AMD 7 series X3D announced

[AngleOff66]

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7000x3d-series-coming-february-16-core-ryzen-9-7950x3d-features-144mb-cache

[tomcat_driver]

Now thats something to think about!

[Thinder]

It could be a bunch of viable upgrades if AMD didn't do us the 7900 launch performances thing again...

Anyway in a few hours I'll test my EVGA GEFORCE GTX 1080Ti vs the Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XTX Nitro+ Vapor-X 24GB I am expecting back-to-back, it should be interesting, I've been preparing myPC for the upgrade, 15mm fan to gain a precious cm for the card, repositioning of the low pressure Noctua fan, new CPU cooler.

While I was finishing optimizing my system (windows in particular), I tried to fly the Mirage F1 in VR, got frame rates as low as 25fps but considering that everything was set to max, 2 X MSAA and anisotropic Filtering a 16x, I'm happy with that, still have to figure out how to harmonize 2D and 3D ratios...

Meanwhile my CPU was only toping 15/18% usage, so I guess there are more than a few forum legend going on about how DCS really works and I'm probably not gonna feel the need to upgrade my 5800X 3D any time soon.

[Hoirtel]

Been waiting for these. Three makes the choices more difficult. Interestingly I have also watched the hardware unboxed reviews and by thier workings they think that the 7900 and 7950 will only have vcache on one of the CCDs. This would tie in with them being dual purpose. Might mean that for DCS the 7800 will be the best. Shame it doesn't boost as high like the others. I will wait for reviews but I will probably be getting one of these. 

[Tom Kazansky]

37 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

..the 7900 and 7950 will only have vcache on one of the CCDs. This would tie in with them being dual purpose. Might mean that for DCS the 7800 will be the best. Shame it doesn't boost as high like the others...

right, but it seems that only the CCD without the X3D cache has the higher boost clock. So for the new multithreading (or dualthreading) DCS core, the 7800X3D could be CPU of choice because(!) of the single CCD architecture. I'm looking forward to VR comparisons to th 5800X3D in DCS.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Tom Kazansky

[Hoirtel]

37 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

right, but it seems that only the CCD without the X3D cache has the higher boost clock. So for the new multithreading (or dualthreading) DCS core, the 7800X3D could be CPU of choice because(!) of the single CCD architecture. I'm looking forward to VR comparisons to th 5800X3D in DCS.

 

Ah I missed that bit! That's really useful information and would make perfect sense given the compromises in thermal performance that the vcache apparently has. As you say this makes the choice much easier and for building a sim only system its nice to not need the most expensive part for once! 

Where did you hear that about the boost clocks? 

[Tom Kazansky]

49 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Where did you hear that about the boost clocks? 

I read it on the German Hardwareluxx.de last night right after AMD's CES announcements.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/news/hardware/prozessoren/60159-ryzen-7000-mit-mehr-cache-amd-stellt-gleich-drei-x3d-modelle-vor.html

"Da nur einer der CCDs mit dem SRAM-Chip bedeckt wird, kann AMD auf dem zweiten CCD die hohen Boost-Taktraten halten. Jedes CCD hat also seine Stärken – eines kommt mit zusätzlichen 64 MB an L3-Cache daher, das andere bietet die hohen Boost-Taktraten."

means

"Because only one of the CCDs is covered with the SRAM chip, AMD can maintain high boost clock rates on the second CCD. So each CCD has its strengths - one comes with an extra 64MB of L3 cache, the other offers the high boost clock speeds."

 

[Hoirtel]

7 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

I read it on the German Hardwareluxx.de last night right after AMD's CES announcements.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/news/hardware/prozessoren/60159-ryzen-7000-mit-mehr-cache-amd-stellt-gleich-drei-x3d-modelle-vor.html

"Da nur einer der CCDs mit dem SRAM-Chip bedeckt wird, kann AMD auf dem zweiten CCD die hohen Boost-Taktraten halten. Jedes CCD hat also seine Stärken – eines kommt mit zusätzlichen 64 MB an L3-Cache daher, das andere bietet die hohen Boost-Taktraten."

means

"Because only one of the CCDs is covered with the SRAM chip, AMD can maintain high boost clock rates on the second CCD. So each CCD has its strengths - one comes with an extra 64MB of L3 cache, the other offers the high boost clock speeds."

