KH-25ML Devil-Dart

[159th_Viper]

Bug, Exploit or merely a case of not being able to....

 

 

........properly? :music_whistling:

 

 

Engagement from approx 1000m AGL at targets approx 10km distant.

 

Weapon of choice: KH-25ML

 

Shkval ground-stabilized, ordinance selected and LA parameters satisfied by manual override. Missiles launched WITHOUT toggling the designator mode switch.

 

Ordinance launched with two confirmed Kills.

[Tbag]

No idea but sice we are at it: How do you satisfy LA parameters by manual override?

[bumfire]

Same happens to me Viper, I can launch the KH25ml and it tracks and hits targets without toggling the switch from laser rangefinder mode to laser desingnator mode, Basically I never ever need to touch that switch as everything works normally with the switch in its default position.

 

The funny thing is, just today I was reading the manual and wondering will I make a thread regarding the problem, I decided I will wait, and here I am hours later reading the same type of thread from someone else from my city :|

 

spooky.

[Lobo_63]

Wot happened to that cat? LOL

[ZEbbEDY]

'mon the Scots

[CAT_101st]

Ok here is how it is dun. at 10+K you need a second KA-50 to buddy lase with. at 8+k you need to put it in manual mode for launch.

 

1. Lock target
   
2. switch laser to designate mode (The switch under the HSI)
   
3. select the KH-25ML
   
4. hit the lock target agen (the laser is now firing for 60 second 30 second cool down time) you will see in the hud that the Kh-25 locks onto the laser.
   
5. Fire weapon
   
6. when the counter hits 30 seconds you buddy fires his laser and the Kh-25ml will track that one the rest of the way in to the target.
   
7. BOOM :music_whistling:
   

Edited February 17, 2009 by CAT_101st

[bumfire]

So the designate mode is only for buddy lasing ?

 

And if you are not buddy lasing the kh25 can still fire and hit targets in the rangefinder ( default ) mode ? as thats the way it works with me as I havent tried buddy lasing yet. I thought that in order to fire the kh25 you *had* to toggle to laser designate mode which isnt the case here, although as I said I have not fired from greater than say 8-9km's and never tried it with a buddy lasing for me.

[LIONPRIDE]

Ok here is how it is dun. at 10+K you need a second KA-50 to buddy lase with. at 8+k you need to put it in manual mode for launch.

 

1. Lock target
   
2. switch laser to designate mode (The switch under the HSI)
   
3. select the KH-25ML
   
4. hit the lock target agen (the laser is now firing for 60 second 30 second cool down time) you will see in the hud that the Kh-25 locks onto the laser.
   
5. Fire weapon
   
6. when the counter hits 30 seconds you buddy fires his laser and the Kh-25ml will track that one the rest of the way in to the target.
   
7. BOOM :music_whistling:
   

 

 

Wow ... didn't know that the weapons where modeled that in depth. Thank You for sharing.

 

 

.

[Feuerfalke]

Wouldn't buddy-lase indicate there is a buddy flying with you? Why does it work if you're flying solo, too?

 

@Viper:

According to the track you were still in designate-mode. You merely switched the cover. (AFAIK the switchs function is flipped ingame)

 

 

So basically you just fired without having a lock? That works with vickies as well and it is a good method to kill enemy helos without giving them a warning (just am to the side, then move the piper on the helo before impact -> little to no warning)

Edited February 17, 2009 by Feuerfalke

[Frederf]

I'm guessing the reason that the KH-25 isn't really in the game properly is that they didn't finish modeling it.

 

I didn't know you could fire a helo in non-tracking or non-ground stabilized mode, good tip.

[CAT_101st]

Wouldn't buddy-lase indicate there is a buddy flying with you? Why does it work if you're flying solo, too?

 

You can fire it by your self at 8K or closer. beyond that you are risking a miss. Due to the fact that the laser shuts off after a certan time. Once that laser is off the KH 25ml tracks strate and may drift a little. so if you are shooting at a moving ship it will be a %95 sure miss. Some of my guys have done alot of testing on max rang of the KH-25ml and we have hit targets as fare out as 15k. As long as the target is lased and the missle has enough umph behind it to reach the target it will hit.

