Varjo Aero and 4090

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, TKNARMZ said:

UPDATE!

Im only updating this incase this happens to someone else.  My mistake!  I bought a new motherboard and was going to do a clean install.  Added all 3 SSD cards and was ready with a one of them being a NEW SSD installed and windows on a thumb drive.  but when I booted I forgot to tell it to boot using the thumb drive.  So It loaded my original windows install on the new motherboard and everything seemed fine so I didnt bother with the new install of windows.  

Bought a new 4090 and was using an 850watt power supply.  Everything worked great, even got extremely high scores on 3dmark.  Cyberpunk ran flawlessly along with every single 2D game I tried.  Even DCS in 2D was screaming with everything set to max running 2k I was hitting around 110-120 FPS.  

So I tried VR and I got micro stutters.  I couldnt fix it, tried everything.  I thought maybe its the PSU wattage so I bought a MSI 1000w made for the 4090.  

Hooked up the new PSU and nothing came on, only my ram LED lit up.  I used all the new cables minus the SATA cables.  I honestly didnt think those would be that much different.  I thought maybe its the PSU.  So I went and bought another one.  Same crap.  Finally took one thing at a time off the PSU and I found out it was the SATA cables.  So I replaced them and everything booted up like it should. 

Loaded up DCS and still had the stutters.  I was so frustrated and didnt know what else to do but do a clean install.

The Clean Install did it!  DCS is running amazingly well now in VR.  Im averaging around 50-60 FPS with everything maxed besides the MSAA is set to x2 instead of x4.  I havent tried x4.  

I know better and this should never have happened. SMH

Clean install of what Windows or DCS?

Try my settings if you want 90 fps on those free flights, moving your head inside the cockpit is a stutter free experience at this fps.  I expect to see even better performance after upgrading mobo and CPU this weekend.

Varjo: Very High, Vsync OFF

SteamVR: SS 76% (should read 3144x2696 pixels per screen)

DCS: VR preset but increase ground textures to High, shadows Low,  MSSAx2

Edited October 26, 2022 by Supmua

[TKNARMZ]

Just updated all the chipset drivers and now DCS is stuck at 72 FPS  maxed out MSAA x4.  The game is amazing! loving it.

 

[Supmua]

nullMy ASUS TUF boosted pretty well, up to 3015 MHz, prob not going to push more just to be on the safe side.  Temp is also nice, Tmax at 63 degree.

[Gunnars Driver]

On 10/26/2022 at 11:07 PM, Supmua said:

nullMy ASUS TUF boosted pretty well, up to 3015 MHz, prob not going to push more just to be on the safe side.  Temp is also nice, Tmax at 63 degree.

 

Did you see a big difference with the 4090 (comming from 3090 i I dont remember wrong?). 

[darkman222]

Big difference before the 2.8 update yes. Comming from 3090 to 4090.

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Gunnars Driver said:

Did you see a big difference with the 4090 (comming from 3090 i I dont remember wrong?). 

Yes, upgrading to rtx 4090 allows me to get 90 fps in free flight missions--performance degraded a bit since 2.8 (using my own preset) but with standard VR preset I'm still good there just don't like the image quality.  I never got 90 fps in anything DCS related so it is huge for me.  This wasn't possible with the 3090 due to GPU frametime not strong enough.  I can't describe how good things look at stutter-free 90 fps especially in the cockpit area, it makes me want to keep flying.

I also tested OpenXR vs SteamVR on the Varjo with the 2.8 beta, got exact same GPU frametimes from both modes.  CPU frametime report for OXRTK is borked (per the author himself) so not using that for comparison between different API modes, but it is still useful for relative comparison within OpenXR when you adjust various gfx settings.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Supmua

[Gunnars Driver]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

Yes, upgrading to rtx 4090 allows me to get 90 fps in free flight missions--

 

Good to know! 
 

The 2.8 debacle probablu is the usual one, get solved later on.

So then I just need to w8 until the right cardbis available  

[Supmua]

Been messing around with the settings, and it seems 3368x2888 pixels might be the optimal resolution for image quality vs performance on the Varjo.  At this res shimmering is mostly gone (Persian Gulf free flights) and the clarity with Reshade luma sharpen applied is awesome pretty much as good as my flatscreen monitor.  I can also further adjust tonemap exposure and gamma settings via Reshade for perfect detail retrieval in very bright and dark areas (optimized dynamic range if you will).  With the new weather and lightings from the latest beta the end result is quite stunning.

I also found that running at Highest Varjo setting (39 PPD or whatever that’s called) and downsampling to above res via SteamVR yields slightly better clarity.  Chromatic aberration (color fringe) is also reduced at this Highest setting, but is also dependent on the angle of the VR lens against your face which is adjustable by tilting the headset’s side dials.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Supmua

[Major Corvus]

Varjo Base update today (3.7.2.13), and the Varjo is back to full funtionality and the best it's ever been on the RTX 4090.

