Kneeboard Question

[Hartsblade]

You are very welcome. Glad I could help.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Hartsblade

[sthompson]

2 hours ago, Hartsblade said:

Chuck's may have some sort of copy protection.

I'm not at home, but I'm curious as to what might happen if you tried opening it in Word and tried to convert it to a Word document and re-exporting it to pdf.

If I get a chance tonight I might download kneeboard builder and take a look.

Text formatting in Chuck's guide is definitely a bit weird. This is most noticeable when you do a text search and find that search hits occur in strange places. There seems to be a lot of hidden text. To see this further, try opening the Guide in Acrobat Reader, then copy some of his text and then do a "paste special" into a blank Word document. Select "unformatted text" as the special method to see what I mean. Each word appear multiple times.

Opening the document properties for the Spitfire guide document in Acrobat Reader and then looking at document properties it appears that it was created using PDF-Xchange. Possibly if you use that software to export to PNG you will have better luck. You might also have better luck if you capture an onscreen image and paste that into a Word document (then Save As pdf) rather than trying to import Chuck's Guide itself directly. I've used that method for some of my custom kneeboards.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by sthompson

[dburne]

31 minutes ago, sthompson said:

Text formatting in Chuck's guide is definitely a bit weird. This is most noticeable when you do a text search and find that search hits occur in strange places. There seems to be a lot of hidden text. To see this further, try opening the Guide in Acrobat Reader, then copy some of his text and then do a "paste special" into a blank Word document. Select "unformatted text" as the special method to see what I mean. Each word appear multiple times.

Opening the document properties for the Spitfire guide document in Acrobat Reader and then looking at document properties it appears that it was created using PDF-Xchange. Possibly if you use that software to export to PNG you will have better luck. You might also have better luck if you capture an onscreen image and paste that into a Word document (then Save As pdf) rather than trying to import Chuck's Guide itself directly. I've used that method for some of my custom kneeboards.

 

 

 

Ok much thanks for the great info!

I now have Open Kneeboard and Kneeboard Builder both working as they should - at least for the most part and with no more garbled text. It is a shame it is no longer a simple procedure to grab a section out of Chuck's Guide and save as a PDF. Open Kneeboard I am still somewhat vague on and the instructions are shall we say rather lacking. My converted PDF word document is showing good in there - in fact the text is more readable than in the standard kneeboard. However that is only showing me the documents I converted. What about things like mission brief, maps, etc that many missions have in a campaign? How the heck does that information get put into Open Kneeboard??

If anyone knows I would greatly appreciate it! That info is already in my standard kneeboard created with Kneeboard Builder, but not in Open Kneeboard at all.

[hsth]

Hi Don,

To make kneeboard pages I use the standard Windows Snipping Tool. This works for the standard DCS manuals but I get the same problem as you have with Chuck's guides.

The only difference I could see is that DCS manuals are made with MS Word, Chuck uses MS PowerPoint (see pictures).  Maybe there has been an updated to Windows and/or MS Office that causes this?

null

[markturner1960]

Hey Don, have you tried contacting Fred, the Open kneeboard dev on the open kneeboard discortd channel? He is pretty responsive and helpful! 

[dburne]

4 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

Hey Don, have you tried contacting Fred, the Open kneeboard dev on the open kneeboard discortd channel? He is pretty responsive and helpful! 

Yes I have and he just basically points me to his directions. Perhaps it is just me but they seem very vague when I read them. I still do not even understand the stock category tabs as I do not have any idea how to put kneeboards in those tabs.  I will keep at it and hopefully get to understanding it better - no telling how many hours are going to be spent on my doing this lol.  Hours I should be flying but I gotta have a workable kneeboard in VR first.

I also have a crap load of Kneeboard Pages for the Hornet saved, have not checked them but if I have to redo all of those that is not gonna be good.

Edited April 19, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

Just checked some of the Hornet's custom kneeboard pages I have from a while ago - thankfully those appear to be ok.

[Hartsblade]

42 minutes ago, dburne said:

Just checked some of the Hornet's custom kneeboard pages I have from a while ago - thankfully those appear to be ok.

Glad to hear.  May I ask why you want to use Open Kneeboard as opposed to Kneeboard Builder?  I'm asking because I have used neither, but I'm about to start playing with a custom kneeboard and would love to have your opinion on both.

