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Please Update the Kneeboard Functionality (Especially for WWII)


Would you like to see an Update to the Kneeboard for WWII  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see an Update to the Kneeboard for WWII????

    • Yes (Adding the ability to mark targets)
      28
    • No (All is good the way it is)
      3


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Posted (edited)

 Are there ay plans to provide more functionality with the kneeboard?   

Can there be a feature that allows us to mark the target location on the kneeboard and not just our present location.   This definitely would be great for WWII.

Edited by TPrince

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  • TPrince changed the title to Please Update the Kneeboard Functionality (Especially for WWII)
Posted
13 minutes ago, TPrince said:

Can there be a feature that allows us to mark the target location on the kneeboard and not just our present location.


having our present position readily available is cheating enough, no need to add another such feature, in my opinion of course.

  • Like 2

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

having our present position readily available is cheating enough, no need to add another such feature, in my opinion of course.

I've seen my fathers Kneeboard he used in Vietnam.  They wrote many details on it.  Not sure how that's cheating? 

They are Pilots tools.   (No Datalink back then hahaha) 

WWII RAF Pilot Kneeboard 

image.png

 

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image.png

Edited by TPrince
  • Like 3

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Posted

So, you're asking for better features of the mission planner, not ME, where you can draw/mark stuff that will be drawn on the kneeboard map?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

So, you're asking for better features of the mission planner, not ME, where you can draw/mark stuff that will be drawn on the kneeboard map?

Right now you can only mark your current position on the kneeboard.   I was wondering if they can add the ability to put a mark for a target on the kneeboard.  

Edited by TPrince
  • Like 1

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Posted
1 hour ago, TPrince said:

I've seen my fathers Kneeboard he used in Vietnam.  They wrote many details on it.  Not sure how that's cheating? 


sorry, I misunderstood you because you used as an example the Kneeboard’s ability to mark your precise current position without having to actually determine it from your instruments and clock (like your father did) … so I tought that you wanted the same for the target, ie to have it appear without any player intervention. If what you actually want is to type notes and paint marks on the map, I’m all for it.

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Rudel_chw said:


sorry, I misunderstood you because you used as an example the Kneeboard’s ability to mark your precise current position without having to actually determine it from your instruments and clock (like your father did) … so I tought that you wanted the same for the target, ie to have it appear without any player intervention. If what you actually want is to type notes and paint marks on the map, I’m all for it.

No Prob.  Completely understand.   Trust me, I want nothing handed to me.  I just want the ability to be able to read through the briefing and mark on the kneeboard map where I feel the target location is.  I play a lot of the 4ya Overlord server and feel this would be more helpful.  My Idea was open the kneeboard (Pre Flight) Mark the targets by using a mouse and a key or button to mark the spot the cursor is pointing to.  Or use it to mark whatever you want to mark for.  

  • Like 2

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Posted
No Prob.  Completely understand.   Trust me, I want nothing handed to me.  I just want the ability to be able to read through the briefing and mark on the kneeboard map where I feel the target location is.  I play a lot of the 4ya Overlord server and feel this would be more helpful.  My Idea was open the kneeboard (Pre Flight) Mark the targets by using a mouse and a key or button to mark the spot the cursor is pointing to.  Or use it to mark whatever you want to mark for.  
Yeah, I see. It would be a nice feature.

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Posted
This would be a great idea.
Simple to implement and very handy. 
Almost essential really......
 
Yes, it is.
If we could mark something by flying over and/or padlock view, would be awesome!

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Posted

I added a poll at the top.  Please take the time to respond

  • Like 1

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  • 4 months later...
Posted

@BIGNEWY@BIGNEWY. 

What do you think? Good Feautre to add, we'll atleast to the WWII planes 

  • Like 1

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  • 1 month later...
Posted
On 6/14/2023 at 3:19 AM, Rudel_chw said:

sorry, I misunderstood you because you used as an example the Kneeboard’s ability to mark your precise current position without having to actually determine it from your instruments and clock (like your father did)

There's also dead reckoning. The resolution of the current kneeboard is anything but precise. The only cheating part about it is the indication of which direction you're pointed, which also could be argued to not be cheating if you've got any landmarks off your nose.

  • Like 1
Posted
5 hours ago, Nealius said:

The only cheating part about it is the indication of which direction you're pointed, which also could be argued to not be cheating if you've got any landmarks off your nose.