 

Great, that would be why I missed it! Thanks for passing that on - interesting to know.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Well, too bad I just got a new rig based on 5800x3D...... Still need DDR5, I presume?

[Hoirtel]

Just now, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Well, too bad I just got a new rig based on 5800x3D...... Still need DDR5, I presume?

Yes it will be DDR5 and the newer more expensive motherboards. I remember couple of months ago there was a bit of a rush on the cheap 5800x3d systems. We knew then that this was going to be announced at CES, but price wise it will probably work out much higher cost anyway. How much extra that will get remains to be tested....

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Well, too bad I just got a new rig based on 5800x3D...... Still need DDR5, I presume?

Any AM5 system will need DDR5. 

So you're looking at 400-450 for the 7800X3D (that's roughly where 5800X3D started), $250 for something like a gigabyte B650 Aorus AX Pro, and $180(32Gb)-300(64Gb) DDR5 6000 CL30 or DDR5 6400 CL32 which both you could get down to CL28. So yeah, you're looking at about $1000 for the whole deal, give or take. 

I'm probably going to land on the 7800. My only concern with higher SKUs is that, like it's been mentioned, only one CCD has vcache and it clocks lower than non vcache. You are at the mercy of the hardware scheduler to make sure your game lands on the vcache CCD. In theory, it should already be worked out and if not, there's process lasso... But it's something that would warrant some early benchmarks. 

[Hoirtel]

36 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

Any AM5 system will need DDR5. 

So you're looking at 400-450 for the 7800X3D (that's roughly where 5800X3D started), $250 for something like a gigabyte B650 Aorus AX Pro, and $180(32Gb)-300(64Gb) DDR5 6000 CL30 or DDR5 6400 CL32 which both you could get down to CL28. So yeah, you're looking at about $1000 for the whole deal, give or take. 

I'm probably going to land on the 7800. My only concern with higher SKUs is that, like it's been mentioned, only one CCD has vcache and it clocks lower than non vcache. You are at the mercy of the hardware scheduler to make sure your game lands on the vcache CCD. In theory, it should already be worked out and if not, there's process lasso... But it's something that would warrant some early benchmarks. 

I argee, sounds like the 7800 will be the one to get for priority sim rig. My minor issue with DDR5 is that it seems hard too get decent 64gb kits at 6000. There are some CL40 ones cropping up in the EU stores, but I wonder if a better 32gb kit would be best for the short term.

[AngleOff66]

Oh good point about the  CCD vcache.  Hopefully someone at AMD is testing this with a demanding game, and talking to Microsoft BEFORE they go on sale.

Important to wait on reviews for sure.

[Hoirtel]

So some of the early thoughts on these X3D chips from reviewers are surprisingly negative. Seems like reading between the lines of AMD's charts could indicate that these are not as far a leap forward as the hype train might be expecting. I am really interested to see the testing, but as I am now looking around at parts, its seems that 64Gb of 6000 is only available in cas 40 or maybe 36. I do really want 64gb for DCS. Could make do with 32gb in the short term but either of these choices kinda tarnishes the X3D option a bit as I would likely want to upgrade in the future. Having looked at the prices for 64Gb DDR4 the intel 13th gen is starting to look appealing again...

I am not too bothered about the upgrade path. They way I see it is that AM5 would allow me to upgrade the CPU, and looks like I might have to upgrade the RAM anyway. Intel DDR4 means that I would need new board, RAM and CPU for future upgrade whenever I get to do it, likely 2/3/4 years away. Considering nobody really knows what is coming down the line I think the upgrade path is a non issue for me at the moment, which looks more like 13th gen is a best bang for buck. Just need those X3D reviews...

