Looking for flight stick/base combo recommendations...

[thercman]

Hey Guys!

So after looking over the many options of bases out there Virpil seems to be the best option at this price point. At least from what I can tell anyway. Which brings me to the question. Which is the best base for DCS World? The recently updated WarBRD-D or the Mongoos T-50CM3? What I mean is, which one provides the most realistic feel? Along with the base, what is the recommended flight stick of choice to go with it? At first, I wanted replica such as the TM F/A 18 stick on the CM3 but if the WarBRD-D feels better then maybe a plastic grip?

I'm just starting out in flight sims so I hope this isn't to redundant for you guys. I'm just looking for advice from people that have had hands on with them...  Thanks!    

[speed-of-heat]

if you are just starting out; I'm not sure I would recommend a big outlay on hardware, unless you know you are going to love it as a hobby, its a big cash outlay and while it will substantially improve your experience it can be a bit daunting in the current market cash wise.

But, I have the Mongoose T-50CM2 base and it is excellent, and the improvements in the CM3 look solid. for stick a lot depends again on what you want to do, the FA/18 stick is good for it, the Harrier and the F15E and a number of other aircraft,  my own view is if you know you are only going to be regularly flying a few aircraft then that's a good stick to go with,  my own choice was the Virpil Alpha, its a generic stick that has lots of buttons that you can map to pretty much any aircraft and still have enough left over for "quality of life" controls.  

If i was buying a stick now, i would likely also look at the winwing F16EX as that also has a good array of buttons and the F16 stick is what I grew up on in flightsims, but you can't mate that stick to the Virpil base, its mostly an aesthetic choicem as it also has multiple button combinations and depress combinations etc...

[dburne]

I run the Virpil CM3 gimbal with their Alpha Prime metal grip. Love the combination. The CM3 bases are designed more for mounting to desk using extensions. I use mine with 200mm extension.

[Eaglewings]

Virpil Cm3 Throttle is great. Lots of buttons and switches. The winwing F-16EX is what I plan to get as an upgrade from my present thrustmaster flightstick because like someone already said, if you plan to have heli and modern fixed wing modules, a hotas with plenty of buttons, switches and rotary dials would serve you well.

Ryzen 5 5600: RTX 3070: 32g Ram: Virpil Cm3 Throttle :Thrustmaster warthog flight stick: Thrustmaster TFRP rudder:Samsung Odyssey plus Vr headset :

[thercman]

Hey guys! Thanks for the replies. 

While the Virpil controls are a bit pricey I am more than willing to spend the extra cash up front for better quality. Buy once cry once as they say. (Although, as mentioned the prices are probably artificially high right now) With that said, Initially I was drawn to Winwing products for the aesthetics and ability to expand into a full cockpit build down the road if I so choose. (At this point I have found other DIY options) At first glance the quality seemed pretty good and the price point is also on par with what I was imagining spending. But once I did some digging some red flags started to pop up. Some have had issues with plastic bits breaking such as the finger lifts on the throttle or the red knob on the PTO panel breaking. These small things didn't bother me much because I can always go into Fusion 360, model a replacement part, and print one out. But then came the software issues I've been reading about to include possible malicious intent. While this last part is just hearsay, it still raises concerns. Lastly, is the lack of customer service. Buy it and you own it. If it breaks you fix it. At least this is what I am gathering from the internet anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong... I also briefly looked into VKB since I read good things about them. However, their entire Gunfighter MK iii line is sold out and from what I understand this has been an issue for a while. From what I can tell they seem to be catering more towards the entry level crowd. This also seems to the case with Thrustmaster. Their base hasn't been updated in years and people seem to be voicing their displeasure in that. Although, Flight Sim Expo 2023 is coming up so maybe they'll update their product line with something that competes in the prosumer category. 

So that long explanation is what has brought me to Virpil. From what I can tell they have created nicely machined internal parts on their bases that scream quality. Combine that with a robust piece of software that can map almost everything you can think of (At least from my perspective anyway.) and you have a quality component. I have also contacted the company inquiring about the status of their inventory and the promptly replied explaining about their backordering system. So thumbs up so far regarding customer service. 

Okay, so based on all my research it's going to be the CM3 with the TM F/A 18C grip, VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle, and the VPC ACE Flight Pedals. I'll be mounting the hardware with Monstertech products. 

Any recommendations or corrections?    

Edited June 8, 2023 by thercman

[Scott-S6]

The CM3 really should be used with at least a 10cm extension and a suitably low mount (I'd suggest that the virpil desk mount is better then the monstertech in this case).

Edited June 8, 2023 by Scott-S6

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, thercman said:

Buy it and you own it. If it breaks you fix it. At least this is what I am gathering from the internet anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

I've had good experiences with support. They're not native English speakers, so you need to make sure they understand what you're saying, so talking to them can be a bit annoying, but if they can fix it, they will. One problem that's unfortunately hard to bypass is shipping to/from China, which is expensive even for small items. From my experience, they'll help you if they can, but if you need to send something to them, or even have them send you replacement parts, prepare to pay the shipping company (and maybe your own government along the way) through the nose. I suppose it's not really on them, just the fact they are in China and you are not.

Didn't have problems with plastics breaking so far, and SimAppPro is a right piece of crap, but you don't really need to use it for anything besides initial setup (it's required for backlight sync and the stick shaker in the F16EX, but that's it). All in all, I'm happy with it, stick, throttle and collective (the latter bought 2nd hand).

