fixed 'HACQ lagging behind' fix in 2.8.1.34437 OB

[oldcrusty]

Is this what the devs were referring to?  To me this looks more like HACQ getting stuck then 'lagging' and it's still there:

 

[Gogojuice]

Im getting this too... it makes dogfighting horrible in multiplayer servers  Radar contacts are jumping all over the place on the SA page within 15.  

[oldcrusty]

Even if ACM lock was very easy to break, the locked tgt symbology should disappear from the HUD and HMD immediately, regardless of what the radar is doing to maintain the lock. Once re-acquired, it should show again. The way it works currently... I's rather turn the radar off and use the funnel ;/

[robgraham]

Can you guys experiancing this try and reproduce with as clean a mission as you can and supply track files and your logs? It will help us hunt down issues especially if you can give us both server and player logs and tracks if possible.

 

Also make certain if it is happening to you have no non offical aircraft mods installed incase one of them is causing the issue. I know that it sounds weird but some times even when not in use they can cause issues.

Edited December 27, 2022 by robgraham

[oldcrusty]

32 minutes ago, robgraham said:

Can you guys experiancing this try and reproduce with as clean a mission as you can and supply track files and your logs? It will help us hunt down issues especially if you can give us both server and player logs and tracks if possible.

 

Also make certain if it is happening to you have no non offical aircraft mods installed incase one of them is causing the issue. I know that it sounds weird but some times even when not in use they can cause issues.

 

Trust me, I'd rather provide a track but 99.9% of track recording of this type of maneuvers will get out of whack after 1 or 2 turns.  The mission was as simple as I could make it: SP, just me and 1 bandit jet 30 nm apart, head on. Guns only load, 80% gas.  No wind, no clouds.  Well, I could've picked a better area on the map, like featureless desert or water.  I'll give it another shot.

As far as MP goes, perhaps someone else could try, on some 'abandoned' server with couple of jets only? 

[oldcrusty]

Finally... I managed to record a track that played correctly by staging the fight over a flat part of the desert area, away from everything.  Well, there's no guarantee the track will play correctly on any other rig. Just in case it doesn't, I'm also posting an unlisted vid recorded from this track.

The issue usually shows up when the target closure rate goes from positive to negative or vice versa and the target's crossing angle is high.  In this track it starts happening after the second turn in this 2circle fight. 

ACM break lock problem 1.trk

https://youtu.be/cubQiG50sw0

 

[nikoel]

https://discord.com/channels/542985647502393346/1047472870344904706
 

Pasting to merge and more data 

[OLD CROW]

All Gun piper simbology  is broken in ACM Mode once opponent has been acquired also the messages in HUD like IN LAR and SHOOT.

ACM_GUN_Piper_NoGo.trkACM_GUN_Piper_NoGo2.trk

Edited December 30, 2022 by OLD CROW

[Gripen 4-1]

My gun Pipper is also going crazy in the HUD since 2.8.1

[oldcrusty]

On 12/30/2022 at 8:40 AM, Gripen 4-1 said:

My gun Pipper is also going crazy in the HUD since 2.8.1

Yea, it looks like the pipper is following the 'foresight' cues not the ballistics based on your own jet attitude.  The range and other factors seem to be calculated correctly so when close enough for a shot, the pipper creeps into correct position, when in the same plane of motion.  You can see this when you have the target locked and he starts jinking while you maintain steady path. The pipper is reacting to his maneuvering and is following the 'foresight' indications.

Another thing... when you lock the bandit by simply switching to guns, without any previous A/A mode selected (or weapon), you don't get the foresight cues but... the pipper is following these cues anyway ;/. This can be pretty confusing.    I think we need to post another detailed report.  

[nikoel]

Did we get a fix, for the fix that didn't fix this bug in this latest fix (26/1/2023)?

[oldcrusty]

8 hours ago, nikoel said:

Did we get a fix, for the fix that didn't fix this bug in this latest fix (26/1/2023)?

Nope

[BIGNEWY]

the thread is marked still investigating, we are not convinced it needs adjusting any more than we have already. 

[Vlad_Mig]

It’s unusable right now. There’s a chance of hitting someone if you’re very close to the opponent. 

[OLD CROW]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

adjusting any more than we have already

Not a matter of "adjusting" is a matter of fixing 

[nikoel]

Newy I have to agree with the others on this. It makes high AOA, 1 circle fights frustrating at best, game breaking at worst

It makes the F/A-18 an offbrand Viper, as it takes away from it's primary advantage

I will upload an other video/track that showcases this. Please note where the bandit is, and where the target placement is. I tried making this obvious by pointing my head when it happens.

Additional Screenshots of this are attached. Track file is also attached.

 

HACQ Take Two.trk

Edited February 1, 2023 by nikoel

[oldcrusty]

Well, I've just wrapped up a quick test and I have to say that the gun reticle is usable now. When I was outside of the gun range or the locked bandit flew past the radar's gimbals, I might have a question or 2 for SME's or other folks 'in the know' related to reticle position, etc. With the target in sight and approaching the gun's range, the reticle behavior did not cause any issues. It looked good from that point till the kill. I didn't notice any excessive jumping around. It seemed like it followed the same path the funnel would draw, + range.  

This test was done in ST DCS.exe and I have no Idea how the gun director behaves in MT currently.

