solved Stutters and jitters in VR with RTX 4080 and 5800X3D

[Dentedend10]

Hi,

I've been trying many different things to get some results to no avail. I've upgraded my system. I've gone through multiple optimization pages that I found here on the forum.

Yet, anytime I move my head around in the cockpit I get stuttering and it is very much immersion-braking.

I seem to get them in the more complicated jets more. P51D looks smooth on the inside. F14 is probably the worst. (Other than those I fly the F18 and F16).

Monitoring tells me that GPU is doing fine (around 11 ms frametime), and most of the time so is the CPU (around same frametime, however, less consistent than my GPU). Sometimes I see red and higher frametimes in the CPU section in FPSVR. However, average FPS still says it's around 45 and usually there is few to no dropped frames. Yet, when I look around in the cockpit it always stutters.

Recently I went through this optimization: https://vr4dcs.com/2020/12/24/how-to-nail-reverb-setup/

I also reinstalled DirectX11 and forcing it through SteamVR.

The only optimization I cannot do on my system is running OpenXR ( I have motion sim and I need to be running SteamVR for motion compensation through SimRacingStudio).

Any ideas what else I can try? I was really hoping to get a smooth experience with my recent updates

Btw, I am running DCS stable version and Windows 10.

Thank you for any suggestions in advance.

Merry Chrismtas!

[Flappie]

Hi. Have you already tried this?

 

[freehand]

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

Hi. Have you already tried this?

 

He is on windows 10 edit: oo I made a mistake.

Edited December 26, 2022 by freehand

[Dentedend10]

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

Hi. Have you already tried this?

 

I’ve done point 2 and 3, I’ll give the first one a try next time. Didn’t really see a difference. 
went back to Vr Default settings to do some further testing. It almost seems like the CPU is still the bottleneck. Generally 12-14 ms frametime, around carrier goes to 30 ms though. 
tried to play around with motion smoothening on or off, no difference either. 
F18 and F16 look better now, F14 is still the worst. 
frames seem stable at 45 with motion smoothening on. Just wishing those stutters stopped. 
could it really be the CPU bottleneck?

Edited December 26, 2022 by Dentedend10

[TKNARMZ]

1 hour ago, Dentedend10 said:

Hi,

I've been trying many different things to get some results to no avail. I've upgraded my system. I've gone through multiple optimization pages that I found here on the forum.

Yet, anytime I move my head around in the cockpit I get stuttering and it is very much immersion-braking.

I seem to get them in the more complicated jets more. P51D looks smooth on the inside. F14 is probably the worst. (Other than those I fly the F18 and F16).

Monitoring tells me that GPU is doing fine (around 11 ms frametime), and most of the time so is the CPU (around same frametime, however, less consistent than my GPU). Sometimes I see red and higher frametimes in the CPU section in FPSVR. However, average FPS still says it's around 45 and usually there is few to no dropped frames. Yet, when I look around in the cockpit it always stutters.

Recently I went through this optimization: https://vr4dcs.com/2020/12/24/how-to-nail-reverb-setup/

I also reinstalled DirectX11 and forcing it through SteamVR.

The only optimization I cannot do on my system is running OpenXR ( I have motion sim and I need to be running SteamVR for motion compensation through SimRacingStudio).

Any ideas what else I can try? I was really hoping to get a smooth experience with my recent updates

Btw, I am running DCS stable version and Windows 10.

Thank you for any suggestions in advance.

Merry Chrismtas!

Im having the same issue.  My 2d games play perfectly.  VR is another story.  All I did was do a clean install on my windows 10 PC and built a new Windows 11 PC.  My older PC that ran everything perfectly now stutters just like you said after the clean windows 10 install.  My Windows 11 does the exact same thing. I believe its a Vr software issue and not the game itself.  Either in Windows itself or Steam.  I have been working with steam for about 2 months now and people on this forum.  No one knows what's going on.  I hope you get this fixed and if you do, please post it here.

