Hind is harder to fly now?

[Stratos]

Has the latest 2.8 upgrade changed the FM or the trim or something? I have been flying the Mirage F1 for a while and now that I returned to the Hind in 2.8 I feel a lot harder to fly than before, harder to take off and specially harder to fly in level flight. Also noticed that trim buttons make some strange movements like strong nose pull ups. Have anything changed or is just me being off of practice?

[jonsky7]

Have you checked the "special" option tab for the Hind?

On one update my trim option changed to FFB mode. Which made it very weird.

 

Just a suggestion.

[admiki]

It seems to be a bit heavier and maybe less pedal authority, but nothing really noticeable. This is just subjective feel.

[Stratos]

Then maybe is the damn trim thingie, need to check what I used before.

[AeriaGloria]

I have felt no difference. Trim is however tricky no matter what 

[bingbean]

They added 100% AP YAW authority so AP can now move the pedals, but it was update before 2.8.

Micro Switch Logic: "Enable/Disable by absence/presence of pedal movement",  is broken and doesn't work as intended, so AP will fight with you in this case.  So probably it is this.

[AeriaGloria]

36 minutes ago, bingbean said:

They added 100% AP YAW authority so AP can now move the pedals, but it was update before 2.8.

Micro Switch Logic: "Enable/Disable by absence/presence of pedal movement",  is broken and doesn't work as intended, so AP will fight with you in this case.  So probably it is this.

That wouldn’t effect strong nose pull ups and other odd trim button movements the OP sees. Which to me sounds like the same old “you can either hold trim while maneuvering or trim twice to get rid of the jumping trim” which happens becuase of trim changing the attitude hold, often rapidly reversing its outputs 

[Tuturuu]

Hey when you say hold trim while maneuvering you are speaking about "virtual" stick trimmer hold (Not actually triming nose up / down) ? 
I always have to drop my stick and rudder as fast as i can after clicking of the trimmer and it sures would be great if i could actually just hold the button while coming back before the change occurs, is this what you meant ? 

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Tuturuu said:

Hey when you say hold trim while maneuvering you are speaking about "virtual" stick trimmer hold (Not actually triming nose up / down) ? 
I always have to drop my stick and rudder as fast as i can after clicking of the trimmer and it sures would be great if i could actually just hold the button while coming back before the change occurs, is this what you meant ? 

Well you have two ways to trim. Trim hat and trim button. Trim hat does it’s job well no matter what you are doing. But only really effects stick position, and can cause you to run out of AP authority quicker. 
 

But trim button interacts with AP, turns it off while pressed and resets it to 0, including attitude hold, when trim is released. So if you just tap trim after your attitude has changed a lot since last time you trimmed (when AP would be making a large input), the trim being pressed will cause the aircraft to jump or jerk. Ka-50 does same thing for same reason 

You can either hold trim while maneuvering, and release it when you want it to hold say level flight or a steady turn. Or you can trim in smaller increments. Say if I need to trim from hover flight to fast flight which requires a lot of nose down, trimming a few times as I nose down is alot smoother then trimming once when my nose is fully down. 
 

All these are two much for me, and if I want to trim I just trim 2-3x. I usually trim for level flight in straight fast cruise and keep it there. If I hover or neeed to spend a long time in a different flight mode (orbit, loiter, slow speed) is the only time I really decide to make large trim. 
 

If you keep the hat trim to only small corrections, it has no negative effect on autopilot. 
 

If you want to learn everything about the AP you can read my guide, it’s one of the threads on the main page here called “Personal Mi-24 guides.” 
 

But if you just want to fly and see what happens, press R control + enter to see how the jump is caused by trim resetting AP. And how your control degrades when AP is at its limit, and how much better trimming makes it easier to control and aim weapons. 

[Stratos]

One doubt I have, left pedal arrives all the way to the limit, but right pedal no. Is that normal operation?

[admiki]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

One doubt I have, left pedal arrives all the way to the limit, but right pedal no. Is that normal operation?

No, that should actually be opposite.

You sure that AP is not trimming your pedals? Also make sure to hit trim reset from time to time.

[Stratos]

6 minutes ago, admiki said:

No, that should actually be opposite.

You sure that AP is not trimming your pedals? Also make sure to hit trim reset from time to time.

Sorry, was a typo, you're right and is the opposite, so then is intentional?

[bingbean]

3 hours ago, Stratos said:

One doubt I have, left pedal arrives all the way to the limit, but right pedal no. Is that normal operation?

This is right. Right pedal have slightly less travel as left one , but the difference is tiny. 

 

 

 

If the diference is significant for you, then AP YAW chanel change pedal TRIM position. 

More info here:

 

[Stratos]

I have to agree that all those AP channels, microswitches and the rest are quite confusing, ED MUST provide a full manual for this module! How I miss the time that a module like the Ka50 came with a full manual, have mine on the shelf just on my side.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Stratos

[admiki]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

I have to agree that all those AP channels, microswitches and the rest are quite confusing, ED MUST provide a full manual for this module! How I miss the time that a module like the Ka50 came with a full manual, have mine on the shelf just on my side.

 

Both Aeria Gloria and me have provided multiple detailed explanations how to set AP

[AeriaGloria]

5 hours ago, Stratos said:

I have to agree that all those AP channels, microswitches and the rest are quite confusing, ED MUST provide a full manual for this module! How I miss the time that a module like the Ka50 came with a full manual, have mine on the shelf just on my side.

 

 All I can say if you want a manual just for the autopilot, read my guides that are on the front page of the forum. 
 

If you want Yaw autopilot go to Secrion B. Part 1 of that section covers real life, part 2 covers simulation in DCS and special settings https://forum.dcs.world/topic/294627-personal-mi-24p-autopilot-and-weapons-guides/

Edited November 6, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Stratos]

I haven't explained yself clear enough, sorry. I requested the manual for the real life background behind all those design decisions, the Ka50 manual had a lot of technical stuff that was very entertaining to read.

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, Stratos said:

I haven't explained yself clear enough, sorry. I requested the manual for the real life background behind all those design decisions, the Ka50 manual had a lot of technical stuff that was very entertaining to read.

They will not help you anymore then the guide I have made. I have viewed every documentation possible. Here are excerpts from the cold war air museum manual that go into more technical detail then usual

Edited November 6, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Stratos]

4 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

They will not help you anymore then the guide I have made. I have viewed every documentation possible. Here are excerpts from the cold war air museum manual that go into more technical detail then usual 

Cannot see the pics, can you please check? really interested.

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, Stratos said:

Cannot see the pics, can you please check? really interested.

You can go to page 47 of the manual to check yourself…. Let me know if that helps you at all…. I think many people, including myself,  overestimated how much the manual would inform them of the AP 

Post is fixed.

Edited November 7, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[sorcer3r]

for petrovich yes.

took him years to align with my targeting sight