Buttery smooth on the High preset and completely stutter free. DCS has never looked better

[darkman222]

Thanks for the heads up. What do the people with Varjo Base Beta do now? Still works fine for me.

The beta is 3.7.2.31 and of course wont find an update as the release version is x.13 and not x.31.

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, darkman222 said:

Thanks for the heads up. What do the people with Varjo Base Beta do now? Still works fine for me.

The beta is 3.7.2.31 and of course wont find an update as the release version is x.13 and not x.31.

According to Arch, they're functionally the same so I'm still using the beta.  There might be another beta anyway.

Note: If you can't hit steady 90 fps and wants stutter free experience with OpenVR, frame lock to 45 is highly recommended.  Bring up Analytics Window from VB, then click the bottom left icon and choose 45 fps.  V-sync mode does help but not as smooth if there're large variations in frametimes, so 45 fps lock is much better and this is equivalent to fixed throttling mode for SteamVR HMDs (V-sync mode is kinda like auto throttling for SteamVR).

Edited November 9, 2022 by Supmua

[Supmua]

Been messing around with the Headset and OXRTK to try to get the Aero to look just like the VR mirror screen on my OLED TV.  If you're interested check out my settings.  You have to use OpenXR for this.  It looks fairly close to my OLED TV with this setting, just not as vibrant or contrasty.  I'll do the same for OpenVR using Reshade when I have time.

Varjo:  Highest, Brightness 65%.

DCS:  whatever suits your need.

OXRTK:  Contrast 62, Brightness 46, Exposure 52, Contrast 58, (optional: Overriding resolution 3197x2740, Fix foveated wide/quality).

Edited November 10, 2022 by Supmua

[vulcan78]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:16 PM, zildac said:

I think the current line of thought is it's a driver issue at high throughput..possibly DSC related. Which likely means an Nvidia fix

 

I can confirm! This problem is most likely related to DSC as it occurs on both my Vive Pro 2 and 8KX!

https://community.openmr.com/t/can-we-get-acknowledgement-of-the-pimax-specific-rtx-4090-latency-lag-issue-please/39665/10 

https://community.openmr.com/t/8kx-lag-latency-update/39728/3 

I tried to post this at r/nvidia but they took it down "Rule 1 no troubleshooting" and I an unable to submit a ticket to Nvidia (always returns "Error"). If anyone has open comms with Nvidia and can relay this problem that would be great.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by vulcan78

[Gunnars Driver]

I just upgraded to 13900KF, DDR5 6.2 (32Mb) and a 4090. (Coming from 9900KS@5.2 DDR4 32Mb 3090.

I havent tweaked anything yet, steamVR set to 100%, havent checked the resolution( did but dont remember). Varjo at 39PPD.

I get 90 FPS most of the time. I was hosting the server tonight with three friends on a quite complicated misson with quite much asssets, most of the time 90 fps and it aversged 87 fps. 
 

Not 100% stutter free but almost. I took a lot of screen shots and it hickups the fps for a short while as usual.

In do not use the VR-preset but the settings I ised with the reverb.

[Gordy]

You should get even better performance in OpenXR

[Jarhead0331]

I just set up a new rig with a 4090 and I am still having this problem with stuttering. Varjo Base is current at 3.7.2.13. The stuttering occurs on the desktop workplace, in game at the menu screen and in flight. FPS is great around 90+/- but the stuttering is ever present and a killer.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[Jarhead0331]

Update: steamVR seems to run normally, if I launch it from within the varjo base menu tool. However, the stutter is still there. 

[dburne]

10 minutes ago, Jarhead0331 said:

Update: steamVR seems to run normally, if I launch it from within the varjo base menu tool. However, the stutter is still there. 

Make sure vsync is unchecked.

Also please note there is a current issue with new 4090 cards on newer motherboards and Aero  where the E cores need to be disabled otherwise can be stuttering. Hopefully Varjo will get a fix out for that at some point.

Edited December 18, 2022 by dburne

[Jarhead0331]

Thanks, dburne. I’ll double check vsync. How do I disable the E cores?

Thanks.

[dburne]

10 minutes ago, Jarhead0331 said:

Thanks, dburne. I’ll double check vsync. How do I disable the E cores?

Thanks.

Sorry hopefully someone else can help ya, I do not yet have a motherboard that supports that. Just what I have read recently here and on Discord. I would think there would be settings in bios for that but wait for confirmation please.

[Gunnars Driver]

On 12/18/2022 at 4:00 PM, Jarhead0331 said:

Thanks, dburne. I’ll double check vsync. How do I disable the E cores?

