'Laser' Malfunction after RE-ARM bug - any news?

Dropbear · January 21, 2009

Hi All! This is about my only serious issue with the game, but boy is it doozy... I am sure by now most of you are familiar with it..

You land , re-arm and when you get back on station, you can no longer lock up your targets, get a 'c' to fire clearance etc...

If this is not a 'bug' but some how a simulated feature of the game - can we get some word from the devs on how long we can leave the laser switched on for - and if we need to switch it off, how long it needs to be off to cool down etc ... I am fairly sure the bug is a bug, but I'll give the devs a chance to prove me wrong ;)...

Can we have some feedback please - is it a bug, and if so, when will it be patched? If not, how do we stop it from happening?

geogob · January 21, 2009

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35496

It's known and was discussed. AFAIK, the dev said they were aware of the issue and knew how to reproduce it. I guess it's going to be fixed in an eventual patch (but that's just a guess). I doubt you'll see any correction for this until a patch is released.

Ulrich · January 21, 2009

First of all, it has nothing common with rearming.

I may add some info to

Ok. Though some issues are present with laser rangefinder, I may also say that:

laser rangefinder has limitations: 5 series with intervals of 30 minutes; 16 cycles of 10 seconds with intervals of 5 seconds in each serie. You may be not following these rules in your flights (and make more range counts than it is possible) and this will result in not working rangefinder. Not a bug but a feature.

and say that laser rangefinder resource depends on many factors such as number of "switching on" operations and so on, but its total working time cannot exceed 20 minutes without repairing in ideal use case and this is normal (you have to make maintenance operations after flight in real life), though there really is an issue when the switch works inverted (it should be moved both by mouse and keyboard to reproduce this). This (inverted switch issue) may be fixed in patch (not sure).

Edited January 21, 2009 by Ulrich

McVittees · January 21, 2009

It would help if there was an output log at the end of a mission with system failures, so we could see if the laser range finder (or anything else for that matter) had failed due to system modeling and not a bug

(I've already mentioned this in the wish list so apologies for repeating here).

Edited January 21, 2009 by McVittees
clarity

AndyHill · January 21, 2009

It would help if there was an output log at the end of a mission with system failures, so we could see if the laser range finder (or anything else for that matter) had failed due to system modeling and not a bug

(I've already mentioned this in the wish list so apologies for repeating here).

I have to say that this is a thoroughly fantastic idea. I think such a feature already exists in the real chopper, does Black Shark output the same kind of data?

Dropbear · January 22, 2009

Given the limitations of the campaign (dumb AI wingman, you alone saving the world etc) it would be nice if this 'feature' as you call it (which I disagree with, but oh well) was switchable some how. A non failing laser would be nice.

January 22, 2009

Given the limitations of the campaign (dumb AI wingman, you alone saving the world etc) it would be nice if this 'feature' as you call it (which I disagree with, but oh well) was switchable some how. A non failing laser would be nice.

Umm. A developer of the game just told you that the ingame laser is designed to fail with a certain number/duration of uses, as that is what happens in real life. I do not understand how you can "disagree" that it is a feature unless you have some evidence that the laser does not in fact fail in real life as claimed (in which case I would expect you to share your evidence).

Vapour · January 22, 2009

Umm. A developer of the game just told you that the ingame laser is designed to fail with a certain number/duration of uses, as that is what happens in real life. I do not understand how you can "disagree" that it is a feature unless you have some evidence that the laser does not in fact fail in real life as claimed (in which case I would expect you to share your evidence).

It would still be nice to have the option to turn laser failure off without dumbing other thing down too. In a coop it's quicker to go to spectator view and rejoin in a fresh shark than to wait 3 mins for things to be fixed. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with some, thats my opinion.

January 22, 2009

It would still be nice to have the option to turn laser failure off without dumbing other thing down too. In a coop it's quicker to go to spectator view and rejoin in a fresh shark than to wait 3 mins for things to be fixed. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with some, thats my opinion.

Thats fine...I have no problem to the feature request. I suggest using the "wish list" sticky at the top so it doesn't get missed.

What I objected to was the attitude shown to one of the developers that took the time to personally and definitively answer the OPs question.

Mad Dog 7.62 · January 22, 2009

So....5 series of 16 laser bursts means that the laser "fails" after 80 uses. 16 cycles of 10 seconds x 5 = a useable life of just over 13 minutes for the laser? And thats allowing it to cool for 30 minutes between cycles.....I am certainly not a laser expert but that doesn't sound right. I can see a need to let the laser cool....but for it to fail altogether after 13 minutes of use does not seem right.

And in any case, the OP is right....we need to know exactly how this "feature" works so we know how the cooling cycles and life cycle of the laser is calculated and what we can do to avoid having it fail at a critical time.....I am sure the real pilots have that info.

MD

Frederf · January 22, 2009

Also if ED is modeling the laser to fail after the allocated number of cycles recommended then they are doing it wrong. Real engineering has this thing called safety margin.

Slayer · January 23, 2009

Just goto the gas station and buy a handful of those cheap pen lazers and a roll of duct tape. Problem solved ! :thumbup:

Mad Dog 7.62 · January 23, 2009

With the reputation Russian military hardware has for being simple, robust, and reliable, a laser that has a service life of 13 minutes seems a little.....un-Russian.