Now, I did notice something strange though related to pressing cage/uncage button with the target locked in HACQ mode and possibly other ACM modes. (excluding WACQ). I have to make a separate thread in Hornet's general forum. Perhaps someone might have an explanation for me.

[Smashy]

On 4/27/2023 at 4:38 PM, oldcrusty said:

Well, I've just wrapped up a quick test and I have to say that the gun reticle is usable now. When I was outside of the gun range or the locked bandit flew past the radar's gimbals, I might have a question or 2 for SME's or other folks 'in the know' related to reticle position, etc. With the target in sight and approaching the gun's range, the reticle behavior did not cause any issues. It looked good from that point till the kill. I didn't notice any excessive jumping around. It seemed like it followed the same path the funnel would draw, + range.  

This test was done in ST DCS.exe and I have no Idea how the gun director behaves in MT currently.

Now, I did notice something strange though related to pressing cage/uncage button with the target locked in HACQ mode and possibly other ACM modes. (excluding WACQ). I have to make a separate thread in Hornet's general forum. Perhaps someone might have an explanation for me.

Is this still fixed for you?  For me, the pipper still appears to follow the behavior of the foresight cue.  With a lock on a maneuvering and jinking target, the pipper still jumps around like crazy.

Here's a short track where I'm saddled up behind a F1.  Notice how the pipper starts moving erratically as soon as the F1 starts maneuvering.  Even the BATR (bullet impact) cue is affected even though I'm still straight and level.  Additionally, if the radar is in SIL mode switching to guns will take the radar out of SIL mode.  I'm not sure if that's working as intended or not.

@BIGNEWY can you please take a look at the track?  Hopefully this clearly illustrates the problem I'm seeing.  If more examples are needed, lmk and I can try to provide more tracks.  Thanks.

Hornet pipper.trk

[BIGNEWY]

3 hours ago, Smashy said:

@BIGNEWY can you please take a look at the track?  Hopefully this clearly illustrates the problem I'm seeing.  If more examples are needed, lmk and I can try to provide more tracks.  Thanks.

yes will take a look today, thanks

[BIGNEWY]

We have taken a look today and it is working as expected when we test. We are not seeing the piper jump around like crazy. 

might be worth removing any unofficial mods or edits if any and running a slow repair or verify if steam. 

 

[Smashy]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

We have taken a look today and it is working as expected when we test. We are not seeing the piper jump around like crazy. 

might be worth removing any unofficial mods or edits if any and running a slow repair or verify if steam. 

 

I appreciate the look.  Sorry I forgot to include version and mod info in my previous post.

For anyone curious:

OpenBeta 2.8.6.41363, testing in single-threaded

Following files have been modified:

./Mods/aircraft/F-16C/Cockpit/Scripts/EWS/CMDS/device/CMDS_ALE47.lua
./Mods/aircraft/F-16C/Input/F-16C/joystick/default.lua
./Mods/aircraft/F-16C/Input/F-16C/keyboard/default.lua
./Mods/aircraft/FA-18C/Cockpit/Scripts/TEWS/device/CMDS_ALE47.lua
./Mods/aircraft/FA-18C/Input/FA-18C/joystick/default.lua
./Mods/aircraft/FA-18C/Input/FA-18C/keyboard/default.lua
./Mods/aircraft/Ka-50/Cockpit/Scripts/Devices_specs/UV_26.lua
./Mods/aircraft/Mi-8MTV2/Cockpit/Scripts/CargoIndicator/CargoIndicator_page.lua
./Mods/aircraft/Mi-8MTV2/Cockpit/Scripts/ControlsIndicator/ControlsIndicator_page.lua
./Mods/aircraft/P-51D/Input/P-51D/joystick/default.lua
./Mods/aircraft/P-51D/Input/P-51D/keyboard/default.lua
./Mods/aircraft/Uh-1H/Cockpit/Scripts/AI/ControlPanel/g_panel_page.lua
./Mods/aircraft/Uh-1H/Cockpit/Scripts/CargoIndicator/CargoIndicator_page.lua
./Mods/aircraft/Uh-1H/Input/UH-1H/joystick/default.lua
./Mods/aircraft/Uh-1H/Input/UH-1H/keyboard/default.lua
./Scripts/Aircrafts/_Common/Cockpit/ViewportHandling.lua
./Scripts/Speech/common_events.lua
 

third-party mods:

• SRS
• DCS Scratchpad
• TacView
• DCS-ExportScript
• Helios

I'll try the repair and systematically remove mods for testing.  I'll report back when that's all done.  Thanks again!

[Smashy]

Did a cleanup and slow repair but did not remove mods listed above.  The pipper was still behaving erratically.

Instead of trying to troubleshoot my current install piece-by-piece, I decided to go with a fresh download of the stable release and test on that.  Got a freshly-downloaded stable install done, installed the Hornet and Syria, and setup a simple test against a Flanker.  The pipper starts jumping around once the Flanker starts maneuvering.  It's especially noticeable when the Flanker is rolling side-to-side.  No mods, no changes to default except importing my HOTAS binds from my beta install.  Here's the track from this test.  The random guns shots were just me trying to see what the BATR cue was doing.

Hornet pipper test.trk

[nikoel]

Just wanted to say thanks for fixing this issue and putting it into the latest changelog (and letting us use the F16 backdoor to get it done)