[Dentedend10]

Thank you for your response. Now I’ve tried all points in that guide and in the F14 it’s still the same. Frametime of CPU is higher at times (12-25 Ms) with more red, but few dropped frames to none. Stutter is still present

[speed-of-heat]

@TKNARMZIf you did a clean install of Windows 11, youneed to make sure  HAGS is off, I would also suggest you turn off Memory Integrity and the VMP, which would all have been left off if you did an upgrade, but because you did a clean install would have been turn on (Memory Integrity anyway).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-to-optimize-gaming-performance-in-windows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613

 

You will need to reboot after the changes to be effective.

Edited December 26, 2022 by speed-of-heat

[Flappie]

To AMD CPU owners: these BIOS tweaks worked for these users (PBO, C-States and PCIE settings).

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Flappie

[TKNARMZ]

10 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

@TKNARMZIf you did a clean install of Windows 11, youneed to make sure  HAGS is off, I would also suggest you turn off Memory Integrity and the VMP, which would all have been left off if you did an upgrade, but because you did a clean install would have been turn on (Memory Integrity anyway).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-to-optimize-gaming-performance-in-windows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613

 

You will need to reboot after the changes to be effective.

 

HAGS is off. I don't know about the other two.  ill check it out.

[TKNARMZ]

Just tried all those settings.  Nothing helped.  I can almost get Vr to work at 80hz.  but then you can tell there a ton of missing frames, stutters quit a bit.  At 144hz the stutters are gone but then it judders.. as If the 3d world is lagging behind. IL2 I can get to work at 120hz, every once in a while you can tell it still has an issue but not nearly as often as DCS.  Probably due to DCS needing more resources.  Not one of them drops my frame rate.  ILS runs it at 120 FPS no issues and if I turn it to 140hz, its a solid 140FPS but.. dropped frames are causing stutters.  DCS runs it at a solid 72 per eye which is 144hz but the world lags.  

 

Switch Bios to PCIe gen3, then tried Gen 4.  Nothing changed.  PBO mode to disabled then enabled.  I don't know what CPU C-State is.

My memory integrity was already off and I don't know what VMP is.  Every time I go to look that up it comes up as VPN...  (never mind just found it).  I will try it later.  

[speed-of-heat]

Look at the link,mit explains what VMP is... Just to set your expectations however...

I have a 4090, and I can't run at full resolution and 90hz... If you can stomach it switch the headset to 60hz mode... You may need to train yourself to do it.  Or drop the headset resolution via NIS or FSR to 77%

[Marco Schaap]

I've recently edited my graphics.lua (in DCS program folder) DCS World Open Beta\bin\Config\graphics.lua according to this guys findings:

It basically cuts the number of triangles your system has to render and fill (both cpu and gpu). I've edited the file in Notepad++, CTRL+H (Search and replace).

Search for: "lodMult = 1.0"

Replace with: "lodMult = 0.5"

Don't copy the "quotes". It gives me a much better experience in VR. Hope it helps!

 

[TKNARMZ]

3 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

Look at the link,mit explains what VMP is... Just to set your expectations however...

I have a 4090, and I can't run at full resolution and 90hz... If you can stomach it switch the headset to 60hz mode... You may need to train yourself to do it.  Or drop the headset resolution via NIS or FSR to 77%

I understand what you're saying, but my 6900xt ran it perfectly smooth at the exact same settings.  my 4090 should do better, not worse.  I see the 4090 improvements due to the FPS numbers.. its something else causing issues.  

[Dentedend10]

So I’ve tried to access my BIOS options to change some of settings aforementioned. Unfortunately, Dell motherboards limit their BIOS settings quite a bit, so I wasn’t able to change CPU c state, or PBO. 
Ive just run Cinebench and the CPU is running as expected. 
in game it seems to be the case that whenever CPU frametimes struggle is when I’m getting the stuttering. Unfortunately, in the F14 this is constant, which is a shame.

Seems like I’ll need to wait until CPU performance gets optimized. Weird that others have a smooth experience in the F14 with same CPU though. Other planes as I said are smoother

[Flappie]

Please ensure your Windows power plan is set to the max ("High performance" in W10, "Best performance" in W11).

If stuttering continues, check this:

 

[Dentedend10]

2 hours ago, Flappie said:

Please ensure your Windows power plan is set to the max ("High performance" in W10, "Best performance" in W11).