Edited January 10, 2023 by Hoirtel

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, Hoirtel said:

So some of the early thoughts on these X3D chips from reviewers are surprisingly negative. Seems like reading between the lines of AMD's charts could indicate that these are not as far a leap forward as the hype train might be expecting.
(...)
 Considering nobody really knows what is coming down the line I think the upgrade path is a non issue for me at the moment, which looks more like 13th gen is a best bang for buck. Just need those X3D reviews...

Yes, I think so too.
Either Intel 13th gen (13600K/KF especially) with 64GB DDR4 3600 C16/C18 and Z790 D4 mobo, or AM4 5800X3D with 64GB DDR4 3600 C14/C16 and B550/X570 mobo, still seems the way to go, bang for buck.

Edited January 10, 2023 by LucShep

[Hoirtel]

18 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Yes, I think so too.
Either Intel 13th (13600K/KF especially) gen (+64GB DDR4 3600 C18/C16 and D4 motherboard), or AM4 5800X3D (+64GB DDR4 3600 C14/CL16) seems the way go, bang for buck.

 

I probably would go 13700K. Maybe its diminishing returns but I had my eye on the 13900K which is probably too much, so middle ground. 

[EightyDuce]

4 hours ago, Hoirtel said:

. I am really interested to see the testing, but as I am now looking around at parts, its seems that 64Gb of 6000 is only available in cas 40 or maybe 36. I do really want 64gb for DCS. 

 

There's plenty of DDR5 6000-6400 with CL32 and CL30. Most of it is Hynix M/A die so you could probably get it down to CL28 with 1.5-1.55v which is fine for 24/7. That being said, you looking at $400 for a 64Gb kit. 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#X=0,96911&ff=ddr5&S=6000,6400&L=280,340&Z=65536002

 

As for the X3D. Just like everything else, take the hype with a grain of salt and wait for 3rd party reviews. 

As for going with 13XXX, if building a new system in would still opt for DDR5. Stay with DDR4 if upgrading. 

[Hoirtel]

27 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

There's plenty of DDR5 6000-6400 with CL32 and CL30. Most of it is Hynix M/A die so you could probably get it down to CL28 with 1.5-1.55v which is fine for 24/7. That being said, you looking at $400 for a 64Gb kit. 

Not on this side of the pond

[EightyDuce]

23 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Not on this side of the pond

Dang, that sucks.

[BitMaster]

My eyes always give water when I read the prices in the US and then open up a german retailer and compare, it's 10-20ish% I'd say in general.

10% on a 80$ SSD is a bitter-sweet pill, 20% on a 2000$ GPU is an extra-bitter pill to swallow.

[Dragon1-1]

That's because of the VAT, which is not a thing in the US. There are other taxes to worry about, and AFAIK the Americans generally pay more in taxes than we do, but prices there seem smaller because they fleece their taxpayers in a different way.

[tomcat_driver]

9 hours ago, BitMaster said:

My eyes always give water when I read the prices in the US and then open up a german retailer and compare, it's 10-20ish% I'd say in general.

10% on a 80$ SSD is a bitter-sweet pill, 20% on a 2000$ GPU is an extra-bitter pill to swallow.

Talking about EU prices, Reverb G2 in US $449, EU 738€!!!

[Hoirtel]

Leaving aside the issue of prices, good 64gb kits of DDR5 just don't seem available outside of the US yet. I can see them on newegg, not sure if overseas shopping would be a good idea. 

This leaves the EU DCS choice for X3D as decent 32gb or slower 64gb at c40, maybe c36. Don't think these are b die either.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Hoirtel

[Tom Kazansky]

1 hour ago, tomcat_driver said:

Talking about EU prices, Reverb G2 in US $449, EU 738€!!!

HP Store Germany today:

HP Reverb G2 VR Headset (Rev. 2) inkl. 2 Motion-Controller
649,00 € (19% tax and shipping included)

edit: yeah, still more expensive even with US taxes added.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Tom Kazansky