reported Ka-50 III mirror reflects flanker model

[okopanja]

I will try to reproduce this.

Consider this for now as unqualified bug report:

The TRK plus additional screenshots are below.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by okopanja

[Schlomo1933]

1. Pls Delete all mods.

2. delete “metashader2” and “fxo” folder in your user folder

[okopanja]

1. Created separate mission

2. delete mods

Still I got it once, second time it did not show up, but it appears I see lights not visible from F2 view.

Will need to test more...

[okopanja]

null

Added TRK file.

I was not imagining it.

metashaders and fxo were removed.

Shark shows the view from another aircraft in own mirrors.

Likely it always wanted to be a flanker and is missing it's R-73s.

 

server-20230410-110834.trk server-20230410-110834.trk

Edited April 10, 2023 by okopanja

[razo+r]

I watched your track and only saw a KA-50 in the mirrors.

 

But I think I know what's happening. You had your mirrors turned on in the Su-27, and then turned them off. If you turn mirrors off in DCS, they "save" the last thing they displayed. And once you change to the KA-50, it's possible that they simply display what they showed at the moment you turned them off in the Su-27. 

If you toggle the mirrors on again the should start working again and show the correct reflections.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by razo+r

[okopanja]

I will give it a try, but this is kind of a bug? (not really critical IMHO, but still).

It also makes me wonder about software architecture at play here.

[razo+r]

I wouldn't necessarily say its a bug but rather an unwanted sideeffect of an old design. But maybe @BIGNEWYcan say more to this? 

Newer mirror designs in DCS do it different, like simply blurring the image a whole lot more or make the mirrors black. 

[okopanja]

You are partially correct: mirrors must be used for this to occur. You do not need to turn them off.

Steps to reproduce:

1. switch to flanker

2. activate mirrors (without this it will not be triggered)

3. switch to BS

4. observe the flanker in mirror

Btw: I made another TRK and here I started up BS to take off. The mirrors did not update with me gently turning helicopter left.

I assume it's some optimimzation code for mirrors, that at the end makes them not update at all.

server-20230410-115105.trk

Added miz file.

Ka-50_identity_crisis.miz

Edited April 10, 2023 by okopanja

[razo+r]

Well, I am not able to help you. I watched your new track and the Su-27 never appeared in the KA-50s mirror. The mirror also updated as usual while you turned the helicopter...

[BIGNEWY]

I have tried to reproduce this but have not been able to

please repeat and add the dcs log from the session, we may see some clues. 

thank you

[okopanja]

The only "mods" I have are Tacview and SRS.

Attached it the freshest trk together with dcs.log

Additional details:

- Dell G7 7700 (laptop)

- CPU: Intel i7 10750h

- GPU: RTX 2070 Super

- RAM: 64GB

- latest Windows 10 patch, Home Edition

server-20230410-222512.trk dcs.log

[okopanja]

In addition: I just repeated same thing but in ST. The mirrors were black, no reflection at all.

 

[okopanja]

One thing to note: I bought BS2 initially, and kept it after upgrade to BS3. This means I have both installed in parallel.

If required I can attempt to reinstall DCS completely ( I have reasonably good connection), but I am unsure if I will retain BS2  (I am not talking about BS3 version 2011).

[okopanja]

I tried to make a fresh install of latest openbeta, but it pulled from existing installation majority of data.

I installed only FC3 and Ka-50, the issue repeated itself:

- in ST: mirrors are black

- in MT: I still see flanker and building in backgroun

Is there a way to force DCS_Updater do download everything from internet? (as said my connection is not a problem)

[Flappie]

Hi. I cannot reproduce your issue either, although I used your mission file. I see some errors in your log that I don't have in mine.

Try this:

1. Uninstall both BS2 and BS3.
2. Browse to "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods". Ensure there's no "Ka50" or "Ka-50_3" folder left.
3. Reinstall both modules.

[okopanja]

1. Removed BS2 and BS3

2. No leftovers

3. Installing the hotpatch...

Will report in few minutes.

 

3 hours ago, Flappie said:

I see some errors in your log that I don't have in mine.

Can you point out which ones?

[Flappie]

10 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Can you point out which ones?

I checked again: actually, there's just one.

2023-04-10 20:25:58.713 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (13792): texture 'ccSHKVAL_Bake_SRC' not found. Asked from ''

 

[okopanja]

Results of testing:

4. removed meta shaders

5. installed only BS3

Rerun prior steps to reproduce.

Result: BS3 strongly feels flanker inner self.

I am thinking about uninstalling DCS completely and reinstalling it, need to check when I can do this...

2 minutes ago, Flappie said:

I checked again: actually, there's just one.

2023-04-10 20:25:58.713 ERROR_ONCE DX11BACKEND (13792): texture 'ccSHKVAL_Bake_SRC' not found. Asked from ''

I do not find it in dcs.log anymore...

[Flappie]

Have you tried renaming your "Save Games/DCS..." folder yet?

[okopanja]

8 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Have you tried renaming your "Save Games/DCS..." folder yet?

Just did it now. I know it is hard to believe, but I still see the flanker there...

[Flappie]

7 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Just did it now. I know it is hard to believe, but I still see the flanker there...

Maybe your PC is haunted... Who you gonna call?

Seriously though, I'm at a loss here. Please open a support ticket: log into DCS website, click "Support", then "Create a new ticket". Tell them I send you, and add a link to this thread.

[okopanja]

Ok, I think I just found a culprit...

I asked the other dude to confirm himself: he used to have black mirrors as I did. And it turned out he never toggled the mirror, since it was not assigned.

I just assigned mirror control and guess what: the mirror showed up, and I could in fact switch between flanker and "normal" mirror (I will explain later quotes).

Now what I noticed was that after I cycled window to reply to you and getting back, that stopped working! I could not toggle.

I compared background of helicopter with mirrors, and there were building lights in one of them, which I could not see when using F2.

I started helicopter, and noticed I do not see the rotation in mirror. Then I toggled again and I could see blades spinning. Toggled again, back to static picture.  Back to spinning...

I briefly moved helicopter to have building in the back. And initially I though it was fine until I noticed that mirrors actually do not show the back behind helicopter, but are actually directed 60-90 degree to the left (need to find better setup to confirm this.

I think mirrors on BS3 do not work properly.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by okopanja

[okopanja]

Here is the daylight reproduction.

So improvement here was that I enabled toggling of mirrors.

The BS3 shows picture 120 degree to the right instead of directly behind.

Ka-50_identity_crisis_day.miz

Can you please check yourself what do you see?

[Flappie]

Everything works fine on my end, except for one thing: I cannot toggle mirrors off in the Ka-50.

[okopanja]

Assign hotkey. Hint: RCTRL+M.

Also: if you do not move, the on and off picture are identical if blades do not spin. My friend thought he can not toggle on/off until he performed startup.