Buildzoid giving his salt: 12VHPWR

[BitMaster]

 

[LucShep]

Buildzoid may have the longest ramblings on PC hardware, but what he says always have good, valid reasoning behind.
There was nothing really wrong with how PCI-E connectors have been in recent years, it was unnecessary to adopt that new stupid connector.
For the least, it really needs improvement, period. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by LucShep

[BitMaster]

I watch many of his videos and tbh, I may understand 10-20% of that electronical stuff ( VRM's, Caps, SPS's, MosFETs...All OMG's 2 me ) but it's enough to get what he tries to say.

The hardest part was really trying to learn better RAM OC from him and that took many many videos and way more than a year to get a better understanding, still, far away from his level.

 

Regarding that stupid connector... I am just waiting for the first fellow Pilot that posts :"Had to eject, flight-computer caught fire"  

[Hiob]

How is it even possible to put such a potential fire hazard into market? There are tons of regulations even for the tiniest details, but that is ok?

[Dallas88B]

Don't see how to meet the manufacturers installation requirements while having the 4090 mounted in a PC case...

 

 

[AngleOff66]

RX 7000 cards rumored to not use this connector

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-7000-cards-reportedly-not-using-pcie-gen5-12vhpwr-connector

I've read a number of comments stating that these plugs are ok, that it is user error. Bending the cables etc.

Guess we shall see.

[Hiob]

26 minutes ago, AngleOff66 said:

I've read a number of comments stating that these plugs are ok, that it is user error. Bending the cables etc.

Well, yes. And that will probably be the excuse from Nvidia, BUT, cables being bend is the norm and not the exception. A manufacturer has to take that into account. Failure when used improperly - ok! Fire hazard when used impoperly (but commonly) - N O T OK!

Don't you think so?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Hiob

[AngleOff66]

Oh I absolutely agree with you re improper use and the design of products.

These cards have pushed the envelope size wise as well. 

I think about what Der8aur said in one of his 4090 reviews: They could have dropped power a bit which barely affected fps performance which likely would have allowed them to make a slightly smaller cooling stack/fins.

[BitMaster]

AMD's point of view to this:

 

From Guru3d, minutes ago...

AMD in a tweet shares that the 12+4 pin ATX 12VHPWR connector will not be used in any of its upcoming Radeon RX 7000 series next-generation graphics cards.

[AngleOff66]

Skip to 2:04

 

[BitMaster]

I think the problem is down to how the female part of the connector is made, not saying the male couldn't be better too.

It's unbelievable no one saw this problem before it was too late.

 

How can you make a female socket that is made like that for such a use case???  A solid hollow female that you cannot pry open and a better, solid male.

100watts through one of those pairs.... freaking suicide. When you do electric motors, you roughly know how much gauge you need for cont. 100w and what the plug should look like.

More like this, with feathers on the male and solid female: 

This is a really bad show for all involved.

 

IT SHOWS HOW MUCH THEY CARE but want your money !

Edited October 27, 2022 by BitMaster

[Hiob]

The real issue isn’t the connector, but the adapter that is provided by Nvidia. There is a detailed analysis of a very credible german tech-tuber on this.

When you see the pictures of the internals of the adapter and have any kind of knowledge about electronics and electricity, you’ll probably throw up.

In short, the cable are not cramped and stress relieved but only soldered to a very thin contact plane. They break when you look at them for too long. When this happens the current that is supposed too flow evenly across four or six pins, may only flow through two….and bang -melting you got.

When you want to be save, scrap the adapter and buy fitting cables from a credible PSU manufacturer.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Hiob

[BitMaster]

Afaik the issue occured also on MSI, Gigabyte and Asus boards and again, afaik, those ship their own Adapters.

