Pico 4: how to set it up for DCS?

[kerlcat]

On 4/13/2023 at 3:40 PM, VirusAM said:

Guys, 

I think I need a bit of help. I retried the Pico 4 again (an offer on Amazon) deciding to give more time to sort problems out this time.

I have big issues with it and I tried multiple things.

1) I tried with Wifi with a dedicated router I use near my PC. It is cabled at 1gbit/s to the main router. PC connected via cable and Pico 4 with this Wifi (dedicated to the Pico, no other devices connected). It is an old Fritzbox 3590 I already had  ( I don't want to spend money on a wifi 6 router only  for this). Connection is reported to 866mbit/s in Virtual Desktop . In DCS performance is good with VD ULTRA settings (72fps fixed in basic instant action missions) but the visuals are quite blurry (hud and mfds) and above all there is an huge laggy mess, every movement is not smoothed and the visuals are very strange, like stuttering but not due to DCS low performance (as said 72fps fixed)

I tried also the Pico streaming assistant in Wifi mode and the results are the same.

2) I tried with USB cable using reverse tethering and DCS didn't start in the headset as every 3/4 seconds virtual desktop disconnected.

3) I tried with usb c ethernet adapter, and I have the same results as 1) but with less laggy movements.

 

Is there some Virtual Desktop or SteamVR setting do I need to change to improve my  experience?

Is there an easy and reliable way to use the Pico 4 with usb C connection directly to the PC?

Also in many videos I see a performance overlay in Virtual Desktop. How to enable it?I cannot find any way.

If I cannot find a way to solve my issues I think I will abandon VR for the good  and go to a big screen like the LG GR95QE

Thanks

 

 

Hi VirusAM, 

I have similar system with yours and also just upgraded from Rift S to Pico4. It runs pretty smooth now after I changed router from dual-band to tri-band Wifi6. 

It might be not the identical case to you. But should worth you to consider the lag issue might be caused by network since you 've tried so many options.

Tether via type C should be the best, while it's a bit tricky to set it up with VD. You might have one from Amazon to try it and could return if it won't solve your problem. 

If you have chance to try it, you should assign one band (one of 5G, or 6G) dedicated for headset only. 

It's so great to wear headset without tethering meanwhile keeping wireless connection about 1200mpbs. BTW I am using Ultra/H.264 w/o buffer/SSW. Also tried Godlike, still works fine. 

Good lucky and hope you could enjoy your new headset eventually. Pico4 has much better clarity v.s. Rift S and ... it's so damn cheap. Believe it would be proven just config trick for you. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by kerlcat

[mrsylvestre]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:43 PM, SebastianR said:

I'm using ALVR via usb and works better than streaming assistant and Virtual Desktop

Hi Sebastian, thank you for suggesting ALVR !

Please could your share your experience with it ? Which version did you use and could you share what you found to be the most important settings in ALVR and which values you did put in ?

I managed to install ALVR on my PC and Pico 4 and while its works reasonably well over WIFI in the SteamVR Home and racing games after some tuning, it is still inferior to vanilla VD (godlike)/SteamVR on MSFS2020 and DCS. I used one of the latest nightlies (ALVR v20.0.0-dev11) as the latest release version from February only seems to include a client for the Quest (alvr_client_quest.apk). With the default settings, the bandwith used was quite low (10-30 Mbit/s) and the display was very blocky. Forcing the bandwith to ~90-150 Mbits/s with the min/max bandwith settings improves things a lot in SteamVR Home and games (quality close to VD) but not so much in flight sims (resolution still not that good, stutter and, in DCS, flashing menus and the occasional crash). 

Also, the current nightlies have one general preset for the resolution (such as low - medium - high etc) and two advanced resolution settings : one called "transcoding view resolution" and one called "emulated headset view resolution" but I don't know what these do (or if I should even touch these...).

[Wyverex]

21 minutes ago, mrsylvestre said:

I used one of the latest nightlies (ALVR v20.0.0-dev11) as the latest release version from February only seems to include a client for the Quest (alvr_client_quest.apk).

When you download the ALVR v20 nightly for the streamer, there is also a generic alvr_client_android.apk included. Download that on your Pico and use that as the client. I did that yesterday and I had good performance

[mrsylvestre]

Thank you but that is what I already use (alvr_client_android.apk), and I also use the corresponding nightly build of the server on the PC, downloaded yesterday as well. Sorry if that was ambiguous.

