GBU 31/3 Penetrator vs JSOW Breach

[Spirale]

Hi,

I did a simple test: i wanted to destroy a Command Center with a GBU31/3 with penetrator head.

Results: This GBU31/3 is unable to penetrate and destruct the Command Center ( postly underground structure).

I found that is possible to destruct with an F18 and a Jsow Breach...

Is it like like that IRL? Is the GBU31/3 unable to destruct such a target meanwhile the JSOW can?

Thx for your replies

[Hobel]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb Spirale:

Hi,

I did a simple test: i wanted to destroy a Command Center with a GBU31/3 with penetrator head.

Results: This GBU31/3 is unable to penetrate and destruct the Command Center ( postly underground structure).

I found that is possible to destruct with an F18 and a Jsow Breach...

Is it like like that IRL? Is the GBU31/3 unable to destruct such a target meanwhile the JSOW can?

Thx for your replies

If we are talking about the same command centre. 

With the right setting, I only needed 2 gbu31 pen bombs to destroy it.

 

But I'll check it later again

[Spirale]

3 hours ago, Hobel said:

If we are talking about the same command centre. 

With the right setting, I only needed 2 gbu31 pen bombs to destroy it.

 

But I'll check it later again

Thx Hobel, but i wonder why it needs 2 GBU31 to destroy it while only one JSOW reach this goal.

For a 2 bombs run with the GBU31, often they don't fall on the same point...But that's another story...Perhaps i do something weird...

[Hobel]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Spirale:

only one JSOW reach this goal.

 

hm so with me the center is not even destroyed after 8 pieces.

can you send a trackfile of it or a video?

[Spirale]

Did you take the "breach" version of the JSOW?

[Northstar98]

5 hours ago, Spirale said:

Did you take the "breach" version of the JSOW?

FWIW, if you're talking about the AGM-154C, the term is "BROACH" for Bomb Royal Ordance Augmented CHarge.

[Hobel]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Spirale:

Did you take the "breach" version of the JSOW?

Yes.

[Northstar98]

So this is pretty strange, in my testing a single GBU-31(V)3/4 is able to destroy the command centre, whereas 3 AGM-154Cs are needed.

Both set for DLY1.

Tested with the AI - same result.

GBU-31(V)4B_Player_Command_Centre.trk GBU-31(V)3B_AI_Command_Centre.trk AGM-154C_AI_Command_Centre.trk AGM-154C_Player_Command_Centre.trk

[Hobel]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Northstar98:

So this is pretty strange, in my testing a single GBU-31(V)3/4 is able to destroy the command centre, whereas 3 AGM-154Cs are needed.

thx! I have also repeated the whole thing again and get exactly your results.

[Spirale]

Strange, i don't have the same results. JSWO one hit and CC is destroyed...Or may be am i missing something?

The other track is for the GBU31/3, CC seems to be destroyed too....so i wonder why, in, my first post, CC was intact??

JSOWVSCC.trk GBU313VSCC.trk

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Spirale said:

Strange, i don't have the same results. JSWO one hit and CC is destroyed...Or may be am i missing something?

The other track is for the GBU31/3, CC seems to be destroyed too....so i wonder why, in, my first post, CC was intact??

JSOWVSCC.trk 1.38 MB · 1 download GBU313VSCC.trk 1.57 MB · 1 download

Interesting, I'm getting mixed results with the F-16, I've yet to kill it with 1 like the Hornet, but I have managed with 2 but when trying to reproduce I've so far been unsuccessful.

[Spirale]

Interesting too, i wonder why it would be more effective with the JSOW C than with the GBU31/3?

I hope one day we will have real like blast radius and damages / munitions. This is , for me, critical for immersion.

And it is normally NOT dependant to the type of plane....

Edited November 19, 2022 by Spirale

[QuiGon]

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Interesting, I'm getting mixed results with the F-16, I've yet to kill it with 1 like the Hornet, but I have managed with 2 but when trying to reproduce I've so far been unsuccessful.

If you're talking about the GBU-31, then make sure you set the fuze to GND. I think it is set to AIR by default, causing less damage.

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

If you're talking about the GBU-31, then make sure you set the fuze to GND. I think it is set to AIR by default, causing less damage.

I’ve used both - so far I can’t tell the difference (didn't think that was implemented owing to the lack of fragmentation modelling).

Heck when I killed the command centre with 2 that might’ve been with the AIR fuse.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Northstar98

[Spirale]

We know one thing: with one JSOW C the CC is out.

