Low FPS with Low GPU usage DCS 2.8

[MavOne96]

Hello fellows,

As it was the case with previous verisons this bug still persists in 2.8 for me.

I can't get DCS to use my GPU at its maximum potential. GPU usage is all over the place bouncing up to 70-80% with low FPS around 60-70 varying up to 80-90 at higher altitudes. I have attached various photos with my settings and with the actual performance taken both in multiplayer and is singleplayer.

Here are my specs:

Processor    AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8-Core Processor 3.80 GHz
Installed RAM    32.0 GB
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Edition    Windows 11 Pro
Version    22H2    Installed on    ‎29/‎10/‎2022
OS build    22621.819
GPU    Nvidia 3080Ti
Nvidia Driver    526.86    Release Date    11/10/2022
OS and DCS storage    Samsung SSD 980 Pro 1TB

I don't see any bottlenecks nor limits in my system and I have already tried multiple settings and solutions found on other threads (vsync on-off/fast in game settings and Nvidia Control Pannel, setting fps limits to 144 etc.) but nothing worked.

Do you get the same issues or have other solutions that I should try?

Thanks.

(GPU usage in multiplayer) 

(GPU usage in singleplayer)

(DCS Settings and Nvidia Control Panel)

[silverdevil]

@MavOne96 - my only thought is vertical sync should be off when using gsync. i cap my fps to alleviate head tracker lag. my gpu never chugs. i tries a quick mission. getting 83% and 60 fps. the human eye cannot see a difference to anything above 60 fps (arguably). https://www.healthline.com/health/human-eye-fps#how-many-fps-do-people-see

[Hiob]

34 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

@MavOne96 - my only thought is vertical sync should be off when using gsync. i cap my fps to alleviate head tracker lag. my gpu never chugs. i tries a quick mission. getting 83% and 60 fps. the human eye cannot see a difference to anything above 60 fps (arguably). https://www.healthline.com/health/human-eye-fps#how-many-fps-do-people-see

That is total BS. First of all, the human eye doesn’t work like camera. It doesn’t have a shutter. It doesn’t really see discrete frames in the first place.

Second, you can test the difference easily for yourself. Just pan around 180 degree and see the difference in the mushiness of the landscape. Or scroll a text on 60Hz tablet vs a 120Hz tablet. Or use this site:

https://www.testufo.com

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Hiob

[silverdevil]

i put in "arguably" for people like you @Hiob because we all know that if you disagree with something, no one else could possibly be correct.

[Hiob]

9 minutes ago, silverdevil said:

i put in "arguably" for people like you @Hiob because we all know that if you disagree with something, no one else could possibly be correct.

Well funny thing is - I do even agree with the sentiment of your post, regarding v-sync that may cause problems and that one can rightfully argue if 60+ Hz are needed for a good experience in DCS.

But claiming there is no benefit of 60+ Hz, "because the human eye can't see a difference" is a total myth that was debunked 1.001 times and spreading it does not help. That's not a matter of disagreeing but of facts.

And the difference between us is, that I don't need to attack you on a personal level to get my point across.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, silverdevil said:

my only thought is vertical sync should be off when using gsync.

Vsync should actually be turned on when using G-Sync. You want the game to match its refresh rate to the display ie variable, which is what this setting does. 
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-set-up-nvidia-g-sync-for-smooth-tear-free-pc-gaming

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, silverdevil said:

the human eye cannot see a difference to anything above 60 fps

Having just upgraded to a 120hz monitor I’m surprised how much smoother this looks than 60hz even for just normal tasks besides gaming. So in my case, yes there’s a noticeable difference. I’m not sure those studies cited in the link are applicable. Common sense should tell you that your real world eyesight is vastly more sensitive than anything a display can produce. 

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, MavOne96 said:

I can't get DCS to use my GPU at its maximum potential. GPU usage is all over the place bouncing up to 70-80% with low FPS around 60-70 varying up to 80-90 at higher altitudes.