If stuttering continues, check this:

 

I’ll start with installing windows 11 as the power options on my windows 10 seem to be corrupted and would need a reinstall anyways. Thanks for the suggestions, I’ll report back once everything is up and running

I'm on the Stable version of DCS (2.7.18.xxx)

I've tried the solution on that page. When I set DCS.exe compatibility to Run as admin, SteamVR crashes everytime I run DCS. The video card setting under NVIDIA control panel was already in effect.

Some more testing results: in the P51D, FPSVR shows very few red lines for CPU (11-12 ms). F16 shows more red (15ms-ish), but feels smooth. F14 shows lots of red lines in the graph for CPU, around 16 ms, constant stuttering when I move my head.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Dentedend10

[Dentedend10]

So running windows 11 now, no alienware software interfering, power option is set to best performance.

Issue still persists. 

Looking at FPSVR, even 20 ms frametime for CPU should not be causing issues since I'm using Motion smoothing and it runs at 45 FPS. What I do notice is that even though the CPU frametime is showing 15-20 ms, there are lots of red lines among the orange lines in the graph for the CPU. I don't know how to interpret this and if that could be the cause of my issue

[Splashtrick68]

I have similar, 5800x and 4080 and play in VR on a HP G2, I'll have to take a screenshot of settings in next day or two. For me, between the OpenXR, graphic settings in DCS and keeping frames at 60.. it stays at 60 for most part, dropping close to urban terrain in Persian Gulf but not by much and recovers pretty quick.. I have textures and water at high, MSAA at x2 and am actually pretty happy with overall performance. I have both 2.7 stable and open on my computer, the colors and other visual aspects of open beta are far superior than stable, but so far at the expense of some minor jitters and overall performance loss, but...... I haven't opened stable in last week or two and mostly play in VR.

For me, I leaned most of how to tweak and tune on this thread from the initial post and others tweaks and settings, overall I'm pretty happy. 

 

[Dentedend10]

1 hour ago, Splashtrick68 said:

I have similar, 5800x and 4080 and play in VR on a HP G2, I'll have to take a screenshot of settings in next day or two. For me, between the OpenXR, graphic settings in DCS and keeping frames at 60.. it stays at 60 for most part, dropping close to urban terrain in Persian Gulf but not by much and recovers pretty quick.. I have textures and water at high, MSAA at x2 and am actually pretty happy with overall performance. I have both 2.7 stable and open on my computer, the colors and other visual aspects of open beta are far superior than stable, but so far at the expense of some minor jitters and overall performance loss, but...... I haven't opened stable in last week or two and mostly play in VR.

For me, I leaned most of how to tweak and tune on this thread from the initial post and others tweaks and settings, overall I'm pretty happy. 

 

Thank you for the tips! Unfortunately I cannot use OpenXR as I need to have SteamVR as my runtime for the purposes of my motion sim. Until OpenXR has a usable motion compensation tool (which is different from reprojection or smoothing), I’ll have to find a way to get results using SteamVr

i also have MSAA 2x and anisotropic filtering at 16x and textured medium to high, I don’t think my bottleneck is the GPU as frametimes are stable. I think something is going on with the CPU that causes the stutters specifically in aircraft with lots of systems (F14). But I’m also no expert so it’s just my biased opinion at this stage

Edited December 27, 2022 by Dentedend10

[TKNARMZ]

36 minutes ago, Dentedend10 said:

Thank you for the tips! Unfortunately I cannot use OpenXR as I need to have SteamVR as my runtime for the purposes of my motion sim. Until OpenXR has a usable motion compensation tool (which is different from reprojection or smoothing), I’ll have to find a way to get results using SteamVr

i also have MSAA 2x and anisotropic filtering at 16x and textured medium to high, I don’t think my bottleneck is the GPU as frametimes are stable. I think something is going on with the CPU that causes the stutters specifically in aircraft with lots of systems (F14). But I’m also no expert so it’s just my biased opinion at this stage

 

I honestly don't think its your CPU.  I think its a software setting or something running that shouldn't be.  I have the same issue on TWO PC's.  One brand new using the 4090 and my older one, using a 6900xt.  The 6900xt has an AMD 5900 CPU which ran DCS perfectly with no stutters, or judders or any issues!  not one.  Then I did a clean install and bam.. Its running like crap.  The NEW PC is doing the same thing.  Its not hardware!  Its software.  I have done 3 clean installs on both my PC's with the same issue.  Perfect FPS on both, but when you roll the aircraft the 3D world stutters, or lags, what ever you want to call it.

