DCS VR Performance Optimization

[GPatricks]

What are you using to create the graph? What plane, what map? Can try and reproduce, but need the exact parameters...

 

[evanswillo]

The Graph is produced from the data taken from running Presentmon trace for 30 seconds, the plane was the new remastered F5 sat a Batumi. Nothing special.

I have tried all sorts of changes to DCS and Windows nothing seems to get rid of these micro stutters.

If you are not familiar with Presentmon check out GamersNexus 

null

Be very happy if you could talk a quick look.

Edited December 17, 2024 by evanswillo

[evanswillo]

Here is a identical looking graph from a few seconds ago.

Exactly the same pattern.

I am sure you are aware to VR at 90hz we need Frametime to be constant around 11.1 ms these spike to above 22ms are going to be noticed as microstutters when I get into VR.

Its interesting that people on both Intel and AMD CPU's are seeing stutters.

I have read most Stutter post even down to reducing mouse freq.

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by evanswillo

[GPatricks]

45 minutes ago, evanswillo said:

The Graph is produced from the data taken from running Presentmon trace for 30 seconds, the plane was the new remastered F5 sat a Batumi. Nothing special.

I have tried all sorts of changes to DCS and Windows nothing seems to get rid of these micro stutters.

If you are not familiar with Presentmon check out GamersNexus 

null

Be very happy if you could talk a quick look.

I will, thanks for the info. If possible please try something like the Su25T mission posted here, or using a base plane Cold & Dark most everyone has..( I don't own the F5, but have 90% of all else). Just want to keep it Apples to Apples, and also your graphics settings of course 9best to just use VR preset for testing comparisons).

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by GPatricks

[evanswillo]

This is from a cold Su25T at Batumi Parking

Not some many spike but still some appearing in the 30sec capture

null

Edited December 17, 2024 by evanswillo

[GPatricks]

Don't have a 25T "Cold start at Batumi parking'' mission I can find, just one for Syria. Also having trouble with too many FT data points in the PresentMon CSV, have to find a setting to reduce from the 1872 points it's producing for 30 seconds.. but even with that don't get spikes like yours (but again, not Apples for Apples until we are looking at the same thing). In the SU25T Plasma Torture mission, you engage autopilot the second you enter, don't touch anything, then start recording as you cross over to land... should you choose to run it.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by GPatricks

[evanswillo]

Thanks for taking the time to look at this issue.

I just import the csv file into Google sheets then add a filter across the whole of the top line then create a chart that can be easily filtered and displayed.

I can see from your signature were are using the same drivers my windows build 

Edition    Windows 11 Home
Version    24H2
Installed on    ‎15/‎12/‎2024
OS build    26100.2605
Experience    Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.36.0

Please could you share your settings for DCS and any other thing you have changed from default.
 

 

 

[GPatricks]

1 hour ago, evanswillo said:

Thanks for taking the time to look at this issue.

I just import the csv file into Google sheets then add a filter across the whole of the top line then create a chart that can be easily filtered and displayed.

I can see from your signature were are using the same drivers my windows build 

Edition    Windows 11 Home
Version    24H2
Installed on    ‎15/‎12/‎2024
OS build    26100.2605
Experience    Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.36.0

Please could you share your settings for DCS and any other thing you have changed from default.
 

 

 

Happy to, but more important may be what I do outside of DCS. For instance, on this new Win11 install I decided to try the "Atlas OS" Win11 tuning app. Very simple and automated, removed a lot of Win11 bloat and unneeded "features". I actually did it a few days in (have to override an initial check) and it didn't mess with any programs or installations. Second is how I install NVidia drivers. I use DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller) to wipe all traces of the current (initially installed by Win11) driver, then install new ones using NVCleanstall in the clean installation mode. Just video drivers, no GeForce Experience, no Telemetry, nothing. Below  is a graph of FT during Plazma Torture with your VR settings and then what my normal VR settings are, though I did save yours as one of my Custom setups.. Shadows at max are a definite FR hound.

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by GPatricks

[GPatricks]

This is Plazma Torture using my regular VR settings (shown above), PresentMon started (just like above) when I went over the coastline. 

 

 

[evanswillo]

OK I have the time to try Atlas, let me get that setup and see if that helps me, again thanks for the input, I will get back to you once we are back running.

[actually_fred]

7 hours ago, evanswillo said:

I am sure you are aware to VR at 90hz we need Frametime to be constant around 11.1 ms these spike to above 22ms are going to be noticed as microstutters when I get into VR.

 

Tools that are not specifically made for OpenXR can not produce absolute numbers that are meaningful for framerate/interval targets: https://github.com/fredemmott/XRFrameTools/blob/main/README.md#why-should-i-use-this-instead-of-my-favorite-tool-for-non-vr-games

It can show when the mirror window framerate is spiking which can correlate with XR issues, but they're measuring the wrong thing (specifically 'Present' is not part of the OpenXR frame loop - it's used to show the mirror window on the screen)

[evanswillo]

Hi Fred,

My Frametime graphs are from my system now before my VR1 arrives and so I do not have any VR specific software loaded yet.

