F15c “Scan Zone Up” and “Scan Zone Down” Problem

[-Vindicator-]

I’ve been flying the F15c for many years but in the last several months I’ve been having problems with “Scan Zone Up” and “Scan Zone Down” on my joystick.  My joystick is a Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog joystick.  For the “Scan Zone Up” and “Scan Zone Down” functions I use the top right, 8-way, hat on the joystick.  The joystick manual refers to that hat as the “Trim Switch.”  To operate “Scan Zone Up” I move the hat up (“JOY BTN POV1 U”); to operate “Scan Zone Down” I move that hat down (“JOY BTN POV1 D”).

 

The problem is that when I move the scan zone up or down in the VSD, the scan zone sticks.  The  scan zone information will show the high circle and altitude for the high elevation coverage limit, and the lower circle and altitude for the low elevation coverage limit, but frequently when I try to move the zone and circles up or down I can’t.  Sometimes the upper and lower circles, and corresponding scan zone, disappear completely at the top of the VSD, and I can’t move the scan zone down.  

 

The problem doesn’t seem to be my particular joystick.  I bought a new Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog joystick and experience the same problem with the new joystick.  I’ve checked “Adjust Controls”; there is no double binding issue.  I’ve plugged the joystick USB plug into a different port; I experience the same problem.  I ran DCS Repair to no avail.  I sent a “trouble ticket” to DCS on 12-26-22, but I have heard nothing back other than that the ticket has been accepted;  I assume some delay is caused by the holidays.  (My buying a new joystick is my problem and mine alone, but if the joystick is not causing the scan zone problem, I’d like to know so I can get a refund on the joystick before the refund period expires.)  I could include a track but the most it would show is a sticky or frozen scan zone, or one that has entirely disappeared.

 

Is this a bug?  If not, does anyone have any suggestions as to how to fix this?  (If I should have posted this elsewhere please let me know and I’ll post it appropriately.)  Thank you!!!

Edited January 11, 2023 by -Vindicator-
Correction

[Nahen]

Maybe just try to connect this function to another button /switch on, for example, the throttle?

Generally, your settings are quite strange since you don't have trim in the place of trim ... maybe rebind everything in a way similar to the real HOTAS from F-15 and it will be after the problem?

I assure you that McDonnell Douglas engineers quite sensibly thought about where what is on the stick and throttle.

It is true that there is no knob on the Warthog to control the vertical position of the radar antenna, but you can safely connect it to one of the switches on the throttle.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Nahen

[Nahen]

And if you insist on having it here, check if you don't have double-binded functions on this switch.
This is quite a common problem with this.

[Ironhand]

You might want to double check the UI layer for conflicts, if you haven’t already. If you still can’t find anything, does it work with the keyboard commands with the stick unplugged? With the stick plugged in?

The most likely culprit remains an undiscovered conflict. DCS updates like to surreptitiously change assignments.

[draconus]

Check also for axis assignment - DCS applies some default device profiles which may not work correctly or as you wished for.

[-Vindicator-]

Thanks to all of you for your great answers!  I’ll follow through and tell you how it went.  Again, thanks!

[Nahen]

If you want, I can send you "drawings" with functions on a real HOTAS in F-15A/C. You can do most of it the same way on the Warthog plus a few modifications. It works very good in my opinion.

[falcon_120]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:00 AM, Nahen said:

 

Generally, your settings are quite strange since you don't have trim in the place of trim ... maybe rebind everything in a way similar to the real HOTAS from F-15 and it will be after the problem?

I assure you that McDonnell Douglas engineers quite sensibly thought about where what is on the stick and throttle.

I

 

Are you somehow implyin the problem must be related to the button chose for the scan up/down because there might be incompatibilities with the trim hat? And relating it to MD engineers selection for the real aircraft?

The logic just blew my mind away. 

 

TO the OP: probably is a double assignment in a layer you dont directly see, sometimes DCS does crazy things. But for sure you can assign it to the trim alright as far as your trim hat has no HW problems (spikes, USB microdisconnections...)

[Nahen]

30 minutes ago, falcon_120 said:

Are you somehow implyin the problem must be related to the button chose for the scan up/down because there might be incompatibilities with the trim hat? And relating it to MD engineers selection for the real aircraft?

The logic just blew my mind away. 

 

TO the OP: probably is a double assignment in a layer you dont directly see, sometimes DCS does crazy things. But for sure you can assign it to the trim alright as far as your trim hat has no HW problems (spikes, USB microdisconnections...)

It so happens that the default settings on this particular switch/hat do not correspond to the antenna movement settings. By default - as far as I remember - the antenna movement is on axes. That is, assigning the antenna movement to the trim-switch and at the same time not eliminating the setting on the axes can cause problems - duplicated setting. So assigning the settings in a way that is close to real avoids this problem - right? On the trim-switch, there is the trimming of the plane - as in reality and as the switch is physically described on the joystick - and not the antenna movement, so there is no problem with a double bind - is this still logic that blows your brain? If so, well... I can only sympathize...

 

Besides, you wrote everything that has already been written in at least three posts above. So what new did you want to add?

[falcon_120]

It so happens that the default settings on this particular switch/hat do not correspond to the antenna movement settings. By default - as far as I remember - the antenna movement is on axes. That is, assigning the antenna movement to the trim-switch and at the same time not eliminating the setting on the axes can cause problems - duplicated setting. So assigning the settings in a way that is close to real avoids this problem - right? On the trim-switch, there is the trimming of the plane - as in reality and as the switch is physically described on the joystick - and not the antenna movement, so there is no problem with a double bind - is this still logic that blows your brain? If so, well... I can only sympathize...
 
