Wing Sweep Sound Effect?

[martinistripes]

Should there be a sound effect for the wings sweeping forward/aft? I swept them aft after the engine had spoiled down (before losing power) with the canopy open after landing. They were completely silent while moving. 

I realize it's not a realistic situation, but... Attention to detail and all that. 

EDIT: Actually, thinking on this more. I'm guessing with 'hear like helmet' on, you would probably hear nothing. But as an external view observer, I presume there'd be some noise.

Edited April 7, 2023 by martinistripes

[IronMike]

3 hours ago, martinistripes said:

Should there be a sound effect for the wings sweeping forward/aft? I swept them aft after the engine had spoiled down (before losing power) with the canopy open after landing. They were completely silent while moving. 

I realize it's not a realistic situation, but... Attention to detail and all that. 

EDIT: Actually, thinking on this more. I'm guessing with 'hear like helmet' on, you would probably hear nothing. But as an external view observer, I presume there'd be some noise.

 

We generally recommend not to use "hear like helmet", because it basically cuts off some ranges of our sounds, and thus "cripples" the sounds, rather than offering a balanced sound that is engineered towards a more muffled range.

As for wing sweep I would have to check, I am not sure if we implemented sounds for it, as it would not be audible in the cockpit.

[JupiterJoe]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:36 AM, IronMike said:

We generally recommend not to use "hear like helmet", because it basically cuts off some ranges of our sounds, and thus "cripples" the sounds, rather than offering a balanced sound that is engineered towards a more muffled range.

I didn't know this.  I shall go back to 'hearing without a helmet'.

EDIT:  A huge improvement of the soundscape.  I'll never put my helmet on again.

Edited April 11, 2023 by JupiterJoe

[RustBelt]

13 hours ago, JupiterJoe said:

I'll never put my helmet on again

Said every Harley rider ever.

[JupiterJoe]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:36 AM, IronMike said:

We generally recommend not to use "hear like helmet", because it basically cuts off some ranges of our sounds, and thus "cripples" the sounds, rather than offering a balanced sound that is engineered towards a more muffled range.

I will say that ECS is a little loud without helmet though.  Perhaps that could be dialled back 15% to simulate wearing a helmet, whilst keeping all the good stuff in the mix.

Edited April 16, 2023 by JupiterJoe

[draconus]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:04 PM, JupiterJoe said:

I will say that ACS is a little loud without helmet though. 

This is incredibly loud IRL but they refuse to model it correctly bacause it'd make gamers not happy, smh.

[JupiterJoe]

Understood. I guess IRL pilots wouldn't hear much beyond the white noise of the ECS and comms?   They would feel various vibrations through their bodies though, which of course cannot currently be simulated, only artistically interpreted through sound design?  

Edited April 16, 2023 by JupiterJoe

[draconus]

It's ECS (as in Environmental Control System). They say its sound was overwhelming anything but the comms and some sounds like SW or RWR went right into your ears so it was not a problem.

Vibrations can be simulated both by VR controllers, FFB sticks and with buttkicker/jetseat so I'd love the switch sound arts to go away with some another realistic option.

[JupiterJoe]

...Sorry, ECS.  Edited accordingly.

My current solution is to adjust In-cockpit volume to a level where the ECS doesn't give me tinnitus, whilst being able to hear the full spectrum of sound effects.  Love being able to hear other aircraft on the carrier deck, even if only for atmosphere/immersion's sake.  Would you be able to feel/hear a nearby F-14A on the catapult, at full afterburner IRL? 

Edited April 16, 2023 by JupiterJoe

[martinistripes]

Personally, I would just like to hear what a real pilot/RIO hears with his helmet on (with nothing added or removed). For this reason, I'm not a fan of the switch sounds but I understand the motive behind making them the way they are. Likewise, when I'm on an external view, I'd like to hear anything that could be heard IRL. As simmers we have the luxury of a master volume slider if a realistic noise is too annoying for us.

