Do whatever is happening to server tracks to singleplayer tracks.

[Gunfreak]

So tracks breaks within minutes/seconds on singleplayer. But if you play on an online server the multiplayer tracks works. For hours and hours.

Can't ED do whatever is working on server tracks to singleplayer tracks? 

 

[SharpeXB]

Multiplayer tracks break too. 

[Gunfreak]

13 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Multiplayer tracks break too. 

I've gone through 4 hours of multiplayer track the last two days and it worked perfectly well the entire time. With hundreds of units. While in singleplayer most of the time a 1 v 1 dogfight track breaks with in a few minutes at most.

[SharpeXB]

Just now, Gunfreak said:

I've gone through 4 hours of multiplayer track the last two days and it worked perfectly well the entire time. With hundreds of units. While in singleplayer most of the time a 1 v 1 dogfight track breaks with in a few minutes at most.

I see both types break. You might luck out and some don’t. I haven’t heard anything about any type of track being fixed lately. As far as I know this has been a defective feature for the better part of a decade. 

[Daemoc]

I am going to second this request.

I am sure it's at the very end of a priority list, but I can't imagine it would take that much work to implement the "multiplayer" track recording option for single player. I may be wrong in that assumption, but please consider it.

Thanks.

[SharpeXB]

28 minutes ago, Daemoc said:

I am going to second this request.

I am sure it's at the very end of a priority list, but I can't imagine it would take that much work to implement the "multiplayer" track recording option for single player. I may be wrong in that assumption, but please consider it.

Thanks.

As far as I know the feature is the same for both MP and SP and is equally broken for both. And apparently it’s a lot of work to fix. Yeah otherwise it would be great if it actually worked. 

[Tea-Pig]

I'll add my my voice to requesting the track record/replay system gets fixed. Surely this is a fundamental core part of any flight sim.

[Dangerzone]

On 4/30/2023 at 7:31 AM, Gunfreak said:

So tracks breaks within minutes/seconds on singleplayer. But if you play on an online server the multiplayer tracks works. For hours and hours.

Can't ED do whatever is working on server tracks to singleplayer tracks? 

 

This isn't a bad idea, and you may be onto something. From my understanding, the single player track records all users inputs and 'replays' those inputs when you play the track back. The dedicated server can't do this (as it doesn't have this particular data from all the users) so it instead is recording positions, direction, velocity, etc of all units. As a result, the server method isn't relying on replicating exactly the user inputs but a more robust option of x/y/z/speed/direction/etc of the aircraft.

However, in saying this, I believe ED would still need single player track to still record the way it does for diagnostic purposes (the original intent of the track if I'm not mistaken). One possible solution is to have both recorded in the track file, along with the option to choose how to replay the track (either 'diagnostic' which replicates the inputs, or 'replay' which uses the "server" recording data would allow us to have cake and eat it too). 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Dangerzone

[Daemoc]

50 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

This isn't a bad idea, and you may be onto something. From my understanding, the single player track records all users inputs and 'replays' those inputs when you play the track back. The dedicated server can't do this (as it doesn't have this data from all the users) so it instead is recording positions, direction, velocity, etc of all units. As a result, the server method isn't relying on replicating exactly the user inputs but a more robust option of x/y/z/speed/direction/etc of the aircraft.

However, in saying this, I believe ED would still need single player track to still record the way it does for diagnostic purposes (the original intent of the track if I'm not mistaken). One possible solution is to have both recorded in the track file, along with the option to choose how to replay the track (either 'diagnostic' which replicates the inputs, or 'replay' which uses the "server" recording data would allow us to have cake and eat it too). 

This is my understanding as well.

I am not sure what the performance impact would be recording both Player Input Data and Multiplayer Unit Data at the same time, if any, but even if we were just left with the option to choose what we record I would be happy.

[Dangerzone]

13 minutes ago, Daemoc said:

This is my understanding as well.