Dropbear · January 23, 2009

Umm. A developer of the game just told you that the ingame laser is designed to fail with a certain number/duration of uses, as that is what happens in real life. I do not understand how you can "disagree" that it is a feature unless you have some evidence that the laser does not in fact fail in real life as claimed (in which case I would expect you to share your evidence).

Re-read what I wrote ... "GIVEN THE LIMITATIONS OF THE GAME"...

With dumb AI wingmen etc it's often impractical to kill all primaries or secondaries before the laser fries itself. A little less attitude in the future might go down better.

January 23, 2009

Re-read what I wrote ... "GIVEN THE LIMITATIONS OF THE GAME"...

With dumb AI wingmen etc it's often impractical to kill all primaries or secondaries before the laser fries itself. A little less attitude in the future might go down better.

I know exactly what you wrote. Assuming you read my subsequent post, you already know that I have no problem with the feature request.

However, you basically accused an ED dev of lying about whether the failing laser was an intended feature (e.g. you said "this 'feature' as you call it (which I disagree with, but oh well)"). IMHO that statement is pretty disrespectful to someone who has worked hard to bring us this product, and is trying to help you by directly answering a question you asked. If that was your intent, then I suggest you take your own advice, as expressed in your last sentence above. If that was not your intent, then I apologize.

In any case, not much point in carrying on with this. Good luck, enjoy the sim, and I hope you get your non-frying-laser-switch implemented one day.:thumbup:

geogob · January 23, 2009

I've yet to see a laser fail due to overuse in DCS. All I can see is the laser still working, but not as intended.

Frederf · January 23, 2009

Do we even know that all of these laser failures are do to realistically simulated failure or that there may be some sort of bug?

littlejohn1959 · January 23, 2009

i have a question .

is there a warning that comes up anywheres telling me that the laser is overheating? i dont expect a '' look buddy , ya freakin laser is frying'' .

but maybe there's a lite or gauge or audiable thingy?

if not ,, why not ? shes all computerized . im sure there must be sensors on the laser for heat?

i hope im overlooking,,,, a warning.

again , ill say ,, its a fantastic sim ,,,, but this laser thing , is very frustrating .

wheres the warning?

cheers from here .

predaeus · January 23, 2009

Asfaik it is common that the laser emiters of laser-range-finders on helicopters, tanks and airplanes have to cool down after usage. So I guess just like with all those systems, the laser-range-finder on the Blackshark has to cool down and must not be used continuously or it will burn-out or whatever. So since you have this knowledge now too, just switch it off dammit when not needed and stop whining.

But if this information is missing in the manual it might be good to add it for the uninformed or add it to the README if possible.

Shepski · January 23, 2009

Is it realistic for a real Ka-50 pilot to take off on a mission and return to land and rearm multiple times with a 30 second break between take of and landing(the amount of time in game for a hot rearm and refuel)? Don't you think routine maintenance would be required in that time frame?

Is it realistic for a real Ka-50 to have it's laser powered long enough to reach it's operational life in one mission?

You want realism but when it doesn't suit your needs you complain... the developers just can't win.

littlejohn1959 · January 23, 2009

Asfaik it is common that the laser emiters of laser-range-finders on helicopters, tanks and airplanes have to cool down after usage. So I guess just like with all those systems, the laser-range-finder on the Blackshark has to cool down and must not be used continuously or it will burn-out or whatever. So since you have this knowledge now too, just switch it off dammit when not needed and stop whining.

But if this information is missing in the manual it might be good to add it for the uninformed or add it to the README if possible.

i dont think its all whining mate . we are just trying to figure out how to work it .

its not in the manual. why not?

is it a feature , an issue , a bug ,, what?

theres no warning. why not?

if your car overheats , you gets a warning.

seems strange , that a highly computerized machine ,just stops working , without a warning .

this thing wont go away no time soon .

the list of people having this problem , is growing , daily .

it needs to be looked into .

again .

thats my 2 cents .

have a great weekend .

cheers .

GGTharos · January 23, 2009

There is no warning.

It is not a bug (Aside from the switch flipping issue)

And it does not need to be looked into ;)

It was omitted from the manual for un-known reasons (possibly oversight).

You have now been informed as to the lasers limitations.

Next step: Live with it. ;)

littlejohn1959 · January 23, 2009

There is no warning.
It is not a bug (Aside from the switch flipping issue)
And it does not need to be looked into ;)

It was omitted from the manual for un-known reasons (possibly oversight).

You have now been informed as to the lasers limitations.

Next step: Live with it. ;)

or,,,,,, i could live ,, without it,, mate . ;)

for me ,this laser case , is officially , closed . :thumbup:

thanks for your time .

from here ,,

its ,,

cheers .

Axion · January 23, 2009

Is there anything else that has been omitted that we should know about? ;)

Edited January 23, 2009 by Axion

Shepski · January 23, 2009

i dont think its all whining mate . we are just trying to figure out how to work it .
its not in the manual. why not?
is it a feature , an issue , a bug ,, what?
theres no warning. why not?
if your car overheats , you gets a warning.
seems strange , that a highly computerized machine ,just stops working , without a warning .

How about the Ka-50 was never designed to be operated long enough in one mission to ever come close to reaching the lifespan of the laser. It's also possible the laser receives routine mtce during down time.

You guys are flying it as if mtce is not a concern... just keep rearming and heading off to blow stuff up as long as you want. Well, as you now know, the machine has limits. :)

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