The performance is not that great on my end, though. By default, it seems to default to very low bitrates, I have to force higher rates in the advanced settings to get better results. It could be that my wifi connection is not good enough (it is a dedicated router, PC wired, but it is wifi 5 ac, not wifi 6 ax). However for some reason Virtual Desktop seems to tolerate it better than ALVR does. Perhaps I should try ALVR over USB (opening another can of worms ;-))

[SebastianR]

5 hours ago, mrsylvestre said:

Thank you but that is what I already use (alvr_client_android.apk), and I also use the corresponding nightly build of the server on the PC, downloaded yesterday as well. Sorry if that was ambiguous.

The performance is not that great on my end, though. By default, it seems to default to very low bitrates, I have to force higher rates in the advanced settings to get better results. It could be that my wifi connection is not good enough (it is a dedicated router, PC wired, but it is wifi 5 ac, not wifi 6 ax). However for some reason Virtual Desktop seems to tolerate it better than ALVR does. Perhaps I should try ALVR over USB (opening another can of worms ;-))

But i'm using usb connection so battery keep a cuple of hours and with more bitrate the compression is less visible.

From default settings of ALVR i'd change:

resolution 2144x2144 (or 2592x2592)

framerate 72hz

bitrate constant 150mbps

codec hvec

color correction: sharpening 0.50

protocol tcp

On pico4 headset:

The most crazy setting: 

on lab: battery save (it's make all more clear because i think it's focused pixel density in the middle)

72hz vs 90hz; 72 i'd percibe is less blurry 

on wifi maybe 80-90 mbps will work

[mrsylvestre]

Thank you very much, Sebastian! I will try that when I get a chance, next weekend.

*** Edit after the weekend ***

Confirmed, Sebastian's settings above are a very good basis to start using ALVR on the PICO 4. I found that ALVR is perhaps a little bit more picky about the quality of the link between the HMD and the PC than Virtual Desktop, but it works very well with a dedicated 40€ router (a good 5 GHz AC one can be sufficient as long as it can sustain a stable 150 Mbps, Wi-Fi 6 AX is not required) or through ethernet over USB. Thanks again.

Edited April 24, 2023 by mrsylvestre

[DrCarloPedersoli]

Hello savvy people of the internet! I think I need some help.
I have no option but to use the Pico 4 with VD in the USB-tethering setup (router is on the floor above), but sooner or later my PC inevitably crashes.
Recently it is rather later with HEVC codec enabled in VD. Even before that I did everything VD asked me to, uninstalled my antivirus (Avast), regularly set the new ethernet connection to private network. Apart from that I have tried all drivers I found recommended (USB RNDIS Adapter, USB RNDIS6 Adapter, Remote NDIS based Internet Sharing Device, Remote NDIS Compatible Device), but the problem still persists: After a while (30-45 minutes is my guess) the PC crashes and starts a reboot; not even a BSOD.
Have I forgot anything? Or has any of you found another solution?
Some people recommend using an ethernet-to-USB-C cable instead of the USB-to-USB-C cable. Now my stupidest question: Is the ethernet end of said cable supposed to go into your PC or into the router?
Any help is greatly appreciated; it would be a real pity if I had to send the Pico 4 back

[Thinder]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:28 PM, Timmy51 said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong: Do both Pico 4 SA and VD not have OpenXR runtime, but they rely on either the Oculus app or SteamVR to get already processed frames (similar to WMR for SteamVR)? Is there any news if they're going to implement it themselves?

You can use Steam VR to play DCS with the Pico4 and its app, Virtual Desktop, in fact it is quite simple to set up.

Go to your Open Beta folder, bin-mt folder (for multi-threading), create a shortcut cut it and paste in on your desktop  and add the line --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR after (space) "D:\OtherGames\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe". It should look something like that: "D:\OtherGames\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR

Then start 1) Streaming Assistant, start 2) Steam VR to detect and link your headset to your PC, then 3) Virtual Desktop.

In the Games page of Virtual Desktop, add the exe you just made a shortcut of, it should start automatically when prompted, you can chose to use Steam VR for processing frames or not, you can leave every option to default or play around with it, personally I leave it alone.

I use Steam VR Beta, and after finally setting everything up to play DCS, I done my first tests in multithreading/VR, it looks rather good, a ton better than with the first "DCS VR" update, I experience no lag, flickering or any loss of image quality but I had to boost/OC my GPU (good case cooling helps a lot) to get similar performances to where I was before the first DCS update.

