missing evidence Question about sustained turn performance

[oldcrusty]

Raptor could probably do it easily but can the Hornet turn at 470 kts, at 10k feet MSL with 8.5 fuel and 2xAim9X?  Full stick back ~ 6.8G

This is nothing new. I've been wondering about this for a while but usually I stay below 450 during gun fights and at those speeds Hornet bleeds profusely...

Short clip:

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by oldcrusty

[Hulkbust44]

What's the question here?

[oldcrusty]

3 minutes ago, Hulkbust44 said:

What's the question here?

Shouldn't Hornet start bleeding airspeed at full stick back (~7G) at parameters described above?

[Hulkbust44]

Shouldn't Hornet start bleeding airspeed at full stick back (~7G) at parameters described above?

Not at all, you're way too fast. The F-16 even arcs at 450+

[dramabeats]

On 10/8/2022 at 9:15 PM, Hulkbust44 said:

On 10/8/2022 at 7:31 PM, oldcrusty said:

Shouldn't Hornet start bleeding airspeed at full stick back (~7G) at parameters described above?

Not at all, you're way too fast. The F-16 even arcs at 450+

The hornet should bleed at all airspeeds. It shouldnt arc like the viper

 

maybe it will be fixed with the FM update

Edited October 10, 2022 by dramabeats

[oldcrusty]

8 minutes ago, dramabeats said:

The hornet should bleed at all airspeeds. It shouldnt arc like the viper

 

maybe it will be fixed with the FM update

 

With the weight and altitude quoted above, current FCS will allow the DCS Hornet to maintain the airspeed between ~ 550 and 465 knots (or close to it).  The max G is toned down a bit (6.7, 6.8).   Above this a/s and below, the energy will bleed.  This of course changes at different weights and altitudes.

[dramabeats]

6 minutes ago, oldcrusty said:

With the weight and altitude quoted above, current FCS will allow the DCS Hornet to maintain the airspeed between ~ 550 and 465 knots (or close to it).  The max G is toned down a bit (6.7, 6.8).   Above this a/s and below, the energy will bleed.  This of course changes at different weights and altitudes.

ya, its wrong

[BIGNEWY]

As always if you have evidence something is wrong please PM it to me so we can check.

We have mentioned recently in the mini update, following the substantial update to the Viper flight model and FLCS, the team is now focused on the Hornet flight model and FCS. In parallel, important changes are being made to the landing gear and how it behaves at touchdown / touch and goes. This is the primary Hornet task.

[jaguara5]

Any news to share? Can  we have a general info if the rate performance will be changed?

Edited December 20, 2022 by jaguara5

[DukeAngus]

to complain about such  subjects you need to have an understanding of the EM diagrams of the airplane you are talking about, not just a feeling.  its all about how many g's you can pull, at what speed. the fa-18c having the limiter on how many g's it will let you pull, it makes perfect sense that once you get above the curve you wont be able to slow down the train with out getting out of burner.  you dont realize how powerful the military fighter jets are sitting in front of a screen.

@oldcrusty do the same exact thing that you did in the video except this time when you are full aft pitch,  depress the paddle switch which is the nws/autopilot disengage switch.

 

[oldcrusty]

12 hours ago, DukeAngus said:

to complain about such  subjects you need to have an understanding of the EM diagrams of the airplane you are talking about, not just a feeling.  its all about how many g's you can pull, at what speed. the fa-18c having the limiter on how many g's it will let you pull, it makes perfect sense that once you get above the curve you wont be able to slow down the train with out getting out of burner.  you dont realize how powerful the military fighter jets are sitting in front of a screen.

@oldcrusty do the same exact thing that you did in the video except this time when you are full aft pitch,  depress the paddle switch which is the nws/autopilot disengage switch.

 

Yea I know about the paddle, who doesn't these days   .  If that's what EM charts say them all I can do is... post another tribute to my favorite powerhouse:

 

[MARLAN_]

The problem isn't that the F-18 doesn't "bleed" speed, it's that its lacking pitch authority at higher speeds. It's not an energy problem so much as it is a FCS/FM problem, it can't pull hard enough to lose speed and prevent arcing.

You can easily test this by starting at 380 knots, 15000 feet and going into afterburner and performing a split S. In the real world you'd be able to pull hard enough to maintain control of your speed, in DCS you'll end up exiting the turn at 500 knots due to a lack of pitch authority.

Edited December 24, 2022 by MARLAN_

[oldcrusty]

1 hour ago, MARLAN_ said:

The problem isn't that the F-18 doesn't "bleed" speed, it's that its lacking pitch authority at higher speeds. It's not an energy problem so much as it is a FCS/FM problem, it can't pull hard enough to lose speed and prevent arcing.

You can easily test this by starting at 380 knots, 15000 feet and going into afterburner and performing a split S. In the real world you'd be able to pull hard enough to maintain control of your speed, in DCS you'll end up exiting the turn at 500 knots due to a lack of pitch authority.

 

I could swear it did have that authority a (long) while back but... it's all hazy now in my head. All that 'sitting in front of the screen' is not helping either 

[Hulkbust44]

7 hours ago, oldcrusty said:

I could swear it did have that authority a (long) while back but... it's all hazy now in my head. All that 'sitting in front of the screen' is not helping either 

Once upon a time this was still possible as well... 

 

[jaguara5]

 Any news to share about Hornet's FM  update? 

Edited October 4, 2023 by jaguara5