[CAT_101st]

I'm guessing the reason that the KH-25 isn't really in the game properly is that they didn't finish modeling it.

 

It would not be in the SIM if it was not modeled properly.

[DeltoBrava]

I don't know why you would need to have a buddy? All you need to do is set it on manual mode, lock the target with your laser, and you're all set to make a 15km shot.

 

I've made plenty of 15km shots with the 25-ml and I believe it has a 20+ km range, but the map I made these shots on had fog and I'm not sure if that's what was making my laser lock on at exactly 15km and not sooner. I never did try to fire it beyond 15km, I would just wait for the laser to lock because I wasn't about to manually hold the gate on a target for 5km straight.

 

On auto mode I find that the 25-ml fires no sooner than 7.5km while the vihk fires at a further distance than that, around 8.0 - 8.5km.

 

I always shoot manual mode because auto mode just handicaps your range.

[Frederf]

I don't know why you would need to have a buddy? All you need to do is set it on manual mode, lock the target with your laser, and you're all set to make a 15km shot.

 

In real life you couldn't designate for the entire time of flight if the time of flight exceeded the maximum endurance of a laser cycle. 13 second ToF, 8 second laser duration. The laser shuts off before the missile reaches the target. This limitation doesn't seem to be modeled in DCS:BS?

 

It would not be in the SIM if it was not modeled properly.

 

The Kh-25 isn't really in the sim properly is it? You have to hax some text files or whatnot to get it to work. ED probably half-implemented it with the intention of finishing the modeling later, plenty of sim designers do this.

[sobek]

The Kh-25 isn't really in the sim properly is it? You have to hax some text files or whatnot to get it to work. ED probably half-implemented it with the intention of finishing the modeling later, plenty of sim designers do this.

 

You do not have to manipulate text files, just create a custom loadout screen that contains the missile, which can be done via the editor. It definately is in the game.

[Mugatu]

What am I doing wrong, the thing always overshoots. Toggle the des/range switch to standby (weird labels btw left position) lock the target, hitfire, wait a bit and boom kill a few goffers!!

[bumfire]

Why do people find the need to toggle the switch to standby ? as the missile works in the normal mode and their is no changce from normal to standby as the missile will always hit, granted as I said earlier I have not done uber long shots and never buddy lased but for me when I fire the karen I dont need to do anything different from firing a vihkr and it always hits its targets, yesterday I was hitting targets 11km+ away after doing some testing and I really dont think the toggle switch does anything differently, well if it does, it sure doesnt work for me thats for sure, I would post a track but I have tweaked my game and the tweaks I have done have been proven to mess up tracks so ED says, so it would be pointless of me posting one if it wont work for other people.

[Rhino4]

The laser shuts off before the missile reaches the target. This limitation doesn't seem to be modeled in DCS:BS?

Yes it is. ;) The way they get it to go further than that is with teams where one lases for the first half of the flight until his laser shuts off automatically and then the other lases for the rest. I still think it's completely unrealistic (not to mention unnecessary) but it is a neat trick.:thumbup:

[CAT_101st]

Bumfire

the missle will keep tracking the last spot it saw a laser. So hitting a non moving target is easy out to 11K but ry hitting a moving target at 11K it just wont happen. The laser is only on long enough for a 9K flight.

 

Rhino4

Why would it be un realistic. If the real KA-50 can do the same thing I would most defanitly us this to my advantage when attacking a large target like a ship. The real cool thing is that if you have a flight of 4 KA-50s all can fire 1 at the same laser from difernt angels. This improves the chance of a kill. If you wait to get in range of a FF or DD for a single KA-50 lits call it 9-10K you are in range of its surface to air defince missels and most likly will be shot down. befor you get your shot off. SO do a 15K stand off attack with 2 or more KA-50s and you wont have any problems. Un less that ship is a perry class. its SA missle defince is 20K.