Besides, you wrote everything that has already been written in at least three posts above. So what new did you want to add?

What blew my mind was your comment connecting it somehow to MD engineers and the real aircraft. I thought WTF has does to do with the OP problem XD

Ofc what you have written in the last post is different, logic and something I agree with.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[DukeAngus]

i have all my planes antenna elevations to a hat with a modifier, so i can personally attest that antenna elevations can work without issue with hat switches.

[Nahen]

7 hours ago, DukeAngus said:

i have all my planes antenna elevations to a hat with a modifier, so i can personally attest that antenna elevations can work without issue with hat switches.

Unless there is a double bind with something else or the same with the axes in the settings.

[Nahen]

Anyway, if someone uses the Warthog set from Trustmaster or other at least or more "extended" sets in terms of switches, buttons, axes, etc., I don't understand why they don't try to set HOTAS as it is in real plane? Firstly, in my opinion, it is an element of simulation, and secondly, someone thought it through so that it would work in reality, so it must work in the case of a simulation game.
And I completely do not understand how someone starts and comes to someone "for their settings" ... It has never happened to me that someone's "original" settings on HOTAS suit me.

I prefer to start with "real" ones and possibly modify them for myself.

I've seen buttons, switches and axes so strangely "signed" that it would never have crossed my mind. I understand that it may be convenient for someone, for example, to have an inverted "pitch", rudder or a trigger somewhere on the throttle... but these are quite individual cases in my opinion ... maybe even calling for some specialized research

[Ironhand]

So I wonder if @-Vindicator- ever got his situation resolved.

[DukeAngus]

@Nahen

i cant speak for everyone, but the reason why i have have very few of the switches in the same place as the real life plane, is because i only have a joystick and no throttle. i bought a winwing f-16ex stick and with modifiers i have been able to map the throttle and the joystick to my one joystick. is it optimal probably not, but i have the muscle memory to change things when i need. here is an example of  a reason to not have it exactly like real life, when flying the f-16 and f-18 i have some of the osd buttons bound to my stick to  change what ever i need to in the moment instead of looking around to click switches in the cockpit, some examples are the osd buttons, so i can change the range of the radars, so instead of having to wait for the curser to run up the screen a time or two. or  in the f-16 in dgft mode i have one of the left osd  buttons bound to my stick so that way i can cycle through radar scan pattern with a click too. i also have the same switches bound to the same place with all of my planes that way i dont have to remember 10 different locations to select a missile or soi or spi.  is this for everyone no,  everyone has there own interest in how close to real life you want to be, or how do things work best for me for my particular situation. in my experience how good you are at flying in dcs has more to do with when and where you put the plane in that particular moment  and not how you put the plane there.

 

[Nahen]

29 minutes ago, DukeAngus said:

@Nahen

 

In no way will I argue with people like you - flying on a joystick and keyboard, etc. This is a completely different matter and I understand that in such situations there is no other way.

The author of this thread wrote that he uses the Warthog kit. So in 98% it is able to set it up like in a real F-15C fighter. Literally a few positions have to be "recombined" - including changing the elevation of the radar antenna - the Warthog does not have a knob on the throttle.

That's why I wrote that I'm surprised people who use complex sets such as Warthog, WinWing, WirPil and similar, that they don't set everything as close as possible to real HOTAS. If someone doesn't have such opportunities - I understand and in this case it's not a problem at all, You have to deal with it differently.

[DukeAngus]

@Nahen  im sorry if you took my comment as argumentative, i was conveying to you that there are other reasons to set your controls up other than how one manufacture did a half a century ago. 

Respectfully,

People like ME

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, DukeAngus said:

@Nahen  im sorry if you took my comment as argumentative, i was conveying to you that there are other reasons to set your controls up other than how one manufacture did a half a century ago. 

Respectfully,

People like ME

Ummm…he was agreeing with you.

[Nahen]

2 hours ago, DukeAngus said:

@Nahen  przepraszam, jeśli odebrałeś mój komentarz jako argument, chciałem ci powiedzieć, że istnieją inne powody, dla których warto ustawić kontrolę, niż to, które zrobiła jedna firma pół wieku temu. 

Z szacunkiem,

Ludzie mnie lubią

I completely agree that without having a most enhanced HOTAS it is impossible to solve some settings. You have to use what is there But on Thrustmaster Warthog you can easily map "the original" HOTAS from the F-15C with minor exceptions.
No need to apologize or anything, I 100% agree with you

[-Vindicator-]

Ok, again, thanks a million to all of you for your great suggestions—I got it working!  I’m sorry I didn’t get back to you earlier but I was tied up IRL.  
 

I checked for double-binding on the Trim switch, the UI layer for conflicts, and the axis assignment; no problems there and I could find no other conflict.  I then tried Ironhand’s suggestion.  The “Scan Zone Up” and “Scan Zone Down” functions worked fine with the keyboard commands (with or without the joystick plugged in) but the functions were still sticky when I used the joystick.  So I simply swapped all functions on my Trim Switch to another switch and vice-versa, and everything’s fine!  Thanks again!!

[Ironhand]

Excellent! And thanks for letting us know the solution.