Newbie... Harrier vs F/A-18

[IdleMegaPixel]

Hi All,

Newbie here! I've spent a lot of time on MSFS (until a few months ago as I've had issues with my joystick so I thought, why not treat myself? I've just ordered the HOTAS Warthog which arrives in a couple days! Can't wait to tell the missus...! ) but that got me thinking about flight sims and I want to get into DCS World.

I've been wondering what first module to go for. I've been looking through other threads with the same / similar questions to get some ideas and I'm definitely feeling more passionate and interested in either the Harrier or FA18 which I understand has different mission profiles. I am edging towards the Harrier.

I'm expecting a steep learning curve either way and I understand it's a very subjective question but I've seen posts (granted, a couple years old but I've not seen anything more recent) which state that the Harrier has plenty of bugs and for one reason or another, isn't a complete module and other things along those lines. Is that the case today? Aside from personal preference, are there any technical reasons why one would pick the FA18 over the Harrier or vice versa?

Thanks in advance, hope you're all having a great Christmas.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by IdleMegaPixel

[Caldero]

Hi

Both are in good state, the Harrier is very limited, you can only do some types of A-G missions while an F18 can do almost everything A-A, A-G, SEAD...

The steep learning curve with the Harrier is its SVTOL characteristics. Avionics & weapons are more friendly

Regards

[Eugel]

As so often, it depends

There is very little the Harrier can do that the F/A-18 can´t do better.
If you want to do ground attack, I think both are good choices, but the F/A-18 has better options against SAMs. The Harriers Sidearms work fine against SAMs but can be very risky as you have to get a lot closer than with the F-18s HARMs.

If you also want to do air to air combat, then you should pick the F-18. Other than a bunch of Sidewinders, the Harrier has nothing against air targets and can´t do any BVR. Also the Harrier has a speed disadvantage against almost all other aircraft.
The F/A-18 has the added bonus of carrier operations with the Supercarrier module, if that´s your thing (the Harrier can of course also operate from a carrier, but you don´t really get the interactions with the crew of the Supercarrier)

Now this might sound like the Harrier is a bad aircraft, which was not my intention. In fact, I don´t like the F/A-18 because it just can do everything and I find that a bit boring.
So let me think about a few good things about the Harrier
If you plan to play in VR, landing a Harrier on an aircraft carrier in VR is one of the best things I´ve seen in DCS. It´s very difficult but a lot of fun. 
Some people say the Harriers ingame sound sucks, but I love it. And I also like the Harriers cockpit. Looks good and makes a lot of sense to me.

In the end, it´s christmas sale, why don´t you get both ?

Oh, and welcome to DCS !

Edited December 25, 2022 by Eugel

[Dragon1-1]

The problem with the Harrier is that right now, a lot of things are wrong, they're getting fixed, but the result is that the avionics are somewhat in flux. YouTube is awash with old tutorials, and the official docs aren't updated yet. On top of that, many systems in the real Harrier work on rather British obtuse logic. Particularly the TGP mechanization was hacked together, and it shows. The Hornet, while more complex, is also fairly logical once you get used to the way its HOTAS works, and its TGP mechanization is rather straightforward.

[Exorcet]

The Harrier has bit less range, but is typically used closer to the front lines, which makes up for its short legs. It also has a built in FLIR and the ability to project FLIR info on the HUD, which aids in the night attack capability it was designed for. The Harrier is also the only aircraft in DCS with Sidearm missiles which are nice against shorter ranged SAM's because they're not as heavy and draggy as larger HARM's. Another interesting weapon is the APKWS guided rocket which allows for a very large kill count against vehicles and soft targets. Overall I'd classify it as a better CAS platform and probably a better module if you like shorter rather than longer flights. As a VTOL aircraft it can also operate from unique locations and is carrier capable.

The Hornet is infinitely better at air to air, can carry larger SEAD weapons, has more standoff capability, and is better for longer flights. It's a newer module than the Harrier and is still being fine tuned both in flight model and avionics, though at this point it is pretty close to where it should be and shouldn't go through huge changes. My biggest gripe with it right now is that it has overly harsh radar lookdown penalties that make it unreasonably difficult to fight BVR without being coaltitude from your target. However ED has said they will look into this in the short term.