[HavaFaza]

I'm not sure on the F-14 specifically but you'd be surprised how silent hydraulics are. Check out this video of a B-25's flaps moving from stored hydraulic accumulator pressure:

They make a hissing sound but it's just barely audible — it ends at 20 seconds or so. This is only partially related, but you obviously can't hear any of this in flight, or even on the ground idling, or with an electric external hydraulic pump motoring away. In fact, the only time you can hear hydraulics are when on the ground idling: using the brakes or the unloading valve cycling creates audible hissing. The only hydraulic-related noise that's audible in flight is lowering the landing gear at approach power, and even then it's a thump as the downlocks let go and the mass of the landing gear moves, turbulence as the gear lower, and then a sharp click when the nose gear locks as it's in the cockpit area.

The DCS P-51's flaps make a quiet hissing noise when moving them with stored accumulator pressure. Since IIRC the F-14's wing sweep actuator uses a hydraulic motor and jackscrew, it's probably louder with a different sound. Still, it's probably going to be very quiet, and only audible with engines off and with the camera in external view near the wing sweep actuators.

Edited May 17, 2023 by HavaFaza

[martinistripes]

11 hours ago, HavaFaza said:

I'm not sure on the F-14 specifically but you'd be surprised how silent hydraulics are....

 

Interesting and informative post, thanks.

[JupiterJoe]

I just heard a whine coming from an a.i. F-14 as its wings extended on the ground, just prior to take-off.  First time hearing that.  Was that always a thing?  The wing sweep on the player's F-14 doesn't make any noise that I'm aware of. 

It was after I'd landed at the end of Event 2, in Reflected Simulation's Zone 5 Campaign.  An a.i. F-14 was taxing to runway 31R, just as you arrive back at your designated parking (16).  It's wings were swept and as it held short.  It extended its wings and you could hear a whine from the system as it did so.  It was very cool.

Edited May 19, 2023 by JupiterJoe

[draconus]

On 5/19/2023 at 6:03 PM, JupiterJoe said:

I just heard a whine coming from an a.i. F-14 as its wings extended on the ground, just prior to take-off.

@IronMike So if it is implemented in AI F-14 why not in player's?

[JupiterJoe]

@IronMike

@Silhou

Bump.

[fat creason]

I'm not aware of any wing sweep sound in the code. You sure you weren't hearing something else?

[draconus]

34 minutes ago, fat creason said:

I'm not aware of any wing sweep sound in the code. You sure you weren't hearing something else?

No, it's definitely there in AI Tomcat.

[JupiterJoe]

@fat creason

22 hours ago, fat creason said:

I'm not aware of any wing sweep sound in the code. You sure you weren't hearing something else?

22 hours ago, draconus said:

No, it's definitely there in AI Tomcat.

It's an awesome sound.  First time I heard it I got goosebumps.  Be very cool to hear it from the cockpit, with the canopy open and helmet off (I'm aware NATOPS procedure means you'd have the canopy closed and helmet on before extending wings), in the event you were 'testing systems'.  With canopy closed, helmet on and ECS operating it'd probably be something you'd feel rather than hear in real life, but haptic feedback etc 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by JupiterJoe

[LanceCriminal86]

Based on how loud the engines are I have sincere doubts someone could ever hear the wing sweep servos on a running jet, from any position. The TF-30s were more than loud enough to blow out all but the best recording equipment and most crews doubled up on ear protection. I'd even doubt much if any tactile/haptic feedback based on how demo flight videos and cockpit recordings so often have the RIO visually watching and calling out that the wings were moving to the pilot to verify their position.

[draconus]

But we can move them with engines off while still having hydraulic pressure, so is there a sound or not?

[fat creason]

I don't see any sound effect in the code for wing sweep FWIW.

[draconus]

On 5/26/2023 at 8:08 PM, fat creason said:

I don't see any sound effect in the code for wing sweep FWIW.

Maybe ED added it.

Check these quick 10s tracks. Both F-14B and F-14A-135-GR AI have it. Old F-14A does not.

F-14B AI wing sweep sound.trk F-14A-135-GR AI wing sweep sound.trk