NOTE that apparently Microsoft is messing around AMD drivers, one Windows 11 update came with some settings which prevented the GPU to boost and if I wanted to do it manually, I had crashes after crashes with the mention "driver Time Out".

The solution to that is to 1) disable Windows update before you play, 2) use an app to disable Multiplane Overlay (MPO), a solution designed for NVIDIA GPUs which works with AMD as well, and something else, I received a message from AMD asking me to check on my drivers as Windows update replaces them with their own. Something of a cold war is going on... Disabling Multiplane Overlay (MPO)

Since I've done that I was able to O.C my card quiet well and experienced no adverse effects, my GPU runs within thermal limits, the maximum recorded under heavy load was 81°C, but then again I have an excellent case cooling (4 fans in, one fan out + CPU cooler fan) and took care to adjust the Fan speed Curve.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Thinder

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, DrCarloPedersoli said:

Hello savvy people of the internet! I think I need some help.
I have no option but to use the Pico 4 with VD in the USB-tethering setup (router is on the floor above), but sooner or later my PC inevitably crashes.
Recently it is rather later with HEVC codec enabled in VD. Even before that I did everything VD asked me to, uninstalled my antivirus (Avast), regularly set the new ethernet connection to private network. Apart from that I have tried all drivers I found recommended (USB RNDIS Adapter, USB RNDIS6 Adapter, Remote NDIS based Internet Sharing Device, Remote NDIS Compatible Device), but the problem still persists: After a while (30-45 minutes is my guess) the PC crashes and starts a reboot; not even a BSOD.
Have I forgot anything? Or has any of you found another solution?
Some people recommend using an ethernet-to-USB-C cable instead of the USB-to-USB-C cable. Now my stupidest question: Is the ethernet end of said cable supposed to go into your PC or into the router?
Any help is greatly appreciated; it would be a real pity if I had to send the Pico 4 back

Pico 4 running on a PC requires a connection to the PC, either Wi-Fi or USB, use the fastest USB hub you have, 3.2 (blue) is recommenced.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Thinder

[Qcumber]

3 hours ago, DrCarloPedersoli said:

I have no option but to use the Pico 4 with VD in the USB-tethering setup (router is on the floor above), but sooner or later my PC inevitably crashes.

You can get a dedicated WiFi 6 router for about £40. Connect your pc to it with ethernet and your Pico 4 via wifi. Don't give up in the Pico 4. It takes a little while to set up properly but gets great results.  Checkout the VD discord channel for support. They respond very quickly. https://www.vrdesktop.net/

[DrCarloPedersoli]

Am 23.4.2023 um 20:51 schrieb Qcumber:

You can get a dedicated WiFi 6 router for about £40. Connect your pc to it with ethernet and your Pico 4 via wifi. Don't give up in the Pico 4. It takes a little while to set up properly but gets great results.  Checkout the VD discord channel for support. They respond very quickly. https://www.vrdesktop.net/

Thanks for the encouragement. It may actually make a difference since I am rather on the fence about the Pico 4. It's a mystery to me why the didn't give it DP connectivity and thus address PCVR customers...

As for that dedicated router setup: I've read quite a bit about it. It seems to be rather sophisticated to configure (at least for people not particularly experienced with network issues). Have you had experience with that?

[kerlcat]

@DrCarloPedersoli Also doubted pico4 missing DP connection. Guess PCVR market is too small to pay back their investment in this feature. After all they count on us to purchase SW from their store as they won’t make a lot from HW itself.

After read many encouraging posts here, bought one and quite satisfy with it after a few weeks of use, especially considering the price. 

Streaming is quite easy and deliver decent image quality(at least a big leap v.s. Rift S via DP), after I replaced router to tri-band and assign one of 5G band to VR only. That’s all, no more config with router needed. Each time just need to open app of VD from headset.

Edited April 24, 2023 by kerlcat

[Thinder]

51 minutes ago, DrCarloPedersoli said:

 It's a mystery to me why the didn't give it DP connectivity and thus address PCVR customers...

Probably because they came to the same conclusion than myself, for the resolution and number of pixels, doubled with the performances of USB 3.2, it is just not needed.

[Pico4DCS]

Am 23.4.2023 um 18:50 schrieb Thinder:

Then start 1) Streaming Assistant, start 2) Steam VR to detect and link your headset to your PC, then 3) Virtual Desktop.

