OpenXR motion reprojection

[Chaos_Out]

1 hour ago, Rifter said:

So if motion reprojection on a G2 performs better with SteamVR (OpenXR) than with WMR (OpenXR), there must be something wrong with the OpenXR API implementation on the WMR side.

This is something I've always thought could be happening, as I also have a terrible time with OpenXR in MSFS 2020.  Every setting and resolution lowest possible and still stuttering.

2 minutes ago, mbucchia said:

Patience folks... there should be some good news coming in the next couple of weeks.

From you or ED?  Care to be more specific?

[Burt]

That would be the man mbucchia and I’m patiently wait. Thanks in advance

[jurinko]

I guess less artifacts in motion reprojection. Great!

[GCDV31]

23 hours ago, Mk1_Trebuchet said:

ast night I changed over to Steam as the OpenXR Runtime - in the SteamVR settings, adjusted the scaling to 80%, and Turned ON Motion Smoothing.... unintentionally leaving OpenXR toolkit active.... and POW - 90Fps, clear as a bell with zero frame drop, and less than 1.5% reprojection.   Then I disabled OpenXR Toolkit.... 50-70 Fps Fluctuating and dropping frames - a total mess.  Re-enable the toolkit - Back to 90Fps....  (Not other changes or reboots, just restarted DCS)

Very interesting, I will try. When you did this test what about "OpenxR Tools for WMR" did you install it ? What is your settings in "openXR Toosl for WMR" about rendering settings and MR ?

[Mk1_Trebuchet]

Tried "Tools for WMR" but as soon as I enable MR, DCS just crashes, and refuses to run.

As a general rule, I set the DCS Pixel Density to 1.0 and the scaling (SteamVR and OpenXR Toolkit) to 80%  - Selecting either NIS or FSR in the Toolkit gives me equal results - Have Foveated rendering set to Quality/wide in the Toolkit. Otherwise, everything else is default settings.

Moving the Pixel Density up, or the scaling up doesn't have any discernable impact on the visuals, but it's enough to trigger a dip below 90fps.

 

with PD at 1 and scaling at 80% - I maintain 90 very consistently. So far the only time I caused noticeable frame issues was buzzing down the Vegas strip at Mach 1.0 and 100 feet AGL  

Just to throw this out there.  Running OpenBeta MT.  Have not tried it in "single thread", nor have I tried it in a large Multiplayer scenario. This time of year is busy, so I haven't had a lot of ME time lately.

Very interested to see what Mbucchia has foreshadowed....

(edited for clarity)

Edited April 6, 2023 by Mk1_Trebuchet

[Sile]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Mk1_Trebuchet:

Tried "Tools for WMR" but as soon as I enable MR, DCS just crashes, and refuses to run.

Currently you need to have OpenXR Toolkit (V1.3 is the latest version) installed to avoid DCS crashing with WMR Motion Reprojection ON.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Sile

[mbucchia]

2 hours ago, Sile said:

Currently you need to have OpenXR Toolkit (V1.3 is the latest version) installed to avoid DCS crashing with WMR Motion Reprojection ON.

 

This issue will be fixed in the new version of OpenXR Tools for WMR, and there won't be a need to use OpenXR Toolkit for that.

[GCDV31]

13 hours ago, mbucchia said:

This issue will be fixed in the new version of OpenXR Tools for WMR, and there won't be a need to use OpenXR Toolkit for that.

Openxr tools for wmr has an automatic update?

[mbucchia]

3 minutes ago, GCDV31 said:

Openxr tools for wmr has an automatic update?

Yes it's a Windows Store application, those get updated automatically. Unless you made some fancy policy to disable/delay updates. 

[Joch1955]

Well I guess I am the outlier here, my system (HP G2, 5800x3d, ASUS CrosshairVIII Hero mother board, 3070ti GPU, Win 11) and my settings (RES: around 2800x2800 per eye, medium/hi graphics, no MSAA, reprojection ON) work perfectly in DCS native OpenXR. I set Resolution and reprojection via the OpenXR Toolkit. No upscaling or other changes through the OpenXR toolkit. 

 

My FPS is locked at 45 all the time in MT whether in the Air or on a crowded airbase or the Supercarrier. More importantly for me, the image is smooth with no stuttering at all, not even when I move my head quickly from side to side.

 

 

[edmuss]

40 minutes ago, Joch1955 said:

Well I guess I am the outlier here

Nope, you just have it setup and running correctly for your system

[markturner1960]

1 hour ago, Joch1955 said:

 

Well I guess I am the outlier here, my system (HP G2, 5800x3d, ASUS CrosshairVIII Hero mother board, 3070ti GPU, Win 11) and my settings (RES: around 2800x2800 per eye, medium/hi graphics, no MSAA, reprojection ON) work perfectly in DCS native OpenXR. I set Resolution and reprojection via the OpenXR Toolkit. No upscaling or other changes through the OpenXR toolkit. 

 

My FPS is locked at 45 all the time in MT whether in the Air or on a crowded airbase or the Supercarrier. More importantly for me, the image is smooth with no stuttering at all, not even when I move my head quickly from side to side.

 

 

Do you the frames locked at all from within the toolkit? On my system, am using MSAA x2 and 100% resolution, with MR on. I get a very smooth 30 FPS all the time, with generally, approx 30 -50% headroom reported on the FPS counter. I wonder if I could increase to 45 FPS locked? 