[Flappie]

2 hours ago, Dentedend10 said:

I think something is going on with the CPU that causes the stutters specifically in aircraft with lots of systems (F14). But I’m also no expert so it’s just my biased opinion at this stage

If you're running one of these, close them before playing:

• Malwarebytes Anti-Malware
• Wallpaper Engine
• FPSVR

Add DCS main path as an exception to your antivirus (even if that's Microsoft default antivirus).

Disable NVIDIA Share (or simply uninstall GeForce Experience if you have it installed).

Disable Windows Game Bar DVR feature.

Disable Windows HPET.

[Dentedend10]

Thank you for everyone's input, what a great community!

It turns out the Winwing throttle and software were causing the issue. I've been suggested to turn off the 'export lua' in the software Simappro. So I did. The results are phenomenal.

Just had my first landing in the F14 where flying the overhead break the ship wasn't stuttering. The hook switch didn't stutter as I employed it. Feels like a complete new game. Even on the carrier I don't get the stuttering. I might need to replay Zone 5 campaign now xD

That one click in the software made all the difference. Now CPU times are around 8-10 ms (from 15-20 ms). It's in the green for the first time. FPS is stable at 45.

It should probably come as part of the throttle package information as other people might be struggling with the same issue. Might email Winwing about it.

Thanks again, happy new year!

[MadKreator]

3 hours ago, Dentedend10 said:

Thank you for everyone's input, what a great community!

It turns out the Winwing throttle and software were causing the issue. I've been suggested to turn off the 'export lua' in the software Simappro. So I did. The results are phenomenal.

Just had my first landing in the F14 where flying the overhead break the ship wasn't stuttering. The hook switch didn't stutter as I employed it. Feels like a complete new game. Even on the carrier I don't get the stuttering. I might need to replay Zone 5 campaign now xD

That one click in the software made all the difference. Now CPU times are around 8-10 ms (from 15-20 ms). It's in the green for the first time. FPS is stable at 45.

It should probably come as part of the throttle package information as other people might be struggling with the same issue. Might email Winwing about it.

Thanks again, happy new year!

The simapp pro causes the same kind of issue, at least beats up fps, on standard monitors too. Once I canned it, and deleted the lines from the export.lua, things were great again. 

[Dentedend10]

7 hours ago, MadKreator said:

The simapp pro causes the same kind of issue, at least beats up fps, on standard monitors too. Once I canned it, and deleted the lines from the export.lua, things were great again. 

Could you point me in the direction what it means to delete the lines from the export lua? I was able to figure out the app portion of it, don’t know much about export lua

[TKNARMZ]

On 12/27/2022 at 7:34 PM, Dentedend10 said:

Thank you for everyone's input, what a great community!

It turns out the Winwing throttle and software were causing the issue. I've been suggested to turn off the 'export lua' in the software Simappro. So I did. The results are phenomenal.

Just had my first landing in the F14 where flying the overhead break the ship wasn't stuttering. The hook switch didn't stutter as I employed it. Feels like a complete new game. Even on the carrier I don't get the stuttering. I might need to replay Zone 5 campaign now xD

That one click in the software made all the difference. Now CPU times are around 8-10 ms (from 15-20 ms). It's in the green for the first time. FPS is stable at 45.

It should probably come as part of the throttle package information as other people might be struggling with the same issue. Might email Winwing about it.

Thanks again, happy new year!

Im glad you figured it out.  Im not at home to give this a try but I don't think this is my issue since I was getting the same problem without hooking any controls up.  I am also wondering if you could give a complete detailed instruction on exactly what you did.  I don't even think I installed SimAppro.  The throttle works without it.  I have my Thrustmaster throttle I could try.

Thank you.