Missing target reticle HUD limits

[gnomechild]

From my understanding of how the TH-CSF 196 sight should operate, the target reticle that appears when radar lock is achieved should always be visible on the sight glass. Even when the locked target is outside of it, the reticle should move towards the target to show the relative direction but then stop within the limits of travel. My source for this is a manual for the Libyan Mirage F1ED which uses the same sight as our F1CE. The manual is not classified or restricted, so I will post a couple of screenshots that I think indicate this behavior. 

[Vibora]

This is pending. Txs.

[riojax]

The radar target reticle must to be confined to the HUD area, if a contact is out of this zone, the target reticle must to stay in the border. For example, in this image, the red marked plane is locked, and the missing target reticle should to be near the blue circle, that is the HUD limit.

[gulredrel]

Thought the same trying to find the locked target without knowing it's altitude in the clouds.

[Bremspropeller]

+1

IIRC it used to be in the first release but somehow vanished in some patch.

[MBot]

That is actually pretty important feature to me. I frequently fail to get a visual on bogeys I lock up before the merge.

[gulredrel]

@Vibora: Is still an open topic as commented in the post below!?

Also do you have the radar command reticle not working every time!? Or is it weapon dependent? Need to investigate and maybe report in a different post.

[MysteriousHonza]

On 10/20/2022 at 5:52 PM, Vibora said:

This is pending. Txs.

Hi, may i ask how high on fix list it is? Lets say its pretty damn important in AA combat while using only radar and its highly uncomfortable to use it in bvr without knowing where exactly enemy is compared to your nose. It was fine with short ranged R530 but now with S530F. Its pretty "gamebraking".

[fausete]

Hello, we've been checking this and we've found the radar target indicator limits are correct and it's working as intended. The situation you are describing comes from the 2D display of a collimator sight and is actually present in all DCS modules. To sumarise, the target mark limits are beyond the instantaneous sight FOV with the default head position.

If you move the pilot head forward or sideways (depending on target position) or use VR, you should be able to see the orange square in the limits of the HUD.

[fausete]

Hello, we've been checking this and we've found the radar target indicator limits are correct and it's working as intended. The situation you are describing comes from the 2D display of a collimator sight and is actually present in all DCS modules. To sumarise, the target mark limits are beyond the instantaneous sight FOV with the default head position.

If you move the pilot head forward or sideways (depending on target position) or use VR, you should be able to see the orange square in the limits of the HUD.

[gulredrel]

Not using VR, will try to shift my view to see if the square gets visible before the target is behind the glas.

[gulredrel]

Not quite sure if this is it.

I moved my head with cockpit camera move forward / left / right / back in the following position, max forward:

one second later and some degrees nose up, the square comes into view:

here it is visible on the left side, okay.

 

But here to screenshots with two seconds apart and markings on this time:

no more visible two seconds later without changing head position, only steering a tiny bit nose lower:

Also looks like rolling the aircraft, the dot gets lost at the edges? View forward and in so that there is so much of the glass visible with the pitch ladder, the dot should be there as it is visible in image three well away from the pitch ladder if you would draw a rectangle around pitch ladder?

[gnomechild]

3 hours ago, fausete said:

Hello, we've been checking this and we've found the radar target indicator limits are correct and it's working as intended. The situation you are describing comes from the 2D display of a collimator sight and is actually present in all DCS modules. To sumarise, the target mark limits are beyond the instantaneous sight FOV with the default head position.

If you move the pilot head forward or sideways (depending on target position) or use VR, you should be able to see the orange square in the limits of the HUD.

Is this something coming in the next patch? Because I don't think this is the case in game right now. I am linking a short video I took just now locking a target above me and to the right and the indicator cannot be found anywhere in the sight until I turn to point at the target within the confines of the glass.
 

 

F1CE HUD Indicator.trk

Edited February 27, 2023 by gnomechild
Adding video link and track

[gulredrel]

12 minutes ago, gnomechild said:

Is this something coming in the next patch? Because I don't think this is the case in game right now. I am linking a short video I took just now locking a target above me and to the right and the indicator cannot be found anywhere in the sight until I turn to point at the target within the confines of the glass.
 

 

F1CE HUD Indicator.trk 371.86 kB · 0 downloads

 

Have you selected AA guns or missiles? I think the symbology together with the intercept cue is only visible with weapon selected. Could you please retry if this changes something? I've posted some pictures in the second thread. Looks a bit strange even with the symbology but I don't use TIR or VR, only shifting view with cockpit camera position. Would like to see the results in your video.

@fausete Maybe these threads could be merged?

[gnomechild]

5 minutes ago, gulredrel said:

Have you selected AA guns or missiles? I think the symbology together with the intercept cue is only visible with weapon selected. Could you please retry if this changes something? I've posted some pictures in the second thread. Looks a bit strange even with the symbology but I don't use TIR or VR, only shifting view with cockpit camera position. Would like to see the results in your video.

You can see (or maybe not, might have to wait for HD to be available) but after I turn to the right and pull my nose up the locked target indicator becomes visible in the HUD glass

[gulredrel]

Ah, okay, thanks, I see now. So this looks similar to my findings being dependent on roll angle and target offset angle.

[fausete]

Okay, thanks for the reports. We're going to check the total FOV of the sight, in case there's a problem there.

[MysteriousHonza]

So, ive tried it in MP session and it shows the box only in certain portions of gunsight. The moment i start rolling, box dissapears. It should stay in sight. Even if realistic that we have to move head a lot, its game, its 2D environment for most of us, some compromises could/should be made to make it easier to see in 2D cuz RN, its more of luck than constant thing, to see the box. Its either not there at all or only small fraction is visible so its almost impossible to notice it and it seems it works, ONLY in horizontal plane, The moment box travels up/down, it disappears 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by MysteriousHonza

[riojax]

Still present on OB 2.8.4.38947

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f1.trk

[riojax]

Still present on OB 2.8.4.39313

[MBot]

This is still a problem I notice in almost every fight.

[gulredrel]

From the last patch notes:

"The Optical Sight target symbol doesn’t disappear anymore when it is near its movement limits."

Is this a change for the behavior described above?

I'm on current OB and had the target square disappearing today.

[riojax]

Fixed in latest OB
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[gulredrel]

Don't know. It disappeared at the top of the HUD glass for me. To the right it was visible at the edge. As it was described above and hopefully I understood it right, it will only disappear at the bottom of the glass.

 

and here, with the plane even visible as a small pixel, the square went away at the top. Didn't caught the screenshot, when the orange square was halfway visible.

[Snappy]

2 hours ago, gulredrel said:

Don't know. It disappeared at the top of the HUD glass for me. To the right it was visible at the edge. As it was described above and hopefully I understood it right, it will only disappear at the bottom of the glass.

 

and here, with the plane even visible as a small pixel, the square went away at the top. Didn't caught the screenshot, when the orange square was halfway visible.

Yes , at the top the glass the target dot still disappears even before reaching the edge. I captured a shot where you can see the dot begin to disappear, (only its lower half is still visible in my pic ) while still not at the actual edge of the glass :

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Edited August 29, 2023 by Snappy