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, Hartsblade said:

I have used neither, but I'm about to start playing with a custom kneeboard and would love to have your opinion on both.

I tried Open kneeboard but found it too complex for me, so I have stuck with Kneeboard Builder for many years now as it is easy to use, allows selection of specific pages within a large pdf file, and can easily insert mission-specific kneeboards inside my mission’s MIZ files. Its only downside is that its function to relocate/resize the DCS kneeboard is not working with the current DCS.

[dburne]

43 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

I tried Open kneeboard but found it too complex for me, so I have stuck with Kneeboard Builder for many years now as it is easy to use, allows selection of specific pages within a large pdf file, and can easily insert mission-specific kneeboards inside my mission’s MIZ files. Its only downside is that its function to relocate/resize the DCS kneeboard is not working with the current DCS.

Yeah right now I think I would prefer the Kneeboard Builder as well as it has everything right there and does it for you with no software needing to be run during flights. My issue at this time is it is harder for me to see my text, can it easily be resized in any way? I have manged to resize it in the headset but that is tricky to get it to work. I would like to have one defined size as default, but it needs to be larger than what I have currently.

Just did a flight with Open Kneeboard in the Spit - it worked ok for the most part with one exception - for some reason my button one on each of my Point CTRL FCU's are toggling Open Kneeboard on and off with each button press - of either right or left FCU. Now that is not good. I do not have it assigned to those buttons in the settings menu either. And I dang sure ain't gonna go without my Point CTRL. I will post this issue over on his Discord channel and see if any ideas.

Edit: I think I see the issue in Open Kneeboard settings, mouse button one is set to toggle off and on, have cleared that out and am about to test. Pretty sure that is it.

Edited April 19, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

Ok yep I guess I had somehow managed to have mouse button 1 assigned to toggle on/off on the Open Kneeboard, cleared that out and all is well with using Point CTRL now.

Getting there...

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

I tried Open kneeboard but found it too complex for me, so I have stuck with Kneeboard Builder for many years now as it is easy to use, allows selection of specific pages within a large pdf file, and can easily insert mission-specific kneeboards inside my mission’s MIZ files. Its only downside is that its function to relocate/resize the DCS kneeboard is not working with the current DCS.

 

So are you saying there is not way to change the default kneeboard size/display in Kneeboard Builder currently? Can't create a profile with custom size like we used to? If I am stuck with default size in VR I won't be able to use Kneeboard Builder as I can't read the small and faint text.

I could though perhaps see myself using a combination of both Kneeboard Builder for standard kneeboard and Open Kneeboard for custom ones.

Edited April 19, 2023 by dburne

[Rudel_chw]

29 minutes ago, dburne said:

So are you saying there is not way to change the default kneeboard size/display in Kneeboard Builder currently?

 

There is no way that I know of ... tough there might be one that I haven't heard of.

 

29 minutes ago, dburne said:

Can't create a profile with custom size like we used to?

 

No, this functionality of KB is not working since the update that ED did to the DCS kneeboard to allow for user adjustment of its size and position:

 

 

29 minutes ago, dburne said:

If I am stuck with default size in VR I won't be able to use Kneeboard Builder as I can't read the small and faint text.

 

Maybe, our way of using the kneeboard differs .. I write my own kneeboards using MS Word, this way I have control over the page size and font size, while you seem to be copying existing documents and so have little control over text size .. I don't see a good solution for your use case, sorry.

 

Eduardo

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

There is no way that I know of ... tough there might be one that I haven't heard of.

 

 

No, this functionality of KB is not working since the update that ED did to the DCS kneeboard to allow for user adjustment of its size and position:

 

 

 

Maybe, our way of using the kneeboard differs .. I write my own kneeboards using MS Word, this way I have control over the page size and font size, while you seem to be copying existing documents and so have little control over text size .. I don't see a good solution for your use case, sorry.

 

Eduardo

 

Ok thanks, I will see what I can do. Maybe open it in Word and edit the text size and save back to PDF. I probably can get used to using Open Kneeboard if I stick with it a while but I sure like the simplicity of Kneeboard Builder. Plus I have a bunch of kneeboards already created with it.