I thought as frametime is important to get 90hz I would test out a fresh windows and dcs install first.

I have been unable to get rid of these Frametime spikes, trying everything before my VR1 arrives to ensure it has the best platform to perform on.

[GPatricks]

21 minutes ago, evanswillo said:

OK I have the time to try Atlas, let me get that setup and see if that helps me, again thanks for the input, I will get back to you once we are back running.

Let me know how it goes. Want to ask about the Titan and how it and it's Hand Tracking are also!

 

[actually_fred]

If you're able to reach 90 non-VR that's a good starting point, but:
- you might not be able to at all, depending on your monitor, and driver settings (especially vsync and related technologies)
- if you are able to, you won't be getting the same performance with the VR1 - it is harder to produce the same framerate in VR than non-VR
- the issues you're seeing might not actually occur in VR

Of course, aiming to get things working non-VR first is good - just the target ends up being somewhat arbitrary and potentially unreachable.

If that's fine with you, great  

 

If you're happy to sink in more time, you could also install varjo base; skip the headset setup, then click 'analytics window', then 'simulate' - you can now launch DCS in OpenXR, inside Varjo's simulator without a headset.

Won't be entirely accurate for the VR1, but is as close as you can do without a headset.

[GPatricks]

44 minutes ago, evanswillo said:

Hi Fred,

My Frametime graphs are from my system now before my VR1 arrives and so I do not have any VR specific software loaded yet.

I thought as frametime is important to get 90hz I would test out a fresh windows and dcs install first.

I have been unable to get rid of these Frametime spikes, trying everything before my VR1 arrives to ensure it has the best platform to perform on.

All this was you in 2D? OMG.... How did I miss that??  100% on me,

"I have just completed a fresh windows and dcs install in preparation for new VR1 Headset arrival.

During some 2D testing, simple one airplane sat on runway cold, I am seeing a repeated spike in Frametime and CPU Busy.

This pattern is seen no matter what changes I make to DCS or PC"

Edited December 17, 2024 by GPatricks

[evanswillo]

Installing Varjo Base is an interesting option, not sure if Artur would approve lol.

But 100% you are correct, this monitor I am using is an old 2560x1440 60hz.

I was able to reach 90 fps when using my old G2 and OPENXR Toolkit, so it will be interesting to test out the VR1 and the Somnium Software.

 

 

[GPatricks]

2 minutes ago, evanswillo said:

Installing Varjo Base is an interesting option, not sure if Artur would approve lol.

But 100% you are correct, this monitor I am using is an old 2560x1440 60hz.

I was able to reach 90 fps when using my old G2 and OPENXR Toolkit, so it will be interesting to test out the VR1 and the Somnium Software.

 

 

Just for a point of data, on my 2560x1440 (144hz) in 2D, under High pre-set but with all scenery sliders full right, it stays at 180 FPS and FT was a low of 4.8, high of 6.6, pretty much 95% at 5.5ms on Plazmatest mission...

[evanswillo]

Thats fine as I said this is all prep work for VR1 arrival. I have just installed Atlas just have to download DCS next and test again. Thankyou for your suggestions, I'll update you once I have the next batch of results.

[evanswillo]

OK here is the first Graph no sign of the High Frametime I saw prior to Atlas build, the second graph has been filtered to only show frames above 11.2 the only spike I can see is only for 12.30, so its looking so much better than the previous fresh windows builds.

Thankyou for suggesting Atlas.

All I need now is for the VR1 to arrive so I can really start to play and enjoy DCS again.

 

nullnull

[Ready]

My stability has improved somewhat. Made quite some changes. 

The most recent changes;

1. Removed Nvidia Shader Cache
2. Disabled an additional number of Windows Service
   • AMD 3D V-cache performance optimizer
   • AMD Crash Defender
   • AppX Deployment Service
   • Asus Update Check
   • cbdhsvc (clipboard)
   • Diagnostic services (Policy, Service, System)
   • Power Service
   • Telephony
   • Remote Access
3. Disabled Microsoft Data collection
4. Moved Windows Pagefile to fastest SSD
5. Checked savedgames/scripts/hooks folder for junk
6. Excluded further folders and processes from Defender. Disable Defender real-time during gaming.
7. Process Lasso
   1. Removed DCS and other DCS-related processes from core 0
   2. Reduced CPU priority and CPU affinity for unimportant processes (many like; searchapp/indexer, dropbox, onedrive, tablets, etc) and restricted them further using CPU sets.
8. Checked NVCP settings
   1. Low Latency: Ultra
   2. VR pre-rendered frames 3 (tried 1)
   3. Negative LOD Bias: Clamp

