LOMAC v1.1 copy protection – good news/bad news

[Bogun]

:!: At the moment we consider an opportunity of application of other protection for English version 1.1. I shall not answer questions while we shall not define precisely.

 

Finally!

Please, don’t punish us for being willing and loyal customers (having copy protection is fine, just not the StarForce)…

Chizh, ED - good luck with all your current and future projects.

My PayPal account is already setup to pay for all of them…

[JG27_Arklight]

Of course, by ED having to go look for another means of copy protection we have probably just added another few weeks on to release.

 

That should put the release right about the time of some much more family oriented issues, not to mention exam time at my university.

 

Great.

 

I say we just stick with the SF stuff. If it is better for ED in the long run maybe it is better overall.

[Nate--IRL--]

The best system i have seen for copy protection is used for the Game Live for Speed. It is similar to Lock on, in that it is a , internet distributed game, directly from the developers.

 

With LFS you get to Apply for re activation up to 3 times per month. Your old key is deleted and your new one is the only one that works.

 

I STRONGLY suggest ED check out the copy protection used by the guys at http://www.liveforspeed.com , it is BY FAR the easiest, most transparent and secure copy protection.

 

Nate

 

Edit:- from the LFS faq.

 

Answer to: How often can I unlock?:

Initially you will be granted 3 unlocks. In addition, you get an additional unlock available every first day of the month, provided you do not already have 2 unlocks available. So unless you are having severe problems with your computer, you should be fine and always able to unlock LFS again after a reinstallation of Windows for example, or when you buy new computer parts a a whole new computer.

 

 

Answer to: How can I unlock LFS S1?:

If you have purchased an S1 or S2 license, you can unlock LFS S1 (and S2 when it's released), doing the following:

Go to your license status page and click on 'Request unlock'.

Then start LFS and enter your username and GAMEpassword on the unlock page.

 

Just thought i'd bump this so it doesn't get lost in the torrent of this thread, ED you may want to talk to these devs, thay have been through all of this before with their customers, and now have a near ideal situation for copy protection.

 

Nate

[golfsierra2]

From what I have learned from my contacts at TFC/ED this is all a big nothing. They know what they are doing and have researched this subject in depth. They will make a statement at the appropriate time. I'm not their spokesman and I sure as hell don't miss having to deal with hysteria like this crap. Some of you are really being ignorant. If the shoe fits, wear it. Why not wait for the facts?

 

Fact: StarForce previously caused trouble when it was released with other games. Enough complaints are around the internet.

 

I don't blame TFC/ED for wanting a robust and effective means of copy protection and I have complete faith that they know what the hell they are doing with regard to this matter.

 

Have to disagree here

Fact: FC demo was delivered with StarForce copy protection in it, StarForce installed itself on all the computers testing the demo and it remained there when the demo was de-installed, with no notice whatsoever to the users.

Question 1: Why came that demo with an copy protection anyway ?

Question 2: Why was StarForce installed on the computers without any EULA, installation notice or else ?

Question 3: Why doesn't StarForce de-install itself when the demo is de-installed, means a software then good for nothing stays on that computer ?

 

Most of the things being speculated about how the scheme will work and what it will do or not do are being made without any official information from TFC/ED. They'll make a statement after all this ranting dies down and they can address your concerns in logical and factual manner.

 

Beg you pardon, this is no ranting but a strange behavior of ED which caused this discussion in the first place.

 

Until then, let the drama continue. At least they get see the speculation that they get to blow away when the facts are presented.

 

It's a shame that some of you are abandoning this product without having any real facts.

 

The facts and questions stated by me should be enough to raise an eyebrow at ED and hopefully makes them rethink this whole issue. Chizh's message that a better solution for the English version will be looked for is very promising.

[Stormin]

From what I have learned from my contacts at TFC/ED this is all a big nothing. They know what they are doing and have researched this subject in depth. They will make a statement at the appropriate time. I'm not their spokesman and I sure as hell don't miss having to deal with hysteria like this crap. Some of you are really being ignorant. If the shoe fits, wear it. Why not wait for the facts?

 

 

The fact is this highly controversial piece of software ended on my PC after installing the demo, from a software vendor I did trust, without an appropriate warning.

I hope you do not refer to that with "They know what they are doing ..." ?

 

I am very supportive of ED finding a good, viable solution to distribute their software over the internet without being ripped, but I'm having doubts if they are chosing the right partner and I think they missed an opportunity to communicate about that BEFORE I installed the demo.

 

So, in the future, I would appreciate that their "in-depth subject research" would not take place on MY PC, tnx.

 

Let's remove our tinfoil hats for a second. Just what did this copy protection routine do to you or your system that is so evil? Please provide some specifics.

[JG27_Arklight]

Stormin, I know you aren't asking me but I said it above and I'll say it again...

 

The addition of SF did NOTHING to my system.

 

I wouldn't have even known it's there if it weren't for this thread.

 

Everything is fine on my end.

 

No black helicopter theories here.