[Rudel_chw]

44 minutes ago, dburne said:

but I sure like the simplicity of Kneeboard Builder

 

Agree, in particular I love the ability of KB of inserting a Kneeboard inside a MIZ file, ideal for placing the Mission Briefing on the aircraft's Kneeboard.

 

 

[dburne]

Ok so I am throwin in the towel on this Open Kneeboard. I guess my simple mind just can not get a handle on it - way to convoluted for me. I am tired of starting a mission with that kneeboard not working for me. Seems some of the buttons I assign works some of the time, some times they do not. Also my custom size of the kneeboard seems to change on a whim. Too much grief to be worth my while, I prefer to fly.

So going back to Kneeboard Builder, will try just exporting some of my saved kneeboards to word , edit the text to be more legible and import it back in. Should not be too bad I hope.

Edited April 20, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

One thing I have found with Kneeboard Builder , when in VR in the cockpit with the Kneeboard up, I can manipulate the size of the kneeboard with the mouse (Point CTRL in this case) to make it more legible by being a little larger. It is not persistant between missions, but does at least keep that custom size all during the mission even toggling the kneeboard on and off. That certainly helps in my case. I did also check some of my older kneeboards I had done in Kneeboard Builder for the Hornet and they all still appear fine and readable. So only going to be a small amount I will need to modify a little to get them more legible, some of the most recent ones I did using Chuck's Guides.

Open Kneeboard has been uninstalled, thank goodness.

Edited April 21, 2023 by dburne

[actually_fred]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:51 PM, dburne said:

Open Kneeboard has been uninstalled, thank goodness.

I'm sorry that something I made in my spare time and gave away for free didn't work out for you, but this tone is unnecessary, inappropriate, and harmful to a community that heavily depends on people giving away their free time to make things better.

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, actually_fred said:

I'm sorry that something I made in my spare time and gave away for free didn't work out for you, but this tone is unnecessary, inappropriate, and harmful to a community that heavily depends on people giving away their free time to make things better.

 

No need to be sorry and definitely no need to take it personally. I gave it a good try over several days and found it was just not for me and am happier with Kneeboard Builder for now - even though it is no longer getting support by the author I don't think. May be my dumb butt however I just could not get my arms wrapped completely around it. I did not think I was that negative towards it and I do apologize how it came across to you. Your efforts along with others for the community are always very much appreciated!

[actually_fred]

np, thanks  I'll easily admit that my documentation is very precise, specific, and... not the most approachable/readable, but it's the best I can do; approachable documentation is not one of my strongest skills. I'll be asking for community help with that in the next major release.

The real fix is probably videos, but they take a lot of time, and need re-making extremely frequently - outdated videos are worse than no videos. I'm not able to spare the time for that at the moment

[skypickle]

I still wish there was a way to customize kneeboard size and position withing dcs. The click and drag bit gets to be intrusive. I resorted to creating a mod that positions the kneeboard where I want it but it breaks IC.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, skypickle said:

I still wish there was a way to customize kneeboard size and position withing dcs.

 

Already DCS allows us to move and resize the KB, what's needed is for DCS to remember this customization from one session to the next ... separately for each aircraft if possible 

 

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Already DCS allows us to move and resize the KB, what's needed is for DCS to remember this customization from one session to the next ... separately for each aircraft if possible 

 

Yes this.

[MAXsenna]

 
Already DCS allows us to move and resize the KB, what's needed is for DCS to remember this customization from one session to the next ... separately for each aircraft if possible 
 

I absolutely agree!
But call me stupid and enlighten me Eduardo. When they introduced the possibility of resizing/moving it. Wasn't it supposed the remember the settings per module? Or am I completely remembering that incorrectly?

@dburne
I haven't tested this, but I'm sure one can make a VoiceAttack "macro" that can easily move and resize the kneeboard too your preference, (per module, if used with VAICOM).
Just ask if if you need some hints.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

I absolutely agree!
But call me stupid and enlighten me Eduardo. When they introduced the possibility of resizing/moving it. Wasn't it supposed the remember the settings per module? Or am I completely remembering that incorrectly?

 

I don’t remember the exact moment when they introduced  the resizable & moveable kneeboard, but it never has remembered these settings, in spite that it doesn’t seem a complex feature.

Another wish item related, would be pre-generated kneeboard pins, one for each kneeboard source: module, map image, map kneeboard, saved games kneeboard, and mission file kneeboard.