Clean install

I will perform a clean W10 or W11 (haven't made up my mind yet) install on a new SSD soon and will start running DCS from this new OS. The last 3 years I did a bunch of hardware changes (2x CPU, 2x GPU and systemboard upgrade) and tried every VR tool and mod available under the sun. So I heavily tweaked my PC and think time has come to do a clean install because with all the current tweaking I think I should be able to have better performance with my current hardware. I might have just messed around too much in the first year where I really did not know what I was doing (I somewhat know a bit better now, but still am a kettlebell compared to some of the guru's) I now pretty much know what I need to do to get an optimized system. So I will soon start from scratch and will keep a log of all the changes and their impact on my DCS VR performance. I will also give Atlas a go, did not know about that one. Thanks for the tip!

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Ready

[evanswillo]

Thanks, this is a really good thread with a lot of excellent suggestions, I will update as soon as VR1 has been installed.

[Ready]

@actually_fred I checked the intial version of XRFrameTools v0.0.2. Great looking tool. I have some feedback on it if you like.

Definitely something fishy going on with my system.. I see very big spikes when OBS is recording. 

When I put the focus on DCS and have XRFT running besides it I see lags/stutters in the XRFT Live Data. It pauses for a second or two and then displays the graph for a second or two, then it pauses again and repeats this cycle. When I make XRFT the active window it keeps running stable. 

 

First log is on Caucasus, Started with OBS recording ON, then I disabled it, then I closed OBS. 

Second log is on 132nd MP server with OBS recording ON. This one is more stable, but I still see some huge Frame Interval spikes.

 

OBS recording ON and recording (Caucasus A-10C Cold and Dark)

OBS ON, not recording (Caucasus A-10C Cold and Dark)

OBS OFF (Caucasus A-10C Cold and Dark)

 

132nd MP Server cold and Dark, OBS recording

DCS 2024-12-17 22-00-14.3848367 UTC.XRFrameToolsBinLog

DCS 2024-12-17 22-14-03.4955550 UTC.XRFrameToolsBinLog

Spikey Spikes on a CPU torture mission, OBS recording ON

Edited December 17, 2024 by Ready

[Ready]

Additional Tweaking 

1. Disable updaters for all aplications
1. Disable Power Throttling. Local Group Policy Editor > Administrative Templates > System > Power Management > Power Throttling Settings > Turn off Power Throttling > Enabled
2. Reducing Latency and Interupts: PowerSettingsExplorer: Processor performance Time Check Interval -> 5.000 for active Power scheme THIS WILL DRAMATICALLY REDUCE YOUR LATENCY!
3. Device  Manager | Software devices | Microsoft Device Association Root Enumerator: Disable. 
    
4. Process Lasso
   1. Performance Mode Enabled
   2. Disable SMT (automatically disabled by Gaming Mode in Bios enabled)
   3. Separating DCS and VR-related processes from all other processes and keep their cores clean
   4. Manage processes for all users ON
   5. Bitsum Highest performance ON
   6. Power > Performance Mode > Change Power Profile when Engaged ON
   7. DCS.exe: CPU Priority > Always > REALTIME (also checking HIGH)
   8. DCS.exe: I/O Priority > Always > High
   9. DCS.exe: Power Profile > Bitsum Highest Performance
   10. CPU affinity: all (except certain W10 processes) processes to last 2 Cores, DCS and Varjo to Cores 1-2-3-4-5, Core 0 empty
   11. CPU Priority: Not used processes: Idle
   12. CPU sets: conform CPU affinity
   13. ProBalance ON,
       1. ProBalance advanced options: 9% ,3% ,1% (Default: 11%, 8%, 4%) to be more agressive
       2. Excluded processes: (clear all and only add conhost.exe, wt.exe)
   14. SmartTrim: Enabled, SmartTrim Options
       1. Trim Working Sets Enabled
       2. Purge Standby List: Enabled
       3. Purge System File Cache: Enabled
       4. Only Purge while in Performance Mode: Enabled, Purge when Free RAM is less than 50% of RAM
       5. Exclusions: audiodg.exe, crss.exe, dwm.exe, fontdrvhost.exe, lsass.exe, smss.exe, svchost.exe, winlogon.exe

 

Results: Running OBS recording on our MP server I am now getting pretty stable performance, still a bit spikey, which I will further dig into(expecting some latency elsewhere in Windows). 

Overclocking of my GPU gives about 4-5 more FPS, but less stability.

null

Edited December 20, 2024 by Ready

[evanswillo]

Well time to get seriousnull

[Ready]

23 minutes ago, evanswillo said:

Well time to get seriousnull

Yikes!! Have fun! Jealous!

Edited December 20, 2024 by Ready