Hi, i'm new to VR with DCS and looking for advice. I can't get this to work?! Could you be more specific please? If i connect the HMD with Streaming Assistant, SteamVR is already running. If i then try to start Virtual Desktop it can't run besides Streaming Assistant and will shut it down. So why run Streaming Assistant in the first place?
And when i make a shortcut with start parameters, but only link the dcs.exe directly to Virtual Desktop, those start parameters won't have any effect because the launcher only uses the .exe file.

Thanks!

Edited April 26, 2023 by Pico4DCS

[Qcumber]

21 minutes ago, Pico4DCS said:

If i then try to start Virtual Desktop it can't run besides Streaming Assistant and will shut it down. So why run Streaming Assistant in the first place

If you are using VD then you don't need streaming assistant. Open VD on your PC and on the Pico 4 and make sure they are connected. You need to be connected to a dedicated router at 5Ghz WIFI (Pico 4) and through ethernet (PC). If you have DCS steam version then open it through the VD games tab on the Pico 4 app. If you have DCS stand alone then just open it from the desktop. If you have VR enabled it will automatically open steam VR. Or you can add a desktop short cut with the "force_vr" link. If you are using open beta you will need to set up 2 separate short cuts for MT and ST depending on which one you want to use. I hope this helps. 

[Thinder]

3 hours ago, Pico4DCS said:

Hi, i'm new to VR with DCS and looking for advice. I can't get this to work?! Could you be more specific please? If i connect the HMD with Streaming Assistant, SteamVR is already running. If i then try to start Virtual Desktop it can't run besides Streaming Assistant and will shut it down. So why run Streaming Assistant in the first place?
And when i make a shortcut with start parameters, but only link the dcs.exe directly to Virtual Desktop, those start parameters won't have any effect because the launcher only uses the .exe file.

Thanks!

 

I don't have this problem.

First I am using Steam VR Beta and it doesn't start on its own, second once in the Room, I have the option to start Elite Dangerous or Virtual Desktop, since I use my PC for cable connection USB, the option is offered by Streaming Assistant in the first place.

Then if it is not ON, Steam VR won't detect the headset and I am not using the Steam version of DCS but Open Beta MT.

  

3 hours ago, Qcumber said:

If you are using VD then you don't need streaming assistant. Open VD on your PC and on the Pico 4 and make sure they are connected. You need to be connected to a dedicated router at 5Ghz WIFI (Pico 4) and through ethernet (PC). If you have DCS steam version then open it through the VD games tab on the Pico 4 app. If you have DCS stand alone then just open it from the desktop. If you have VR enabled it will automatically open steam VR. Or you can add a desktop short cut with the "force_vr" link. If you are using open beta you will need to set up 2 separate short cuts for MT and ST depending on which one you want to use. I hope this helps. 

Not in my case, VR is enabled in DCS but if I used the desktop shortcut only it will start in 2D, Virtual Desktop on its own is not going to do anything as simple as that.

I have two DCS desktop Icons, one for 2D one for VR, I used the 2D icon for replays but it is not needed, the VR icon starts in 2D when prompted from the desktop.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Thinder

[Pico4DCS]

@Thinder I'm running SteamVR beta too and i'm pretty sure it is supposed to start up automatically after Pico's Steaming Assistant connected the HMD via Wifi or USB. There must be something messed up with your Windows installation if it doesn't work this way. If i remember correctly, during installation, Streaming Assistant checks for SteamVR and if everything is in order?
What really troubles me, is the screenshot you shared about Virtual Desktop (??). Why does it look so different than mine?

@QcumberThanks, that works as intended. I was actually thinking Thinder found a special trick or tweak, but it doesn't make any sense.

[Thinder]

11 hours ago, Pico4DCS said:

@Thinder I'm running SteamVR beta too and i'm pretty sure it is supposed to start up automatically after Pico's Steaming Assistant connected the HMD via Wifi or USB.

It doesn't start in VR without Streaming assistant connection as I said. If Steam VR doesn't have support from Streaming assistant it won't detect the headset on its own, you can chose to start it yourself once your headset is "green" with Streaming assistant or wait.

Quote

What really troubles me, is the screenshot you shared about Virtual Desktop (??). Why does it look so different than mine?

I have no clue, my O.S and other settings are fine, you're the one who asked for support and had issues, so you should check yours.

One thing for sure, I download both Steam VR and Virtual Desktop from Steam library, I can start Elite Dangerous from both the Room and Steam Library like Steam VR or Virtual desktop, those are my options.