I don’t think you’re experiencing a “bug”. You just have a very strong GPU which isn’t being taxed 100% by DCS. Your limit is coming from the CPU it would seem. I wouldn’t consider 60-90 FPS to be poor performance in any case. DCS is currently single-threaded on the CPU (multi-core is in the works) so getting 144hz from a CPU these days is probably asking too much. 
Try turning Vsync on in DCS and off in NCP. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by SharpeXB

[MavOne96]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Your limit is coming from the CPU it would seem.

I have watched CPU usage thread by thread and none goes to 100% thus I don't think CPU is the problem. In the past before 2.8 I also got this issue with GPU not being fully used but changing vsync and adding fps limits worked pushing more fps with higher GPU usage but this solution is not applicable to 2.8 it seems.

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Try turning Vsync on in DCS and off in NCP. 

I tried your solution and it behaves the same: around 60% GPU usage with ~70 fps.

[SharpeXB]

34 minutes ago, MavOne96 said:

I tried your solution and it behaves the same: around 60% GPU usage with ~70 fps.

This won’t affect your frame rate, just would probably make G-Sync smoother. It may not have any effect. If I recall “Fast” Vsync shouldn’t be needed with G-Sync. It’s used similar to Adaptive Sync which wouldn’t be needed if you have a variable refresh rate display. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by SharpeXB

[SharpeXB]

46 minutes ago, MavOne96 said:

I have watched CPU usage thread by thread and none goes to 100% thus I don't think CPU is the problem. In the past before 2.8 I also got this issue with GPU not being fully used but changing vsync and adding fps limits worked pushing more fps with higher GPU usage but this solution is not applicable to 2.8 it seems.

I don’t think watching CPU usage will tell you anything. The game is single thread limited but that doesn’t mean you’ll see one thread pegged to 100% all the time. 2.8 added lots of graphics changes so who knows how that’s reflected in usage. 
If you want to test to see whether you’re CPU limited just drop your resolution down super low like 720p. Then if your frame rate stays the same then you know you’re limited by the CPU

Edited November 12, 2022 by SharpeXB

[JIGGAwest]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:46 AM, MavOne96 said:

Hello fellows,

As it was the case with previous verisons this bug still persists in 2.8 for me.

 

Do you get the same issues or have other solutions that I should try?

I'd have you try a few things before calling this a bug. While alot of the discussions lately have focused on frame rate loss in 2.8, I've noticed in some of my tests show that 2.8 is a bit smoother between frames and with  lower CPU load. These tests were performed with G-Sync enabled. I can share the test data if requested, but it's rather heavy in depth. But, there may be a marginal spread in performance difference in 2.8 with SHADOW settings ON vs 2.7 stable and latest Nvidia driver version. You can see my attached test chart. I'd say until ED finishes their investigation on SHADOWS, maybe turn them off? (this could be the "bug")

Keep in mind DCS has changed it's Fullscreen mode recently, so try setting g-sync to be enabled for windowed applications also in NVCP. Although, I've not tested this for required functionality yet. I don't have full screen mode enabled in DCS.

Maybe a look at your DCS settings can help us give you some more performance for some detuning trade-offs. Share that if you wish.

Nvidia control panel suggestions:

Are you using MSAA in game? 2x 4x ? Try running 2x with NVCP set to Multi Frame samed AA (MFAA) ON. Or keep MSAA in game off and this setting to off if shimmer is not a problem for you.

I like to set a "Background Application max framerate" to 20. This doesn't do much, but if you have applications running in the background like trackir or a YouTube video, they won't be fighting for your GPU/CPU resources. If you tab out of DCS, with this on DCS will look jittery until you refocus the window.

Set low latency mode to ON. Your monitor may have a setting for this too.

Some would say to Set Max Framerate below your refresh rate by couple of percent, this could help deliver a more smooth experience.  Couple this with "Vertical Sync" set to use 3d application setting in NVCP. You can try testing v-sync on or off in DCS. Or leave this off if you prefer hitting the highest of frame rates.

"Texture Filtering" could give you a hit, maybe try performance. I wouldn't suggest the HIGH modes of quality or performance. Just the standard options. If set to quality this will affect the anisotropic filtering to OFF.

Anisotropic Filtering - set to managed by application or 16x, if application managed set this in DCS.