[maks1]

attn stormin

 

as i was not aware of the starforce thing , i turned on my pc this evening and for the first time in 2years with use of symantec norton i got a msg that norton had blocked a trojan virus or something , also my live update part of norton stays red iso green after confirmation ex norton that all updates are up to date

 

i do not say that this is due to this starforce program but it is a strange coincedence

 

i have searched in the reg but pc confirms no starforce items located neither when looking for files like starforce.exe

 

hope anyone can help or advise if same happens on their pc

 

brgds maks

[Stormin]

I find it highly unlikely that the demo or the copy protection scheme had anything to do with a trojan virus appearing on your system.

[Cosmonaut]

12 pages already!!

 

Well I have to say that this is the most disappointing news I have heard in a long time. I’m not going to make a final decision until ED comments on the concerns raised in this thread. However and I can’t believe I’m going to say this but as things stand right now I probably wont be buying FC when its released. The most worrying part for me is having an add-on dictate my upgrade habits and having a clock ticking down where I might have to repurchase the software again after three major hardware changes. I have read that this might not be the case and I will only have to provide proof of purchase…but what kind of hoops am I going to have to jump through just to reinstall a game? I want the freedom to install and uninstall when ever I please and I don’t want to be treated like a pirate every time I upgrade my system.

 

Although I would be the first to admit I am in panic mode right now and I just hope we can get some official comment on all of this soon.

 

how is it treating you like a pirate to ask to verify your license after 3 major upgrades. That means dropping in a new video card, motherboard or cpu. So maybe once a year, if you are an upgrade freak you would have to spend 5 minutes getting a new key. I really fail to see how that makes it treating you like a pirate.

 

 

I guess everyone has different toleration levels of what they are willing to go through in the fight against piracy. Especially when most honest gamers are the ones having to put up with ever increasing privacy and control issues like spyware or limited control over their installation, while the true pirates still run a muck downloading the software with out any limitations. Personally I don’t mind having to place a CD in the tray every time I play a game ..like I did for Raven Shield but having to continuously verify my license for the addon doesn’t seem right to me as I understand it… but like I said with out any official word, all we can do is try and inform ED of how we feel about the situation even if it is just speculative.

 

I hope Stormin is right and we are all just panicking.. to be honest it does feel that way but I guess we will have wait and see.

[Nomad]

Duh. Lots of ppl who still dont understand. I feel that I have to say this. For you slow people:

 

Installing SF with a demo is one of the protection routines!!

This is done to prevent hackers from using demo files to crack the release version. So dont get all excited over SF being installed with the demo.

[Stormin]

An informative article and an interview with someone from Starforce:

 

http://www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/

 

Note the part about the publisher/developer having many choices on how to configure the routine.

[Cosmonaut]

attn stormin

 

as i was not aware of the starforce thing , i turned on my pc this evening and for the first time in 2years with use of symantec norton i got a msg that norton had blocked a trojan virus or something , also my live update part of norton stays red iso green after confirmation ex norton that all updates are up to date

 

i do not say that this is due to this starforce program but it is a strange coincedence

 

i have searched in the reg but pc confirms no starforce items located neither when looking for files like starforce.exe

 

hope anyone can help or advise if same happens on their pc

 

brgds maks

 

Ok first I’m not trying to add fuel to the paranoia machine but exactly the same thing happened too me two days ago .. is it due to the Demo? I have no idea but hopefully it’s just a coincidence.

[Stormin]

attn stormin

 

as i was not aware of the starforce thing , i turned on my pc this evening and for the first time in 2years with use of symantec norton i got a msg that norton had blocked a trojan virus or something , also my live update part of norton stays red iso green after confirmation ex norton that all updates are up to date

 

i do not say that this is due to this starforce program but it is a strange coincedence

 

i have searched in the reg but pc confirms no starforce items located neither when looking for files like starforce.exe

 

hope anyone can help or advise if same happens on their pc

 

brgds maks

 

Ok first I’m not trying to add fuel to the paranoia machine but exactly the same thing happened too me two days ago .. is it due to the Demo? I have no idea but hopefully it’s just a coincidence.

 

Come on. Could it be that the virus hit the internet and spread during the same period of time?

 

I say coincidence.

 

My computer crashed hard this past weekend and would not reboot. It turned out I had a bad drive for my IEEE 1394 port for my iPod. I booted in Safe Mode, fixed the driver and everything is peachy. It wasn't Lock On or Starforce's problem.

[schimmel]

Let's remove our tinfoil hats for a second. Just what did this copy protection routine do to you or your system that is so evil? Please provide some specifics.

 

This has nothing to do with evil or good.

 

The debate is about taking a risk or not. The nature of taking a risk is that you have very little facts. The feeling about a risk is often based on PERSONAL experience.

 

IMO nobody can prove that SF is secure nor that it is unsecure for now. Now it's your choice whether you want to take a ceratin risk to play a computer game or not. I'm not sure about this one and I'm still thinking about it and gathering information.

[schimmel]

Duh. Lots of ppl who still dont understand. I feel that I have to say this. For you slow people:

 

Installing SF with a demo is one of the protection routines!!

This is done to prevent hackers from using demo files to crack the release version. So dont get all excited over SF being installed with the demo.

 

What ppl don't understand is why ED didn't tell us that part? So ppl who don't like Starforce wouldn't have installed it. Ppl don't care why ED used Starforce in the demo.