You can't have a female that isn't closed all around, as soon as the male pin wiggles or puts stress on it, or 30x in & out, the whole thing becomes so wide that there is no more full contact given, and that, I am afraid, comes with all those adapters as that kind of male/female is what they use and I think they can only use those. So it's only more or less likely to occur from manufacturer to manufacturer but the error is in the design chosen. The design is ok, for much lower ampere loads.

I used to fly high powered electric R/C planes, most where roughly around 12v, give or take. When you pull up to 250w, G2 2mm Gold Contact is ok, 250-500w it's G 2.5 and G4 for higher loads up to 200amp and watts up to at least 13kW is what I have seen working with G4 Gold Contacts. Those not-closed-loop female pins are the culprit imho.

 

Anyway, the damage is done, Nvidia will sell less just because of that and AMD might get some more customers just because of that. What a dumb decision they took.

[Hiob]

20 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

Afaik the issue occured also on MSI, Gigabyte and Asus boards and again, afaik, those ship their own Adapters.

No, apparently not. All 4-way-Adapters are sourced by nvidia and provided to the board partners.

[BitMaster]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb Hiob:

No, apparently not. All 4-way-Adapters are sourced by nvidia and provided to the board partners.

Oh well, than it's up to Nvidia to fix this. 

Still, I doubt that another Adapter or ATX3.0-PSU cable will be completely safe. The way the Pins are arranged cries for such things to happen. BTW, the 30x in&out applies to all, not only the adapters and it actually means or refers to all parts involved, incl. the GPU socket.  The high load also not jumped onto that cable 1 inch before passing the socket, it came on this wire straight from the PSU. I would double and tripple check my PSU Pins as they also have been running the exact same load on those wires that melted. etc etc..

 

OK, I am gonna stop here, ain't gonna buy one anyway.

 

 

EDIT:

Igor seem's to have found the real problem, which is actually not the Pins ( I still dislike them ) but a bridge plate onto which the cables are soldered for load distribution.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by BitMaster

[Hiob]

 You should read the article or watch the video yourself. It will make things clear.

[BitMaster]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Hiob:

 You should read the article or watch the video yourself. It will make things clear.

It's many stupid things coming together, LoL, but Igor's photo's and explanation are the best so far for what has happened to the 4in1 Adapters.

Still, the 30x connection leave a bad taste, even if they are not foremost a fire hazard.

 

[LucShep]

Do not worry, NVIDIA will come up with a redesigned replacement cable soon.........!!!   

Now more seriously...

If NVIDIA briefs all board partners in urgency and makes damage an absolute issue, then the matter is pretty darn serious.
It all comes down to this - while most RTX4090 users may not have this issue with the cable right now, they might have it at some point.... (not good!).
Let's just hope that an easy and practical solution will be found and implemented, for both future and exhistent RTX4000 GPUs users peace of mind.
 

On 10/27/2022 at 10:25 PM, BitMaster said:

Anyway, the damage is done, Nvidia will sell less just because of that and AMD might get some more customers just because of that. What a dumb decision they took.

The writing was on the wall since day one.
And, as always, early adopters suffer the most (this time on a ~2000€ product, not sold at MSRP). 
A bit of a sad realization that, what most of us have been saying in these forums to "be patient, wait a bit more, then decide on your next high-end GPU", actually makes all the sense.  More so, now seeing this problem.

NVIDIA scored an own goal. AMD may become #1 choice by default.
....I just hope AMD doesn't get dirty, and perceive all this as motivation to over inflate prices at last minute, because these new RX7000 GPUs will sell like hot cakes from day one.

Edited October 29, 2022 by LucShep

[EightyDuce]

 

[AngleOff66]

Just read this on reddit.  Listen for the click.  But some folks don't hear the click or struggle to seat the connector properly.

The video by Ronaldo by teclab is interesting.

If this is the real issue, should a connector be this fiddly? 

[SkateZilla]

there's literally aftermarket options coming to fix this problem,

one is an adapter, w/ no wires, a straight block adapter, clips into the 12VHPWR connector, has 4 8 Pin Connectors on the opposite side.