 

[GCDV31]

2 hours ago, Joch1955 said:

 

Well I guess I am the outlier here, my system (HP G2, 5800x3d, ASUS CrosshairVIII Hero mother board, 3070ti GPU, Win 11) and my settings (RES: around 2800x2800 per eye, medium/hi graphics, no MSAA, reprojection ON) work perfectly in DCS native OpenXR. I set Resolution and reprojection via the OpenXR Toolkit. No upscaling or other changes through the OpenXR toolkit. 

 

My FPS is locked at 45 all the time in MT whether in the Air or on a crowded airbase or the Supercarrier. More importantly for me, the image is smooth with no stuttering at all, not even when I move my head quickly from side to side.

 

 

Hy, it's very interesting for me because I have almost the same setup (5600s, 3070ti and win11). Could you share all your setting : windows mixed reality, openXR for WMR, DCS and openxr toolkit with screenshoot. It would be very greatfull.

 

[freehand]

Never had a problem accept for the rotor wobble. 

[edmuss]

6 hours ago, freehand said:

Never had a problem accept for the rotor wobble. 

Rotor wobble will be gone soon

[Joch1955]

21 hours ago, GCDV31 said:

Hy, it's very interesting for me because I have almost the same setup (5600s, 3070ti and win11). Could you share all your setting : windows mixed reality, openXR for WMR, DCS and openxr toolkit with screenshoot. It would be very greatfull.

 

Hi, nothing special about my settings, you just have to adjust graphic settings and resolution to produce the FPS you want. The end goal is to find the sweet spot between visual quality and performance that you are comfortable with.

I used this article as a base and set the in game graphic and VR settings as recommended:

vr optimization guide

You can then tweak settings and see what the results are on your FPS, I pretty much left it as in the article except I bumped up in cockpit resolution to max since I want the instruments to be as clear as possible.

OpenXR Toolkit: only used to set eye resolution and motion reprojection, all other settings are at default. The Eye Res is the big FPS hog since there are only so many pixels your CPU/GPU can push through. My setting (2750x2750 per eye) is roughly equal to 85% res in SteamVR. I know other players also use a lower res which they bump up with upscaling, but I was not happy with the result, either visually or in terms of FPS, I would rather just set exactly the Res I want. I can also bump up the FPS to an average 80-90 in the Air if I lower the eye resolution to 2150x2150 (roughly 68% res in SteamVR), but of course visual quality suffers a bit. 

WMR G2/openXR for WMR settings: all at default. I have tried to tweak these settings, but did not like the results, best to use the recommended settings and/or let Windows decide.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Joch1955

[Glide]

Would Virtual Reality pre-rendered frames in the NCP have any impact on MR?

[Glide]

On 4/7/2023 at 1:41 PM, edmuss said:

Rotor wobble will be gone soon

Still there in this patch.

[edmuss]

2 hours ago, Glide said:

Still there in this patch.

It's nothing to do with DCS, it's the WMR runtime update that will improve things

[Moxica]

48 minutes ago, edmuss said:

It's nothing to do with DCS, it's the WMR runtime update that will improve things

What update? When? Could you please elaborate?

[Marshallman]

The more I try to get the Quest2 working.... the more I'm getting lost in VR.

I get a blurry 30 fps  but so much eye strain.....almost unflyable.

Anyone Tried through VR Desktop with good results?

[Baldrick33]

On 4/6/2023 at 12:44 AM, Rifter said:

With DCS now supporting OpenXR all of that should be history because all VR ecosystems have OpenXR implemented and can now be run native by DCS. So if motion reprojection on a G2 performs better with SteamVR (OpenXR) than with WMR (OpenXR), there must be something wrong with the OpenXR API implementation on the WMR side.

It would actually mean that the chain
DCS —> OpenXR —> SteamVR (WMR OpenXR) —> WMR motion reprojection ( = OpenXR via SteamVR as a fallback)
works better than
DCS —> OpenXR —> WMR (OpenXR) —> WMR motion reprojection (= native WMR OpenXR path)

 

I have done some more back to back testing using the Apache as the rotor effects with motion reprojection are quite extreme.

There is a significant difference using the SteamVR OpenXR runtime vs the WMR one when using motion reprojection.

Anything seem through the rotor blades using the WMR runtime sees much more wobbling and ghosting - a massive difference

The WMR OpenXR runtime needs the OpenXR Toolkit fix to run with motion reprojection, it can be disabled using the SteamVR OpenXR runtime.

There is more stuttering whilst maintaining 45 fps using the WMR runtime.

Whatever is going there is a most definite difference in user experience using motion reprojection between the two runtimes.

 

[Werewolf_fs]

hace 3 horas, Moxica dijo:

¿Qué actualización? ¿Cuando? ¿Podría por favor elaborar?

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/openxr-toolkit-upscaling-world-scale-hand-tracking-release-thread/493924/3034

[edmuss]

9 hours ago, Moxica said:

What update? When? Could you please elaborate?

It's in the works, it will come when Microsoft release the update. All being well it should improve the reprojection artifacts, especially when looking though rotor blades.

[Moxica]

1 hour ago, edmuss said:

It's in the works, it will come when Microsoft release the update. All being well it should improve the reprojection artifacts, especially when looking though rotor blades.

That sounds promising! It might be just what the doctor ordered.
Thank you for the info!.