[Ice]

Well if ED aren't paying Dmutt for his efforts, they should be.

 

Whatever is decided I support.

 

The way I see it. If I have to ring up or email somebody every now and again to reactivate my Lomac because I upgrade alot. (owning a pc store means I DO upgrade alot). Then this is a small price to pay for the best chance of future development of this piece of art we call lock-on.

 

Hopefully if successful and the conspiracy theorists give up and play something else for free. ED can afford to put their head down and develop the Dedicated server software and then (I still live in hope) F18 addon which for the Panthers at least is the mecca of addons.

 

"If you think you can. You will"

[Trident]

At the risk of repeating myself:

 

Question 1: Why came that demo with an copy protection anyway ?

 

Because otherwise pirates could use files/infomation from the demo to crack the full version's protection later. Sensible, since encrypting the demo files for instance will deny them info that could help get around the protection on the full release. This is from the FiringSquad interview.

 

Question 2: Why was StarForce installed on the computers without any EULA, installation notice or else ?

 

From what I've read in the FiringSquad interview there is no legal requirement for such a notice, and I can't remember getting one from other copy protection software either. That said, I agree that a heads-up in the EULA or readme would have been painless to include and could have defused some of the hysteria.

 

Question 3: Why doesn't StarForce de-install itself when the demo is de-installed, means a software then good for nothing stays on that computer?

 

Because ED obviously used an older version of Starforce or forgot to include the SFcleaner in the demo uninstaller. A simple mistake (and with hindsight the only one) that slipped by for no particular reason I guess. Do you really think Starforce or ED are trying to spy on us or something? What on earth would they find so fascinating about you or me? I don't think any of the involved parties has any dark intentions.

 

The only valid points against Starforce I can see are potential conflicts with hard- or software and the key validation scheme (depending on what the latter actually looks like). I have seen zero factual info about these regarding the Starforce version that ED wants to use (remember that, from what I could see, the problems with Starforce are now half a year old, there's no telling if newer versions are that bad) so I'll wait for official info there.

 

I'm beginning to think that Starforce may be better than its reputation.

[schimmel]

What on earth would they find so fascinating about you or me?.

 

Market research. What hardware do you have? Do you run emule? What do you share? How much do you play the game? The main interest would be the relation between those results.

 

Ok this is paranoid. But it's not like an internet user is of no interest for the business. And again, some would say this is ok and some not.

[Nasder]

golfsierra2 wrote:

Question 2: Why was StarForce installed on the computers without any EULA, installation notice or else ?

 

 

From what I've read in the FiringSquad interview there is no legal requirement for such a notice, and I can't remember getting one from other copy protection software either. That said, I agree that a heads-up in the EULA or readme would have been painless to include and could have defused some of the hysteria.

 

In Sweden, there is such a law now. A software may not be installed on my computer without my permission. All though I think it would be hard to take legal actions against ED for such a thing. I don't really mind at all, but there is a law for it in some countries.

 

I believe this is a miss. They could have taken five more minutes and added it to the EULA or readme file. But like I said, I don't really care. I haven't noticed anything wrong so far, and that 0.002 fps difference it might do while running in the background is nothing I notice :)

[Trident]

What on earth would they find so fascinating about you or me?.

 

Market research. What hardware do you have? Do you run emule? What do you share? How much do you play the game? The main interest would be the relation between those results.

 

Ok this is paranoid. But it's not like an internet user is of no interest for the business. And again, some would say this is ok and some not.

 

Point taken, in that case I'd of course want to know that I'm being used for a survey. OTOH, as far as I can see the sole mistake in this case is that ED somehow managed to ommit the unistaller for Starforce.

 

From where we are now that doesn't look like something that would justify 15 pages of panic and partially offensive rethoric, doesn't it? ;)

[JG27_Arklight]

This issue has already been addressed by the developer.

 

This thread should be locked.

[Stormin]

Let's remove our tinfoil hats for a second. Just what did this copy protection routine do to you or your system that is so evil? Please provide some specifics.

 

This has nothing to do with evil or good.

 

The debate is about taking a risk or not. The nature of taking a risk is that you have very little facts. The feeling about a risk is often based on PERSONAL experience.

 

IMO nobody can prove that SF is secure nor that it is unsecure for now. Now it's your choice whether you want to take a ceratin risk to play a computer game or not. I'm not sure about this one and I'm still thinking about it and gathering information.

 

Windows is not secure and yet I'll bet you run it every single day. The number of security upgrades is constant. That's life.

 

Come on, let's see some facts.

[Stormin]

This issue has already been addressed by the developer.

 

This thread should be locked.

 

Let the X-Files episode continue. It's almost entertaining.

[Nomad]

Yeah, wheres Mulder and Scully??

 

Lets see how they comment on this..

Oh

---The Truth is Out There...---

[Greenies]

This issue has already been addressed by the developer.

 

This thread should be locked.

 

Let the X-Files episode continue. It's almost entertaining.

 

Ok, I want to play the part of agent Dana Scully. I think I have a red wig lying about somewhere. Now let me see, where did I put that...