[159th_Viper]

Yes it is. ;) The way they get it to go further than that is with teams where one lases for the first half of the flight until his laser shuts off automatically and then the other lases for the rest. I still think it's completely unrealistic (not to mention unnecessary) but it is a neat trick.:thumbup:

 

Cannot be modelled ;)

 

Place the Weapon Control Switch in manual mode and you're guaranteed a Hit on Target from 14km unaided, ie No Buddy-Lasing.

 

 

What am I doing wrong, the thing always overshoots. Toggle the des/range switch to standby (weird labels btw left position) lock the target, hitfire, wait a bit and boom kill a few goffers!!

 

Do not lock the target. Place the Target marker just to the front of the intended target as per the track I posted in the first post and it'll hit.

[Rhino4]

Rhino4

Why would it be un realistic. If the real KA-50 can do the same thing I would most defanitly us this to my advantage...

 

Does the KA-50 use this operationally in RL (honestly I really don't know if it does)? Because if it doesn't then this is just another "why doesn't the ka-50 have a2a capabilities in BS?" discussion...If you were a russian military commander, would you choose the ka-50 -out of all the options you have- to go take out a ship? Or would you just let the ka-50 stick to what it's good at and pick something built for that purpose?

[sobek]

Does the KA-50 use this operationally in RL (honestly I really don't know if it does)? Because if it doesn't then this is just another "why doesn't the ka-50 have a2a capabilities in BS?" discussion...If you were a russian military commander, would you choose the ka-50 -out of all the options you have- to go take out a ship? Or would you just let the ka-50 stick to what it's good at and pick something built for that purpose?

 

I think using it is deemed too dangerous (that's what GGT told us), apart from the missile being extremely heavy and therefore firing one puts the shark out of balance big time.

Edited February 18, 2009 by sobek

[Mugatu]

Isn't the KA-50's lazer a low power jobby, in which case it probably would struggle to designate anything at 8Km for semi active missiles.

[Frederf]

I still don't understand why DCS:BS does something that you cannot in reality and yet we say its modeled properly? Someone explain please:

 

Real: Ka-50 cannot lase more than 8 seconds. Missile needs continuous lasing. Target is more than 8 seconds away. Single Ka-50 cannot guide missile to target.

 

DCS: Ka-50 cannot lase more than 8 seconds. Missile needs continous lasing. Target is more than 8 seconds away. Single Ka-50 can guide missile to target.

 

CONFUSION!?!?!

[CAT_101st]

I still don't understand why DCS:BS does something that you cannot in reality and yet we say its modeled properly? Someone explain please:

 

Real: Ka-50 cannot lase more than 8 seconds. Missile needs continuous lasing. Target is more than 8 seconds away. Single Ka-50 cannot guide missile to target.

 

DCS: Ka-50 cannot lase more than 8 seconds. Missile needs continous lasing. Target is more than 8 seconds away. Single Ka-50 can guide missile to target.

 

CONFUSION!?!?!

 

 

 

 

Ok for 1 id the real KA-50 did not have the capabilty itwould not be in the SIM.

 

Chapter 2 page 19

2-13:Laser designator panel

 

1.The smal laser designator reset button is used to cease laser illumination, if it has not already timed out after 20 sec.

 

2. the laser range finder / laser designator mode toggle switch is located directly beloe the HSI and is set to the laser range finder position by default. [LShift+O] When set to the laser designator position, the laser can be used to designate targets for weapons such as the Kh-25ML, Kh-29L or laser bombs. The Ka-50 can search for a target and illuminate it for 20 seconds by a second press of the ENTER key. This switch does not affect "Vikhr" employment.

 

I hope this will help you unders stand how it works and that it is real.

 

Rhino4

 

I would most defintly let some other aircraft do the job. But my point is that the Ka-50 is cappable of doing such a attack nuthing more. Just another tactek that the military may chose to use.