I am not sure what the performance impact would be recording both Player Input Data and Multiplayer Unit Data at the same time, if any, but even if we were just left with the option to choose what we record I would be happy.

My guess is not much. When you're recording client track files while on a multiplayer server, it's doing this for all the other players/aircraft on the server as it is. So, recording additional data for your own would be the same as recording additional data for another player that's on there. Obviously I can't say that with 100% certainty, I'm not saavy to the source code of DCS, but I'm taking an educated guess. 

There is a workaround for this at the moment. It's a bit clumsy, but it should work: If you start a dedicated server (even on your own computer) and use it to host the mission, and then launch a second instance of DCS to play the mission, you can use the track file that's recorded from the dedicated server to the get recording your looking for. While it's not an ideal solution - it can be used as a workaround in a pinch. (This won't work though if you're wanting to record and replay stuff back from other public servers online - it only works if you are able to host the mission yourself).

[Ironhand]

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

…If you start a dedicated server (even on your own computer) and use it to host the mission, and then launch a second instance of DCS to play the mission…

Ok. I’ll bite. How do you launch two instances of DCS on the same computer at the same time? The times I’ve launched a second instance by accident, I’ve gotten an error message.

[Dangerzone]

10 hours ago, Ironhand said:

Ok. I’ll bite. How do you launch two instances of DCS on the same computer at the same time? The times I’ve launched a second instance by accident, I’ve gotten an error message.

That's probably because you've launched a second instance of the same installation/program. I'm talking about launching a dedicated server install (will be a separate directory, and separate configuration) to the game copy that you're talking about. It doesn't launch the GUI interface. It's not something that I've done (or done in a while), but I do recall seeing it discussed in the past. Just keep in mind, I'm talking about a dedicated server install, and not using another normal DCS install for the second instance.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dangerzone

[Ironhand]

14 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

That's probably because you've launched a second instance of the same installation/program. I'm talking about launching a dedicated server install (will be a separate directory, and separate configuration) to the game copy that you're talking about. It doesn't launch the GUI interface. It's not something that I've done (or done in a while), but I do recall seeing it discussed in the past. Just keep in mind, I'm talking about a dedicated server install, and not using another normal DCS install for the second instance.

 

Ahhh. That would be the difference. Thanks.

[Nealius]

Server tracks never break. The only issues they have are AI making different decisions and going a different direction/doing a different thing than they did live. The reason they don't break is because user inputs aren't recorded then played back like in single player tracks, as there is no cockpit access in server tracks. 

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Nealius said:

Server tracks never break. The only issues they have are AI making different decisions and going a different direction/doing a different thing than they did live. The reason they don't break is because user inputs aren't recorded then played back like in single player tracks, as there is no cockpit access in server tracks. 

Yes those break too. And also in regard to player action ie your plane will fly into the side of a hill or something. 

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Yes those break too. And also in regard to player action ie your plane will fly into the side of a hill or something. 

Yeah I've come to the conclusion that dedicated server tracks do break. 

But it's very aircraft dependent.

F16 single player tracks can break after a minute, or 10 minutes but do break.

On dedicated server tracks the F16 tracks don't seem to break at all. I've now tested several 90 minute long tracks and so far none have broken.

However even a simple 4 v 4 ww2 dedicated server track usually breaks with a couple of minutes. 

F14 singleplayer tracks breaks in seconds. You might get 5 or 10 minutes with a dedicated server track.

[Nealius]

I get 90-120 minute dedicated server replay tracks that do not break, with every module, so no idea what you guys are on about.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

I get 90-120 minute dedicated server replay tracks that do not break, with every module, so no idea what you guys are on about.

What type of mission? If they’re just free flights etc those probably have no trouble. Anything more complex, forget it. ED themselves will acknowledge that this feature is broken so if you aren’t seeing this, it’s just luck. 