But why the GBU31/3, fuze set to Ground/ delay is unable to destroy the same CC? Strange no?

Edited November 19, 2022 by Spirale

[Hobel]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Spirale:

Strange, i don't have the same results. JSWO one hit and CC is destroyed...Or may be am i missing something?

The other track is for the GBU31/3, CC seems to be destroyed too....so i wonder why, in, my first post, CC was intact??

JSOWVSCC.trk 1.38 MB · 2 Downloads GBU313VSCC.trk 1.57 MB · 3 Downloads

hm I have looked at the JSOW track, by me the CC only burned.

crazy

waht is see in you track
 

 

 

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Spirale:

But why the GBU31/3, fuze set to Ground/ delay is unable to destroy the same CC? Strange no?

well as I said I also only needed 1 GBU31 pen

 

oh yes do not use GND delay

ONLY      GND

in F16

look:

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Hobel

[Northstar98]

4 hours ago, Hobel said:

hm I have looked at the JSOW track, by me the CC only burned.

crazy

waht is see in you track
 

 

 

well as I said I also only needed 1 GBU31 pen

 

oh yes do not use GND delay

ONLY      GND

in F16

look:

 

 

Matches my results thus far - at least with the Hornet.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Northstar98

[Spirale]

11 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Matches my results thus far - at least with the Hornet.

 

Yes my bad it is a burning animation not a "destroyed" burning animation .

@Northstar: you still can't destroy the CC with one GBU31/3 with a F16? Why is it plane dependent?

@Hobel: i will test again with the fuze set to "GRND" . However it seems logical to me to put a delay on the fuze so that it has time to penetrate

[Northstar98]

On 11/20/2022 at 8:40 AM, Spirale said:

Yes my bad it is a burning animation not a "destroyed" burning animation .

@Northstar: you still can't destroy the CC with one GBU31/3 with a F16? Why is it plane dependent?

Funny enough, I've just done that with the fuse set to GND and no delay - I've even managed to reproduce it (see F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_INST_1.trk and F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_INST_2.trk).

When setting the fuse to GND with a delay (I used 60 ms), I get mixed results: I've managed to destroy it with 1 (F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_1.trk) sometimes it takes 2 (see F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_2.trk and F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_3.trk), though sometimes I don't manage to destroy it, even with 2 (see F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_4.trk (excuse my awful flying on this one) and F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_5.trk).

I've also destroyed it with the fuse set to AIR, with a single impact (the bomb seems to have gone through the collision model, but how penetration works is a simple animation, so it slowed in mid air, exploding above the bunker itself - see F-16_GBU-31V3_AIR_1.trk), but it seems that most of the time I fail to destroy it even with 2 bombs (see F-16_GBU-31V3_AIR_2.trk - note how they both appear to penetrate the Command Centre before detonating).

 

Regardless, my hunch is that culprit might be how the fusing is set up between different aircraft. I didn't think the AIR fuse setting was implemented (it still impacts the Command Centre, without an airburst EDIT: it actually behaves the same as in GND with a delay).

F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_INST_1.trk F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_INST_2.trk F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_2.trk F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_1.trk F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_3.trk F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_4.trk F-16_GBU-31V3_GND_60MS_5.trk F-16_GBU-31V3_AIR_1.trk

F-16_GBU-31V3_AIR_2.trk

Edited November 21, 2022 by Northstar98

[QuiGon]

On 11/20/2022 at 9:40 AM, Spirale said:

Yes my bad it is a burning animation not a "destroyed" burning animation .

Oh wow, that explains a lot of the seemingly contradicting results documented in this thread. Burning doesn't mean the building is destroyed at all! It just indicates that the building took some damage, nothing more. It's also just temporary and will disappear again after a few minutes, leaving the building seemingly undamaged to the observer. Even worse: In multiplayer the burning can only be seen by the player that did the damage to the building. Other players won't even see the burning and will see the building standing just fine.

EDIT: From my own experience from killing hundreds of comms bunkers and also ammo bunkers over the past year I can say that a single GBU-31 Penetrator is enough to kill the comms bunker and two of them are enough to kill the ammo bunker. At least when used from the Hornet or Warthog. With the Viper I got some mixed results when the new fuzing options were added about ~2 months ago, but with GND fuzing I so far managed to get the same results that I have with the Hornet and Warthog.
The GBU-24 seems to bring pretty similar results, although I have only limited experience with that, which is not sufficent to make a definite statement. Unfortunately I don't have any recent experience with JSOWs.

Edited November 21, 2022 by QuiGon