Ranging function missing in A/A TACAN

[Giskvoosk]

As the title suggests, slant range reading is not available when contacting other airborne tacan transmitter, neither from tanker nor on either end of tacan yardstick.

 

If anything, i thought ranging was more of a primitive function than bearing-interpreting in A/A operation?

Edited November 6, 2022 by Giskvoosk

[Giskvoosk]

Update: the problem is not fixed as of DCS 2.8.0.33006

 

Tested with tanker aircraft, the larger arrow was pointing correctly to the tanker however cannot tell the range to it.

[Iron Sights]

Maybe there will be an AA function once the Mirage with the refueling probe is introduced? Hard to tell on this one.

[Giskvoosk]

9 hours ago, Iron Sights said:

Maybe there will be an AA function once the Mirage with the refueling probe is introduced? Hard to tell on this one.

I don't think that's the case here, considering there's no difference between F1AZ/CZ's manual regarding A/A TACAN. There's no mentioning that A/A mode are exclusive to AAR-capable jets only. And as for now A/A mode is available, just lacking the capability of distance measuring.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Giskvoosk

[Iron Sights]

In that case maybe it’s just not implemented yet. It would seem odd not to have a ranging function for air to air refueling. Maybe just an early access thing? Tested and there is no ranging. Hopefully it will be added.

 

[Ramsay]

On 11/6/2022 at 3:21 AM, Giskvoosk said:

If anything, i thought ranging was more of a primitive function than bearing-interpreting in A/A operation?

TACAN ranging uses integration/reply timing to calculate distance. AFAIK it should be available on most TACAN equipped aircraft i.e. fighter to fighter.

Generating TACAN "radials" requires a larger/heavier antenna array, AFAIK it is usually only available from ground stations and larger aircraft.

AFAIK the missing DCS A/A TACAN ranging in the F1CE is a general bug effecting multiple (all ?) DCS modules and was introduced some time prior to 2.7 ?

 

[scoobie]

2 hours ago, Ramsay said:

AFAIK the missing DCS A/A TACAN ranging in the F1CE is a general bug effecting multiple (all ?) DCS modules

I don't know about F1, but that's definitely true - multiple aircraft were/are affected, probably all of them.
The workaround was/is to use T/R instead of A/A (no idea if this is going to work in F1).

Edited November 21, 2022 by scoobie

[fagulha]

AA Tacan don´t display range as in T/R only direction.

On some modules in early access (Hornet for instance) AA Tacan gave distance but then was corrected by ED and shouçd work as irl with AA TCN with no ranging.

[scoobie]

Are you talking Mirage F1 or in general? I know some aircraft have a single "A/A" position on the TACAN knob. In their case I'm not sure how their on-board TACAN set should work. Some other planes, though, may have two positions: "A/A REC" and "A/A T/R". Screenshots attached. It's from A-10A, but the same TACAN set is on A-10C (AN/ARN-118(V)).
To my understanding, a year or so ago ALL planes in DCS lost the capability of working in this "A/A T/R" mode, though maybe Mirage F1 never had ranging in "A/A" position? I mean IRL. I don't know.

nullnull

Edited November 21, 2022 by scoobie

[Giskvoosk]

Thing is, TACAN on US combat jets from 60s and in some case early 70s often had their air to air mode marked as A/A only like on F1, no differentiating between Receive only and T/R but was functioning like the latter, as this can be observed in flight manuals from that period. Given that a rotating antenna was required for bearing information and wasn't widely available at all back then, the primary usage of A/A was for ranging-only TACAN yardstick. Hence i mentioned in original post that ranging was more of a primitive function in this mode. It would be counter-productive if its modelled the other way around.

 

10 hours ago, Ramsay said:

AFAIK the missing DCS A/A TACAN ranging in the F1CE is a general bug effecting multiple (all ?) DCS modules and was introduced some time prior to 2.7 ?

6 hours ago, fagulha said:

AA Tacan don´t display range as in T/R only direction.

Not true, most (if not all) TACAN-equipped module (i don't own jf-17/c-101/mb339 so cannot tell these 3) can perform fighter-to-fighter TACAN yardstick just fine, while F1 can't.  It's little bit finicky for F/A-18 since more than half of its channels have been occupied by MIDS but the rest are doing well. 

 

AI tanker is another touchy subject let's just ignore this for now. They're operating on non-A/A mode and behave like an airborne mobile ground station. For whatever reason F1 can receive the bearing in A/A, but not in any other jets.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Giskvoosk

[fagulha]

4 hours ago, Giskvoosk said:

Thing is, TACAN on US combat jets from 60s and in some case early 70s often had their air to air mode marked as A/A only like on F1, no differentiating between Receive only and T/R but was functioning like the latter, as this can be observed in flight manuals from that period. Given that a rotating antenna was required for bearing information and wasn't widely available at all back then, the primary usage of A/A was for ranging-only TACAN yardstick. Hence i mentioned in original post that ranging was more of a primitive function in this mode. It would be counter-productive if its modelled the other way around.

 

Not true, most (if not all) TACAN-equipped module (i don't own jf-17/c-101/mb339 so cannot tell these 3) can perform fighter-to-fighter TACAN yardstick just fine. It's little bit finicky for F/A-18 since more than half of its channels have been occupied by MIDS but the rest are doing well. 

 

AI tanker is another touchy subject let's just ignore this for now. They're operating on non-A/A mode and behave like an airborne mobile ground station. For whatever reason F1 can receive the bearing in A/A, but not in any other jets.

 

Yup i was thinking in the AI Tankers. Messy subject.

Either way it´s clear that there´s a little of fog around the issue, it´s getting hard to get the correct answer.

[Bestandskraft]

Just tested the AAT in 2.8.5.40170 MT and I can confirm that no DME readout can be obtained on other aircraft in either the F1CE or the F1EE in A/A TACAN mode.

That is, even though the AAT channels are set 63 channels apart and A/A TACAN is selected, there is no DME readout, neither in X or Y mode, against other human players flying in the F1CE, F1EE or another aircraft.

The only thing that does seem to work in A/A mode is a BEARING readout against an AI tanker.

If TACAN T/R mode and the appropriate band is selected, a DME readout can be obtained against a tanker transmitting in the X or Y band, respectively, but no readout is obtained against other human players.

Interestingly, a bearing readout against a tanker is obtained even though it is set NOT to transmit a bearing in the ME. I am not sure if the latter is an F1 or a DCS bug.

The main problem with this is that one currently cannot use the A/A TACAN for precise tactical formation station keeping, which impedes BFM/ACM training out of canned setups.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Bestandskraft

[Bananabrai]

A-A TACAN is still not working. Is there a timeline for a fix?

Would be pretty cool to fly the bird with yardstick.