[Nealius]

"Anything more complex" = air AI, which as I said earlier the AI make different decisions during the replay track. This is not the track "breaking," this is simply the AI's decision not being recorded at all into the track file, so while the client movements are recorded the AI is reacting in real-time during the replay. Ground AI doesn't matter so much. Tracks of marathon flights of Apache Hunting Ground--quite a complex mission--don't break, for example.

Also I'm pretty sure your argument has been empirically disproven via data in other threads multiple times yet you still refuse to admit you're wrong.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Nealius

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

"Anything more complex" = air AI, which as I said earlier the AI make different decisions during the replay track. This is not the track "breaking," this is simply the AI's decision not being recorded at all into the track file, so while the client movements are recorded the AI is reacting in real-time during the replay. Ground AI doesn't matter so much. Tracks of marathon flights of Apache Hunting Ground--quite a complex mission--don't break, for example.

Also I'm pretty sure your argument has been empirically disproven via data in other threads multiple times yet you still refuse to admit you're wrong.

 

And yet a 4 vs 4 ww2 dogfight, flown on a dedicated server  within about 10 minutes or sooner, my plane will crash into the ground. Just like a singleplayer track only takes a little longer.

So it's very dependent on which planes and assets are in the mission.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

"Anything more complex" = air AI, which as I said earlier the AI make different decisions during the replay track. This is not the track "breaking," this is simply the AI's decision not being recorded at all into the track file, so while the client movements are recorded the AI is reacting in real-time during the replay. Ground AI doesn't matter so much. Tracks of marathon flights of Apache Hunting Ground--quite a complex mission--don't break, for example.

Also I'm pretty sure your argument has been empirically disproven via data in other threads multiple times yet you still refuse to admit you're wrong.

 

It’s been widely recognized for years and acknowledged by ED themselves that this feature is broken, both for SP and MP. I’m not wrong in pointing the out. Tracks only work best for very simple short things but in my experience even those get broken too. 

[MAXsenna]

5 hours ago, Nealius said:

This is not the track "breaking," this is simply the AI's decision not being recorded at all into the track file, so while the client movements are recorded the AI is reacting in real-time during the replay.

This is actually interesting. I understand why in SP, they opted for a solution, debugging wise, to record what the user/client actually did, and let the AI respond to whatever. But why did they opt to record what happen with a user/client and not the AI for MP tracks? If they do have a way of recording what actually happen with a player, it shouldn't be to hard to do that for the AI as well. My guess would simply be that the hardware/software for the "recording" was just not up to it. My hope now will be that in 3.0 with MT we can see/choose a change. Most users wants as "content creators" to have a perfect recording for screenshots/vids whatever, while ED needs tracks for debugging. 

[SharpeXB]

MP tracks will break in ways which have nothing to do with AI actions i.e. your plane will fly straight into the ground. You own actions aren’t recorded correctly all the time in SP either. So I don’t think the above theory can be correct. The problem isn’t solely caused by the AI. 

[Dangerzone]

On 9/30/2023 at 1:36 AM, Gunfreak said:

And yet a 4 vs 4 ww2 dogfight, flown on a dedicated server  within about 10 minutes or sooner, my plane will crash into the ground. Just like a singleplayer track only takes a little longer.

So it's very dependent on which planes and assets are in the mission.

Are you replaying the track file from your own DCS choosing 'Save Track' after flying, or are you obtaining the saved track file from the dedicated server's save directory?  (Are you self-hosting the dedicated server)?

[Gunfreak]

1 minute ago, Dangerzone said:

Are you replaying the track file from your own DCS choosing 'Save Track' after flying, or are you obtaining the saved track file from the dedicated server's save directory?  (Are you self-hosting the dedicated server)?

Both, the track from my own DCS actually breaks slower than the one from the dedicated server folder.

Same is true for F14 tracks. The track found in the dedicated server folder breaks faster than the one found in my main dcs track folder.

I make videos, so I've tried all variables and permutations.

 

And generally ww2 tracks used to work better than jet tracks, the something ED did like 6 months or so ago changed that.