[Hammer1-1]

The Harrier is fun; the Hornet is fun. Both are complicated - one is easy to fly and hard to learn while the other is exactly the opposite "kinda"...I know the Hornet inside out, but since Razbam is always updating and upgrading the Harrier, its really difficult to learn the technical aspects of it...but theres not nearly as much to learn in that aircraft as the Hornet.  If you're at a loss as to which one to get, wait for the F-15E to drop.

[Beirut]

Both are great aircraft. Grab the free trials and spend some time with each. Watch some tutorial videos and see which one looks better for you.

 

Both are excellent bomb trucks with some good high-tech toys, but the Hornet has more of the fancy high-tech weapons. And if you want to do A2A, then it has to be the Hornet. The Harrier has more character and some good tech toys, but less weapons variety, sophistication, and very limited A2G. It's hard to go wrong with either plane. Both are a lot of fun and have lots to offer. 

 

But if you want the ultimate Space Shuttle of Death, wait for the F-15E.

[Exorcet]

9 minutes ago, Beirut said:

And if you want to do A2A, then it has to be the Hornet.

It doesn't have to be the Hornet. If we're not limiting AA to BVR, then the Harrier is pretty capable against the right adversaries for an attack plane.

[Iron Sights]

Don’t leave out a look at the A-10Cll and the F-16, both are great planes and the A-10 is pretty much complete, if you like ground pounding you can’t go wrong, F-16 is excellent at A2A and SEAD missions. I personally started out with the F-18, but I do fly the Harrier some, but with changes it’s hard to stay proficient. To be honest you can’t go wrong with either, but there is more material on the 18, for someone who is learning. Good news is they are just a little bit similar, so once you get use to one, you know what to expect from the others.

[Beirut]

9 hours ago, Exorcet said:

It doesn't have to be the Hornet. If we're not limiting AA to BVR, then the Harrier is pretty capable against the right adversaries for an attack plane.

 

An Argument! 

 

I meant A2A... radars and lock ups and big booms way off in the distance and all that. 

 

 

 

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Just buy both.  They’re on 1/2 price sale and are both excellent.  I’ve been flying both since their launch and still love flying both.

[Beirut]

34 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Just buy both.  They’re on 1/2 price sale and are both excellent.  I’ve been flying both since their launch and still love flying both.

 

If the cash is flowing, yes. Half price is a great price. But not everyone has it flowing as much as the next guy. Maybe the Harrier is the right choice, since it occupies its own special space, and wait for the F-15E since it handles a lot of the same high speed, high tech goodness that the Hornet does. 

 

And still enough time left on the sale to give both a good go on the free trials. That's a big plus.

[IdleMegaPixel]

Thank you to everyone for your input! Very insightful and I've spent the last two weeks abusing the trial system. Had a good go with everything and I've just now made the decision but I've enjoyed flying the Harrier above the rest, fun to fly (and crash!) but also a cultural passion as I'm British.. so I naturally feel a bit more loving to the Harrier now I've experienced it in-game. Time to really get stuck into it! 

I was against buying multiple, despite the sale, because I'd end up just splitting my time between them, learning none and never playing again in frustration! 

[MadKreator]

4 minutes ago, IdleMegaPixel said:

Thank you to everyone for your input! Very insightful and I've spent the last two weeks abusing the trial system. Had a good go with everything and I've just now made the decision but I've enjoyed flying the Harrier above the rest, fun to fly (and crash!) but also a cultural passion as I'm British.. so I naturally feel a bit more loving to the Harrier now I've experienced it in-game. Time to really get stuck into it! 

I was against buying multiple, despite the sale, because I'd end up just splitting my time between them, learning none and never playing again in frustration! 

I hesitated on the harrier for a long time  thinking, I have the f-18, f-16 and a-10c… it seems so lacking in comparison. Finally bought it, learned it and now its one of my favorites and most flown! Between it and the a-10 the f-16 gets a whirl here and there for SEAD but I haven’t touched the hornet for almost two years now, other than a free flight or two.  Love the av8b!