I don’t know about that. The way it works currently means that it’s effectively a GPS with a moving map, except a bit more cumbersome to range in and out, and with the map in low resolution.

I’m all for making improvements that allow it to be used like it would be in real life (ie. actually using it to navigate).

 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Even at max zoom on the kneeboard it is not anywhere near as accurate as GPS. I don't know what kind of misinformed image of navigation ya'll have but the kneeboard accuracy isn't any different than looking out the window, seeing a cathedral you recognize and a river with a certain bend next to you to match up with the map. It's called pilotage (I earlier confused it with dead reckoning) and it's in the FAA handbook. The only time it's cheating is if you can't see anything (fog, clouds). The only arguments I see against the kneeboard in its current state are gatekeeping.

Edited by Nealius
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Nealius said:

Even at max zoom on the kneeboard it is not anywhere near as accurate as GPS. I don't know what kind of misinformed image of navigation ya'll have but the kneeboard accuracy isn't any different than looking out the window, seeing a cathedral you recognize and a river with a certain bend next to you to match up with the map. It's called pilotage (I earlier confused it with dead reckoning) and it's in the FAA handbook. The only time it's cheating is if you can't see anything (fog, clouds). The only arguments I see against the kneeboard in its current state are gatekeeping.

Hard disagree.

It is every bit as accurate as a GPS in that you get your exact position any time you want it.

In real life when using visual references and charts it can be shockingly easy to mistake similar towns, lakes, rivers, roads, or combinations of them for completely different locations on your map, leading to gross navigation errors. The other scenario is of course cloud or visibility challenges, as you mentioned.

The way the kneeboard works currently, allowing you to place an exact mark on map with your precise position is not at all similar to how you navigate in real life, and completely invalidates the skill set one must learn to navigate IRL successfully.

Quite a stretch to call it gatekeeping, and the mark functionality should be a prime candidate for a server side enforceable “realism” or “difficultly” setting.

Edited by kablamoman
  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

And how do you justify the F10 map then, as that gives your location down to the actual GPS coordinates, unlike the kneeboard? 

 

And it very much is gatekeeping by definition: "if you aren't using a stopwatch to navigate then you don't deserve to know your position." You have the personal option of doing that yourself without forcing everyone else to. No one is forcing you to use the position marker on the kneeboard, so what right do you have to ask for it to be changed? At the end of the day DCS is a game, not a professional simulator. Compromises are a necessity. That is a hard truth that cannot be debated. 

Edited by Nealius
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Nealius said:

And it very much is gatekeeping by definition: "if you aren't using a stopwatch to navigate then you don't deserve to know your position."

By that same logic all the difficulty settings are gatekeeping.

I don’t think anybody cares if you want to use the feature, but if a server operator would prefer to disable it so people don’t have a magic button that tells them their exact location anytime they want, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to have an option to prevent its use. Just like they already have options to disable external views, f10 map icons, and require the use of the realistic flight models.

Edited by kablamoman
  • Like 3
Posted
1 hour ago, kablamoman said:

By that same logic all the difficulty settings are gatekeeping.

I don’t think anybody cares if you want to use the feature, but if a server operator would prefer to disable it so people don’t have a magic button that tells them their exact location anytime they want, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to have an option to prevent its use. Just like they already have options to disable external views, f10 map icons, and require the use of the realistic flight models.

 

I asked about eliminating this kneeboard cheat in 4YA PO Discord, it did not get much traction, might scare newbies, and it is possible it cannot be implemented in the mission editor.

  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, motoadve said:

and it is possible it cannot be implemented in the mission editor.

I’m pretty sure the ability to mark your current position (without having to know your current position) can’t be disabled.

Personally, I would like to see a better chart resolution and more control over how to “fold” the map (which sections you can frame in the kneeboard), along with an ability to write anything you want on it freehand. Along with this, I would appreciate a server enforceable option to disable the “auto-mark” ability.

  • Like 2
Posted

Guys, it's not cheating it's just making it easier for players just starting up to not have to do all the math and finding monuments and all that, it simply just takes off the load. if you don't agree with this then don't use it.

  • Like 3
Posted

If we had the option to turn it off server side then on Project Overlord we would turn it off. But it's not an option, so we can't.

That said, it's the one crutch we have for newbies. Difficult enough flying with zero external views or the F10 gods eye mode if you're used to that.

  • Like 2

DCS WWII player. I run the mission design team behind 4YA WWII, the most popular DCS World War 2 server.

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