Thanks.

Do you know exactly what motherboard you have?

Also, are you familiar with changing settings in bios? 
We can help you, but then we need to know the above questions.

 

I have a i9 13900KF with a lot of E-cores but I havent had any problem at all. I have not disabled the E-cores.

I can see (with fpsVR for example) that all (high) cpu load is on the P-cores. I guess the issue is that E-cores is much less powerfull so if the main load is on a E-core it is not powerfull enough too the task. 
 

I have very good performance with the 4090/13900 and the aero. I do not get 90fps 100% of the time but I have quite high settings and it is always the GPU/4090 that is the limiting factor. Frame time on the CPU is 4-6ms. 

I would suggest to use fpsVR if possible to be able to see what is causing the stutter. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Gunnars Driver

[Jarhead0331]

Thanks for your post Gunnars Driver.  The motherboard is an Asus Prime Z790-P Wi-Fi D5 DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 2.5tbt LA. Based on some advice in other forums, I’ve used process lasso to tinker with the e-cores on the varjo base exe. I’m not sure if this solved the problem or not, but let me tell you what I observed.

When I started using process lasso, I was able to visually observe the functioning of the cores. What I see is that initially, only the top row of cores are active, but as soon as I start steamvr (and fps vr) a whole second row of cores becomes active and this resolves the problem with stuttering. So all I can deduce is that for whatever reason, until steamvr is active, only a portion of the cores are being utilized. Once steamvr kicks in, the full potential of the cpu is put to work, and the stutter is gone. Performance in game is fantastic. The best I’ve ever had on any rig. 

Curious to know your thoughts.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Jarhead0331

[Gunnars Driver]

4 hours ago, Jarhead0331 said:

So all I can deduce is that for whatever reason, until steamvr is active, only a portion of the cores are being utilized. Once steamvr kicks in, the full potential of the cpu is put to work, and the stutter is gone. Performance in game is fantastic. The best I’ve ever had on any rig. 

Curious to know your thoughts.

The cpu utilizes different clock frequency depending on how many cores that is used.

i dont know what cpu ypu have but the 13th gen has about the same principle:

if only one or two p-cores is used, you get a higher clockspeed. When all P-cores is used you get the same lower clockspeed on all cores.

I do not use project lasso or anything.

since some time I see two cores with more load ibstead of only obe loaded CPU core so it seem like dcs already can split the load on two cores? ( I did see this with my i9 9900 before i upgraded the computer as well, but i hsve only used fpsVR to see this in-game. Did not check it wth the task manager or otherwise.

 

 

[Gunnars Driver]

4 hours ago, Jarhead0331 said:

Thanks for your post Gunnars Driver.  The motherboard is an Asus Prime Z790-P Wi-Fi D5 DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 2.5tbt LA. Based on some advice in other forums, I’ve used process lasso to tinker with the e-cores on the varjo base exe. I’m not sure if this solved the problem or not, but let me tell you what I observed.

To disable to e-cores it should be done something like this:

Enter the BIOS and go to this tab:

The change these settings:

 

But basically, there is usually very small performance differences with or without e-cores. (Its been tested to zero or e few percent up or down).

Also, I have not disabled them and my system runs verey nice. A fresh Win10 install and fresh DCS install.

Also, even if I do not know what CPU you got i guess it is a 13th gen intel (because of the z790). In my case the CPU is newer limiting the performance in DCS.

It is the 4090 that is the bottleneck for me, and probably for you too if everything runs as it should…

With fpsVR, if you can use that, you’ll see the the frame time for both the CPU and the GPU. 

In my case I have 4-5(6) ms on the CPU, which is enought for more than 120 fps. Will not cause stutter on 90fps in normal cases.

The GPU have frame time that is about 1.5-2 times the cpu so about 7-11 ms. It sometimes go up to low 12, and anything above 11.1 ms will cause stutter as there isnt enough time to produce the frames.

I get an fps averade in dcs of about 87-89 depending on the game.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Gunnars Driver

[Gunnars Driver]

On 12/18/2022 at 3:49 PM, dburne said:

Also please note there is a current issue with new 4090 cards on newer motherboards and Aero  where the E cores need to be disabled otherwise can be stuttering. Hopefully Varjo will get a fix out for that at some point.

Just an update to the above:

- Did Varjo fix this?

Im still on the latest 3.7.X (havent installed 3.8 yet, away from home).

I have a Z790-mobo(Asus z790-f), 13900KF and I have [b]not[/b] disabled the e-cores and everything works fantastic. 
No stutter, there is no high load on any e-core. 
I have mostly 90fps and average at least 87 fps, even playing as the server etc. 

I would guess this ussue is fixed?