Mirage F1 EE dead after refueling.

[RDN_Garrett]

When refueling from tanker KC-130 (not tested with others) at the end of refueling occurred error "ALT. 2" (generator error as I understand it) after which a chain of failures began, and failed almost all systems, below is a screenshot with a list of failures. Occurrence was detected in several users in multшplayer with multitraiding. We will also attach a video of the problem. 

P.S. We also encountered the crash of the game when entering the spectators on Mirage F1, but for this we will make a separate thread

Here is the track of the "empty" mission not in multiplayer. DCS works in multithreading. Additionally attached the mission file

https://youtu.be/t6D-yDkpqfI

 

AAR failures.trk ARR Test M F1.miz

[Makakas]

I tried to repeat this error, in single-threaded mode the problem did not occur, but in multi-threaded mode I encountered the same problem, below I attach my test track in single-threaded mode.air refueling. single tread .trk

[Akzkiller]

Faced with the same problem.

[Loukuins]

1 hour ago, RDN_Garrett said:

When refueling from tanker KC-130 (not tested with others) at the end of refueling occurred error "ALT. 2" (generator error as I understand it) after which a chain of failures began, and failed almost all systems, below is a screenshot with a list of failures. Occurrence was detected in several users in multшplayer with multitraiding. We will also attach a video of the problem. 

P.S. We also encountered the crash of the game when entering the spectators on Mirage F1, but for this we will make a separate thread

Here is the track of the "empty" mission not in multiplayer. DCS works in multithreading. Additionally attached the mission file

https://youtu.be/t6D-yDkpqfI

 

AAR failures.trk 4.56 MB · 0 downloads ARR Test M F1.miz 15.67 kB · 0 downloads

This is normal behavior, there is specific range were you can air refuel and you overheated your Alternators, check the flight manual

[Bremspropeller]

Make sure you're reducing the load on the alternators, when operating in a speed- and altitude-range with bad cooling. One good way of doing so is going standby or completely *off* with the radar.

You don't want to have that thing operate around a flying gas-station anyway.

[IvanK]

22 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Make sure you're reducing the load on the alternators, when operating in a speed- and altitude-range with bad cooling. One good way of doing so is going standby or completely *off* with the radar.

You don't want to have that thing operate around a flying gas-station anyway.

Ooch Radar Off means no Antennas Stabilization you will be buying beers for the Radtechs Brem

Edited March 20, 2023 by IvanK

[RDN_Garrett]

Wow. It's cool to know that some developers are implementing such things

[Bremspropeller]

17 hours ago, IvanK said:

Ooch Radar Off means no Antennas Stabilization you will be buying beers for the Radtechs Brem

Uh-oh, you don't want to mess with the little glowy people..

I guess that means the radar must be at least on stby whenever moving the airplane under it's own power?

Edited March 20, 2023 by Bremspropeller

[peyvolt]

Guys, check the manual before writing this kind of "bugs". Some "bugs" could be bugs, but many of them they are not.

[RDN_Garrett]

8 часов назад, peyvolt сказал:

Guys, check the manual before writing this kind of "bugs". Some "bugs" could be bugs, but many of them they are not.

Why not share such a "problem"? Another user encountering such a problem later will immediately see an explanation on the forum

[jojo]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:18 AM, IvanK said:

Ooch Radar Off means no Antennas Stabilization you will be buying beers for the Radtechs Brem

 

The thing is with radar in SBY you can still detect contacts, lock and guide a Super 530F, you're just missing some guidance symbols in the HUD.

[jojo]

On 3/19/2023 at 6:05 PM, Loukuins said:

This is normal behavior, there is specific range were you can air refuel and you overheated your Alternators, check the flight manual

In don't know. I discussed about it with a former Mirage F1 CT pilot and according to him, the problem is over exaggerated.

He used to refuel from C160 Transall (which is even slower than C-130H) while operating in Africa.

By the way, you can re-arm the ALT with corresponding switches above failure panel.

@RDN_Garrett

About ALT load, also take note that POLICE light and taxi/ landing light are ON when you take the jet "hot". This may be unnecessary load depending on the circumstances.

[Loukuins]

3 hours ago, jojo said:

In don't know. I discussed about it with a former Mirage F1 CT pilot and according to him, the problem is over exaggerated.