Power Management - this is a contentions setting for some. If you set to prefer max performance, the GPU will run full power all the time when demanded. You may not want this if you are hitting high temps on the GPU at times. Or set to normal.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by JIGGAwest

[HeavyGun1450]

20 hours ago, MavOne96 said:

I have watched CPU usage thread by thread and none goes to 100% thus I don't think CPU is the problem. In the past before 2.8 I also got this issue with GPU not being fully used but changing vsync and adding fps limits worked pushing more fps with higher GPU usage but this solution is not applicable to 2.8 it seems.

I tried your solution and it behaves the same: around 60% GPU usage with ~70 fps.

The issue is not because the cpu usage is maxed out on a single thread, it's because the DCS core engine is not even remotely utilizing the cpu because it's from the ancient Lock On era, therefore the cpu cannot push frames to your gpu to utilize your GPU fully.

Edited November 13, 2022 by HeavyGun1450

[SharpeXB]

25 minutes ago, JIGGAwest said:

set a "Background Application max framerate" to 20. This doesn't do much, but if you have applications running in the background like trackir or a YouTube video, they won't be fighting for your GPU/CPU resources.

Why would you set TrackIR to 20fps? That would be very choppy and also TrackIR uses hardly any system resources. Like .1% of the CPU

25 minutes ago, JIGGAwest said:

Set low latency mode to ON.

I haven’t tried this myself but looking at the description in NCP you might want to try Ultra with Vsync and G-Sync enabled. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by SharpeXB

[Hiob]

20 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Why would you set TrackIR to 20fps? That would be very choppy and also TrackIR uses hardly any system resources. Like .1% of the CPU

I haven’t tried this myself but looking at the description in NCP you might want to try Ultra with Vsync and G-Sync enabled. 

 

You are absolutely right, but I would even question if Trackir is affected by this. Trackir is an input device, more like a mouse if anything. The fps limiting for background processes is meant for outputs if I‘m not mistaken.

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, Hiob said:

You are absolutely right, but I would even question if Trackir is affected by this. Trackir is an input device, more like a mouse if anything. The fps limiting for background processes is meant for outputs if I‘m not mistaken.

Yeah I can’t imagine it’s affected by that setting. 

[JIGGAwest]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Why would you set TrackIR to 20fps? That would be very choppy and also TrackIR uses hardly any system resources. Like .1% of the CPU

I haven’t tried this myself but looking at the description in NCP you might want to try Ultra with Vsync and G-Sync enabled. 

 

I'm not sure why you think the visualization of a choppy background application would make any issue. I simply used this as an example. Choose which ever setting best suits your opinion. 

 

There are known issues with low latency mode set to ultra. I'm curious to see if you have data to support an ultra setting working better in DCS. 

 

[SharpeXB]

59 minutes ago, JIGGAwest said:

There are known issues with low latency mode set to ultra. I'm curious to see if you have data to support an ultra setting working better in DCS. 

I’m just reading the description in NCP, that’s the recommendation there. Trying it in DCS seems ok to me. 

1 hour ago, JIGGAwest said:

I simply used this as an example.

Well TrackIR doesn’t make any sense to use for this example. 

[Bigskill]

Hi, I have the same Identical problem, i7 7700k, 3060 12 gb vram, 48 gbram, ssd, LG monitor 165 hz. On Caucasus server I get average 30 40 fps, no VR, and gpu jum between 50 to 80 and so on. On siria I get 70ish fps, gpu at 99% all the time, same as PG map. I vant figured out...... settings medium high. Before 2.8 everything was on the 70ish above fps.

I can feel your frustration man....

Edited November 22, 2022 by Bigskill

[Hiob]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:37 PM, Bigskill said:

Hi, I have the same Identical problem, i7 7700k, 3060 12 gb vram, 48 gbram, ssd, LG monitor 165 hz. On Caucasus server I get average 30 40 fps, no VR, and gpu jum between 50 to 80 and so on. On siria I get 70ish fps, gpu at 99% all the time, same as PG map. I vant figured out...... settings medium high. Before 2.8 everything was on the 70ish above fps.

I can feel your frustration man....