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Scott-S6 said:

The CM3 really should be used with at least a 10cm extension and a suitably low mount (I'd suggest that the virpil desk mount is better then the monstertech in this case).

 

Monster Tech also has extended mounts for this. However I have both, have a Monster Tech extended mount with a VKB stick and 200 mm extension, and now my newer Virpil CM3 stick with 200mm extension mounted on a Virpil Desk Mount. Both desk mounts are quite good with the Virpil being somewhat cheaper I think and likely more readily available. 

[VpR81]

I have both, the T50CM2 base as well as the WarBRD base and can also recommend both. However, i cannot say anything about the newer versions CM3 and WarBRD-D. VKB provide superb quality too, Winwings quality is ok (I do have the Super Taurus throttle, my brother owns the Gunfighter MK3 and T-Rudder pedals), but  i´d still recommend Virpil over WinWing and VKB as Virpil is compatible to TM and Realsimulator grips, providing you a much bigger choice of grips for your base without opening the grip and installing separate adaptors. The T50 has a nice and easy solution to swap springs wich can be a bit tricky with the WarBRD. And you can increase/decrease the stiffnes of the stick via tension screws, without having to swap springs at all. The WarBRD base on the other hand comes for a way better price and has, imo, a better gimbal construction as the cams are mirrored (2 cams per axis), while the T50 (CM2 at least) only has a single cam construction with 1 cam per axis. Some people reported issues with the single cam system of the T50CM2, namely that the cams are not 100% perfectly shaped resulting in they need slightly more force rolling left, than rolling right (or vice versa). I for myself cannot confirm this issue with my model and Virpil seems to have replaced the íssued cams for free. There is a thread about it here in the Virpil section of the forum. Also no idea if that was improved on the CM3. The WarBRD base is better suited for non-extension use as it has a "standard" axis deflection (comparable to the TM Warthog base and most other bases) and does not need to be mounted as it comes with a desktop baseplate. Like others have already said, the T50 should be used with at least 100mm extension, as it has only roughly half the axis deflection of the WarBRD base

When it comes to grips, you should be aware that TM grips are comparably heavy due to their metal construction, so you may need to use a stiffer setting on your T50 tension springs or, depending on your extension length, install heavier springs. With the WarBRD base, you´ll need to install the heavy springs. I´m running the TM Warthog grip on the WarBRD base and even with the heavy springs, it still shows permanently 1% pitch down in the Virpil Software. However, this is not beeing registrated in DCS and the F-16 flies perfectly level so it´s not an issue at all. The TM Hornet grip is a bit lighter than the Warthog and was perfectly centered. As others have said, the TM Hornet grip will be perfect for the Hornet, Harrier as well as the upcoming Strike Eagle and will also serve you well with other aircraft. It´s a good grip, i still have mine as a backup not willing to sell it. Just be aware that it does not come with a palm rest like other grips and when used in sidestick setup, this can be uncomfortable. It´s better suited for a center stick setup so you can rest your arm on the right leg. The TM A-10/F-16 grip is slightly cheaper, comes with the same amount of buttons (23 in total) and is a full metal construction, even the trigger is made out of metal. The TM Hornet grip has the upper part and the trigger made out of plastic, so the TM A-10/F-16 grip has better haptics imo. If that´s important for you, just saying. The TM grips also tend to slightly turn left and right when beeing used on Virpil bases / extensions, due to their inferior fixation nut. Just a mm or 2, but enough to damage your pins, wich is why you should loosen the screws on the Virpil bases connector so it can move with the stick. On the 200mm extension, this can be solved with a rubber washer. If you specificly want a dedicated Hornet/Harrier/F-15 grip, you are ok with the amount of buttons on the grip and that´s the maximum you´re willing to spend, i´d say this base/grip combo is the best choice you can make. If you want way more buttons on the grip and you are willing to spend more for a way better grip with a superior fixation system and some other advantages, you should take a look at the Realsimulator F-18 CGRH grip wich i can highly recommend. Definately the best Hornet grip on the market. However, it comes with a not so nice pricetag, starting at 390,-€ ex. VAT. But you´ll get what you pay for and i never regret bying it.

 

Cheers

Edited June 10, 2023 by VpR81

[thercman]

VpR81,

 

Thanks for all the valuable information. The TM grip arrived today and it is pretty heavy but solid and the buttons seem well made. The second stage on the trigger is a bit weird though. I have definitely considered the RealSimulator grips. With that said. their F-16 grip and FSSB-R3L ULTRA base will be my first upgrade. Since I am just getting started I wanted to begin with quality components that I would be happy with without breaking the bank... I have also ordered Virpil's T50 CM3 Base with a 100mm extension and their throttle. (I might order the 200mm extension as well.) For mounting I chose the Monstertech's short and long table mounts. I do a lot of building with aluminum extrusion and these will go nicely with the new desk frame I am building with 4080... Thanks for the heads up regarding the their inferior fixation nut. I'll be sure the loosen the base screws until I get the 200mm extension. 

Cheers,

Greg   

 

EDIT: I was just taking a look at the TM grip. Maybe I can squeeze an o-ring in between the base of the grip and threaded ring. That would allow the thread to put more clamping force on the base section of the grip preventing it from twisting...  

Edited June 13, 2023 by thercman