He used to refuel from C160 Transall (which is even slower than C-130H) while operating in Africa.

By the way, you can re-arm the ALT with corresponding switches above failure panel.

@RDN_Garrett

About ALT load, also take note that POLICE light and taxi/ landing light are ON when you take the jet "hot". This may be unnecessary load depending on the circumstances.

Indicated speed should be between 280kt and 320kt, and with like 2 fuel tanks you are limited to 28500ft for example, the heavier you are the lower you need to go.

[Bremspropeller]

Taking fuel from the Trall could be well below 200kts, though.

Mix in hot, humid air (roughly ISA +20°C), this combination would fry our alternators in a couple of seconds in game.

[jojo]

17 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Taking fuel from the Trall could be well below 200kts, though.

Mix in hot, humid air (roughly ISA +20°C), this combination would fry our alternators in a couple of seconds in game.

That was my point.

From my understanding (but I could be wrong) there are some electrical fuses inside the alternator which may fry, but there is redundancy and it would not lead to complete alternator failure. And yes, Transall speed is well below comfort zone for alternators, especially in Africa.

[Bremspropeller]

33 minutes ago, jojo said:

That was my point.

From my understanding (but I could be wrong) there are some electrical fuses inside the alternator which may fry, but there is redundancy and it would not lead to complete alternator failure. And yes, Transall speed is well below comfort zone for alternators, especially in Africa.

That's also my feeling, but I'm no SME.

I'd say that if the alternators were that vulnerable to overheating in certain flight-regimes as they are right now, that'd be a highly objectionable characteristic which would not have been cleared for ops.

Edit: To be clearer on the latter part: It's probably realistic to overheat/ trip them at times, but right now, tripping them is very much guaranteed. Maybe the probability is a little to high?

Edited April 15, 2023 by Bremspropeller

[Loukuins]

21 hours ago, jojo said:

That was my point.

From my understanding (but I could be wrong) there are some electrical fuses inside the alternator which may fry, but there is redundancy and it would not lead to complete alternator failure. And yes, Transall speed is well below comfort zone for alternators, especially in Africa.

I think the issue is AoA, and as the weight increase and less density going higher it makes the alternators failing because of not enough cooling, so I won't mind having low speed at lower altitude. So Speed won't matter at lower altitude ?

[tete4Ywis]

On 3/19/2023 at 11:13 PM, Bremspropeller said:

Make sure you're reducing the load on the alternators, when operating in a speed- and altitude-range with bad cooling. One good way of doing so is going standby or completely *off* with the radar.

You don't want to have that thing operate around a flying gas-station anyway.

Is that modeled? In real life it should drastically change the overheating speed.

[fausete]

Hello, we will consult our SMEs on the accuracy of the overheating speeds. And yes, reducing the load will change the overheating behaviour in-game too.

[chichowalker]

Radar to stby is part of nose cold procedure, including all tramsmiting equipment like Tacan....

Enviado desde mi SM-G981B mediante Tapatalk

[jojo]

22 hours ago, chichowalker said:

Radar to stby is part of nose cold procedure, including all tramsmiting equipment like Tacan....

Enviado desde mi SM-G981B mediante Tapatalk
 

But currently the radar doesn't really go into stand by (you can still detect, lock and guide S530F for instance).

So is there an impact on electrical load ?

[chichowalker]

But currently the radar doesn't really go into stand by (you can still detect, lock and guide S530F for instance).
So is there an impact on electrical load ?

Don't know, Fausete will confirm that. Anyway, to be sure, you can set it off, cos it will be ready soon after commanded on again in current implementation.

Enviado desde mi 21051182G mediante Tapatalk

[fausete]

I'll take a look at the code later today. In any case, disconnecting other things like the TACAN (which is realistic) will help. Currently turning off the radar completely also has no downside and will reduce the load.

[jojo]

5 hours ago, fausete said:

I'll take a look at the code later today. In any case, disconnecting other things like the TACAN (which is realistic) will help. Currently turning off the radar completely also has no downside and will reduce the load.

OK, thanks.

[fausete]

Okay, just checked. No, only turning off the radar completely will reduce the load. Keep in mind we're working on improving the radar simulation and these problems will be ironed out later.

Edited April 19, 2023 by fausete