 

Are you playing on a rather low resolution and details? Maybe your FPS are too high. (Weird, I know)

Just as a test, try to limit the max fps in the Nvidia control panel to 90 fps e.g.

[silverdevil]

i noticed references to tacview in the log. my latest log had these lines. DCS/2.8.0.33006

2022-11-22 23:48:15.314 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): During the last 600.0s an average of 6 units objects and 1 ballistic objects have been active per frame
2022-11-22 23:48:15.314 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): The average frame rate of 81.5fps would have been 82.8fps if the flight data recorder was disabled
2022-11-22 23:48:15.314 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): DCS World simulation is taking 98.3% of CPU
2022-11-22 23:48:15.314 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main):  DCS GetWorldObjects is taking  0.8% of CPU
2022-11-22 23:48:15.314 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main):     Tacview recorder is taking  0.9% of CPU

then an extract from when i was capping my FPS at 60. also a couple patches ago. DCS/2.8.0.32066

2022-11-01 21:00:16.110 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): During the last 600.0s an average of 307 units objects and 6 ballistic objects have been active per frame
2022-11-01 21:00:16.110 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): The average frame rate of 54.4fps would have been 62.0fps if the flight data recorder was disabled
2022-11-01 21:00:16.110 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main): DCS World simulation is taking 87.8% of CPU
2022-11-01 21:00:16.110 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main):  DCS GetWorldObjects is taking 11.0% of CPU
2022-11-01 21:00:16.110 INFO    TACVIEW.DLL (Main):     Tacview recorder is taking  1.2% of CPU

 

[Bigskill]

On 11/24/2022 at 1:57 AM, Hiob said:

Are you playing on a rather low resolution and details? Maybe your FPS are too high. (Weird, I know)

Just as a test, try to limit the max fps in the Nvidia control panel to 90 fps e.g.

I play on high details in 1440p, but yesterday I change my page file to an ssd, before was on a Mechanical drive and I got back at 60/70ish. So I guess page file was the problem. I also limited my fps at 82, and 20 on the background on the Nvidia ctrl panel. My max Freq is set to 144hz tho. My monitor go up to 165 Hz

[DropBear64]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:20 AM, SharpeXB said:

I don’t think you’re experiencing a “bug”. You just have a very strong GPU which isn’t being taxed 100% by DCS. Your limit is coming from the CPU it would seem. I wouldn’t consider 60-90 FPS to be poor performance in any case. DCS is currently single-threaded on the CPU (multi-core is in the works) so getting 144hz from a CPU these days is probably asking too much. 
Try turning Vsync on in DCS and off in NCP. 

 

I agree if you are getting frames between 60-90fps then count yourself as one of the lucky ones. I for one am running a 3090 and an 11th gen i9 with 64GB DDR4 at 3600GHz and I get between 60-90fps because as said before it is only using 1 core (soon to be changed). However, when I look at my game which is running at max settings bar smoke which I set to 1 and it uses 99% of my GPU! I'm displaying it on a SAMSUNG Odyssey LC49G95T 49' curved screen, and I have Gsync and Vsync on with the resolution set to 5120x 1440 and turning off Vsync makes no difference for me. I have them both on because they are supposed to work together.

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, DropBear64 said:

I have Gsync and Vsync on with the resolution set to 5120x 1440 and turning off Vsync makes no difference for me. I have them both on because they are supposed to work together.

Right, Vsync is supposed to be on when using Gsync although I wonder if it makes any difference. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by SharpeXB

[silverdevil]

6 hours ago, DropBear64 said:

I have Gsync and Vsync on with the resolution set to 5120x 1440 and turning off Vsync makes no difference for me. I have them both on because they are supposed to work together.

 

35 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Right, Vsync is supposed to be on when using Gsync although I wonder if it makes any difference. 

hmm. i swear i saw a video where the presenter said it was one or the other. i use G SYNC but not VSYNC. i do not remember if the video mentioned the two settings adversely affecting each other.

i did find a simple review on the two that i had not seen before. worth a look. https://www.onecomputerguy.com/g-sync-vs-vsync/ one major point is G SYNC costs money whereas VSYNC is free.