and continuous advancements in modeling are of course desirable nonetheless.

[uhoh7]

Just ran a test and it took about 150 AP rounds to kill a T-72 from a high rear position at a range of 1 km.

 

Aspect angle matters, because BS accounts for various armor thickness levels and also because AP rounds will generally suffer more ricochet from the sloped frontal armor.

 

Further tuning of the DM and continuous advancements in modeling are of course desirable nonetheless.

 

I stand corrected, sir.

 

I did not try quite that many rounds straight form the rear.

[MBot]

Has anyone already tested effectivenes of API over HE against IFVs and other medium armored vehicles? Simply from playing I have the impression that HE is completely sufficient for any reasonable target (except MBTs). Which asks the question why to even load and use API at all.

 

Otherwise I will run some tests this evening.

[Feuerfalke]

For MBT's it's not really practical, though no doubt possible (at least in RL where we don't have hitpoints and an immobilized Tank in a battle or even urban environment is dead in most cases)

 

For anything else, though, even BTRs and BMPs, a single HE-hit even from the front usually is enough, though. As it is also very precise, the gun is my weapon of choice if not confronted with tanks.

 

Personal record: 5.2km - 3 single shots fired, one hit, BTR80 exploded. And a lot faster deployed than a Vikhr. :D

[ESA_MistrL]

In real life if you are able to hit the optical an targeting system or the rear or even the chains, the Main Battle Tank could be stopped. I'm not really sure if the damage model is that real.

As far as I remember T72 has reactive armour wich means that an explosive charge on the Tank will react to any hit or explosion on it redirectioning the effects of the explosion or hit towards outside minimizing the damages. Of course the are not completely protected by this reactive ormour.

May be it's not T72 but what I can say without any doubt that many MBT have the reactive armour.

[uhoh7]

 

Personal record: 5.2km - 3 single shots fired, one hit, BTR80 exploded. And a lot faster deployed than a Vikhr. :D

 

I don't get a "C" past about 4.1 k --what do you switch to manual?

 

I do agree the gun works well, I go to low all the time now and often use single shots.

 

Now, the small rockets I hardlly even use. Tonite I watched my wingie put three volleys right on a fixed artillery, and it was fine-- a few canon shots took it right out soon after.

Edited January 19, 2009 by uhoh7

[Feuerfalke]

I don't get a "C" past about 4.1 k --what do you switch to manual?

 

I do agree the gun works well, I go to low all the time now and often use single shots.

 

Now, the small rockets I hardlly even use. Tonite I watched my wingie put three volleys right on a fixed artillery, and it was fine-- a few canon shots took it right out soon after.

 

True. If you're going low and can close in, the gun in combination with the helmet-mounted sight is a real killer.

 

IIRC you can fire without the "c" :gun_rifle:

 

 

Just spray and pray, maybe, but with one hit killing the target, who cares? :D You just have to hold the helo very still and preferably fire one shot a time, so recoil doesn't effect the second shot.

[ZaltysZ]

As far as I remember T72 has reactive armour wich means that an explosive charge on the Tank will react to any hit or explosion on it redirectioning the effects of the explosion or hit towards outside minimizing the damages.

 

Reactive armor is good against single shots, however if something like cannon is enough to "activate" it, then few aimed burst will make large area where all reactive armor will be worn off, however I don't know if 30mm is enough to activate reactive armor.

 

Back to game. I have tried AP rounds against T-55 and Abrams: shot about 70 rounds in close to 90 degrees dive. Although half of them directly hit turret, tanks were not killed. Maybe the armor was too thick or maybe not enough hit points were eaten.

[wolfast]

It proably won't work very well against Bradley armor either, atleast not the front.

AP kills Bradley just fine....