For DCS As I explained, I created a shortcut in DCS Beta MT, renamed it before cutting and pasting it on my desktop but it won't start in VR without Virtual Desktop, something I use to watch replays in my screen after logging out, so I added the shortcut to Virtual Desktop game page.

The Folder user/XYZ/Saved Games/DCS Open Beta should be renamed Backup. If this still doesn't make sense, ask support, those are their instructions.

[Peedee]

13 hours ago, Pico4DCS said:

@Thinder I'm running SteamVR beta too and i'm pretty sure it is supposed to start up automatically after Pico's Steaming Assistant connected the HMD via Wifi or USB. There must be something messed up with your Windows installation if it doesn't work this way. If i remember correctly, during installation, Streaming Assistant checks for SteamVR and if everything is in order?
What really troubles me, is the screenshot you shared about Virtual Desktop (??). Why does it look so different than mine?

@QcumberThanks, that works as intended. I was actually thinking Thinder found a special trick or tweak, but it doesn't make any sense.

Thinder´s Virtual Desktop picture looks different than yours (and different to the rest of us too probably) because he is not using the right Virtual Desktop program on his PC. He says he downloaded it from Steam and that is not the correct version for Pico 4. The Pico 4 version for installing on your PC is on this webpage for free : https://www.vrdesktop.net/

So, You are not supposed to use both Streaming assistant and Virtual Desktop. Just Virtual desktop. That’s the easy way. Ah, and I see Qcumber already pointed you in the right direction.  

[Sabre]

Hey guys! Now that there's news that Pico 4 fully supports OpenXR, what's changed? How should I use Pico 4 in DCS now? Does Pico 4 now support Safer neck? Anyone here flying with Safer neck on Pico 4? After the shake down, which headset might be better for DCS: Reverb G2 or Pico 4? Do you still like Pico 4, will my RTX 4080 be enough for it?

Thanks!

Edited April 27, 2023 by Sabre

[Peedee]

12 hours ago, Sabre said:

Hey guys! Now that there's news that Pico 4 fully supports OpenXR, what's changed? How should I use Pico 4 in DCS now? Does Pico 4 now support Safer neck? Anyone here flying with Safer neck on Pico 4? After the shake down, which headset might be better for DCS: Reverb G2 or Pico 4? Do you still like Pico 4, will my RTX 4080 be enough for it?

Thanks!

 

 Can’t answer those questions. But do you have a link to the news about Pico4 and open Xr?

[Hillman]

1 hour ago, Peedee said:

 Can’t answer those questions. But do you have a link to the news about Pico4 and open Xr?

https://mixed-news.com/en/pico-4-now-offers-full-openxr-support-why-this-is-important/

https://www.picoxr.com/magic/eco/runtime/release/63eda4b428f1c3044230f7d3?appType=picoglobalwebsite&magic_page_no=1

I can't get it to work without SteamVR when running OpenXR-mode though so I can't see any changes after this was announced.

[Koziolek]

15 hours ago, Sabre said:

Hey guys! Now that there's news that Pico 4 fully supports OpenXR, what's changed?

 

isn't that it supports Open XR only for games in the headset and not for PC?

[kerlcat]

15 hours ago, Sabre said:

Hey guys! Now that there's news that Pico 4 fully supports OpenXR, what's changed? How should I use Pico 4 in DCS now? Does Pico 4 now support Safer neck? Anyone here flying with Safer neck on Pico 4? After the shake down, which headset might be better for DCS: Reverb G2 or Pico 4? Do you still like Pico 4, will my RTX 4080 be enough for it?

Thanks!

 

My 3090 worked fine with Pico4. So shouldn't be worse with your 4080. You may find comparison on Youtube between G2 & Pico4. I am good to keep later one as it's much better than my preivous Rift S. No idea with your other questions. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by kerlcat

[RealDCSpilot]

@Sabre @Koziolek The news about Pico and OpenXR support is only about native OpenXR API support for standalone Android VR apps and games. You can ignore this. In PCVR mode the VR runtime on the PC manages which API is getting used and SteamVR as a runtime, can do both, the OpenVR API and the OpenXR API. This works for a couple of years already. In SteamVR settings, you can check if SteamVR is set to do that. It shows "Current OpenXR runtime: SteamVR" if everything is in order.

Edited April 29, 2023 by RealDCSpilot