Pre-order start

[thodre]

On 8/15/2023 at 5:51 PM, Temetre said:

To me, it would actually lower my opinion if HB opens an early preorder, as long as they dont clearly state a believable requirement for it. I hope they are better than that.

Let me explain why preordering is important: Since Heatblur is short staffed, they only made a few prototypes until now. They hope they can spool up production by the time it goes into early release. But there are just too many variables to be certain they can cope with the demand, which, as we know, will be astronomical. So at the early realease date, which, btw. is in two weeks, they will deliver the planes in order of the incoming preorders. That means you have to be fast as soon as the news hit the DCS page smash that buy button!

Sorry, had to be done

[Temetre]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb thodre:

Let me explain why preordering is important: Since Heatblur is short staffed, they only made a few prototypes until now. They hope they can spool up production by the time it goes into early release. But there are just too many variables to be certain they can cope with the demand, which, as we know, will be astronomical. So at the early realease date, which, btw. is in two weeks, they will deliver the planes in order of the incoming preorders. That means you have to be fast as soon as the news hit the DCS page smash that buy button!

Sorry, had to be done

You actually had me for most of that post

[Temetre]

Am 15.8.2023 um 20:02 schrieb cfrag:

Yes - apologies for being obscure. My point was that there are people who are willing to give funds to something that does not yet exist. 

Yes, I was mostly confused because what you said wasnt applicable to the case of the F-4 in DCS. Or even the reason people want to have a preorder for the F-4.

Am 15.8.2023 um 20:02 schrieb cfrag:

It was not aimed at anyone, my post was not intended to be antagonistic in any way - something that I'm not sure I can say about yours. 

I mean thats kinda passive aggressive, isnt it? If you consider my post unfair or anything, just say so. Its just discussing views and behaviours after all.

[Horns]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:19 PM, cfrag said:

Are you familiar with "Kickstarter" projects or crowdfunding in general? Many people are happy to associate themselves with projects and show their support not only through words, but tangible action (funding in this case). I believe that there is ample evidence that people like to do this; it's not for everyone, and there is (of course) some risk involved. But there's a market for this.

All in all, I believe it's a viable way for both players and vendors to come to a business deal before the goods are delivered. If it makes people happy then there's a market for it. In my mind, crowdfunding is merely the logical extension of the pre-sales concept, so yeah, there are definitely people who are happy (or eager - but not necessarily "desperate" as you put it) to advance funds for a product not yet available. To me it lowers the financial risk for the vendor (by shifting it to the buyer) and makes actual delivery a bit more likely. So it has its uses, but is not for everyone.

Any module we buy in Early Access gets the standard 'everything is subject to change' disclaimer, meaning the 'release' state product might be quite different to that described during EA, as one particular (non HB) module taught me. I'd sooner back a HB module Kickstarter than buy an EA module from any other DCS dev again.

[Wacko_ZA]

I for one think this wont be a pre order module, but a sneaky release.
SURPRISE, here it is.

The F14 pre orders were a headache, as people figured they would be getting it in a week or two, and if i recall it was another 3 months before it came out. 

[Omega417]

40 minutes ago, Wacko_ZA said:

I for one think this wont be a pre order module, but a sneaky release.
SURPRISE, here it is.

I could see the announcement, followed by 3-4 weeks of videos on the Pits, radar, A/A & A/G then a release within a month of that announcement. And I'll bet we are getting very close to those first tours of our new office.

[Gunfreak]

5 hours ago, Omega417 said:

I could see the announcement, followed by 3-4 weeks of videos on the Pits, radar, A/A & A/G then a release within a month of that announcement. And I'll bet we are getting very close to those first tours of our new office.

That's how all moduals should be released. I hope both F4s go this way.

[RevampedGrunt]

It's been said that in the discord, that there will be a pre-order. If it changed, I guess we'll find out. 

[Aussie_Mantis]

Month 22 of 2022

Half-life 3 has released and Team Fortress's Heavy Update has been playtested and approved for release at Valve

The F-4E has yet to be released

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Aussie_Mantis

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, Aussie_Mantis said:

Month 22 of 2022

Half-life 3 has released and Team Fortress's Heavy Update has been playtested and approved for release at Valve

The F-4E has yet to be released

 

 

Rotten! I thought I missed a release of Half-Life 3 there for a second when I read your post!  Joke all you want, but don't include Half Life 3 - it's too soon (still)! 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dangerzone

[Dragon1-1]

I think the Phantom will come before HL3.  

[Horns]

I guess it's that time again... So, anyone want to take another crack at when we'll see the start of preorders and/or EA?

I'll guess preorders start Q1 '24 with EA starting in Q2...

[dcsil2pilot]

I'm team Spooktober, it makes sense thematically. I just hope Heatblur share the same sentiment.

 

Realistically though if it is 2023, preorders would probably start end of this month/Early November with release in December.

 

Heatblur have, again, been saying they're very sure of a 2023 release so speculation has spread that they're on hold until 2.9 releases. I'm on the fence for that, but who knows? I would really hope that if 2023 wasn't 100% sure, they would let us know now rather than have a repeat of 2022.

[WTFCSon]

We really need that whiteboard from Cabin In The Woods to capture everyone's guesses. The community is all over the place.

 

[Horns]

49 minutes ago, dcsil2pilot said:

I'm team Spooktober, it makes sense thematically. I just hope Heatblur share the same sentiment.

 

Realistically though if it is 2023, preorders would probably start end of this month/Early November with release in December.

 

Heatblur have, again, been saying they're very sure of a 2023 release so speculation has spread that they're on hold until 2.9 releases. I'm on the fence for that, but who knows? I would really hope that if 2023 wasn't 100% sure, they would let us know now rather than have a repeat of 2022.

I didn't know (not that I tried to find out) HB affirmed this year, I hope you (and they) are right. Any rough idea of how long ago they said that? I guess the golden rule is to curb one's enthusiasm, at least until we start seeing the vids...

[dcsil2pilot]

2 hours ago, Horns said:

I didn't know (not that I tried to find out) HB affirmed this year, I hope you (and they) are right. Any rough idea of how long ago they said that? I guess the golden rule is to curb one's enthusiasm, at least until we start seeing the vids...

It's been said by Cobra on Reddit a few times and I believe on their discord. I don't remember exactly the post, but it was a month or so ago at most

[Horns]

57 minutes ago, dcsil2pilot said:

It's been said by Cobra on Reddit a few times and I believe on their discord. I don't remember exactly the post, but it was a month or so ago at most

Cheers, much appreciated. I'll stop being an ass and give them the benefit of the doubt, here's to #phantomtwentyphree

Edited October 3, 2023 by Horns
Saying it like the kids do

[dcsil2pilot]

I mean, I get the whole restraint of it. Nov 2022 on the forums they said it was nearing completion. So it's understandable to have the feeling of "I'll believe it when I see it" but I can't help but be hyped.

[_BringTheReign_]

It is starting to become a bit of a pattern where when the confidence is high, an estimate (not a promise, an estimate) is provided, and then passed. The problem is that because we are all passionate, we set high hopes that those estimates are accurate, and then are disappointed when they are not. 

I remind myself that from the start, Cobra has said that the way we know the F-4E is close, is when we start seeing videos and system deep dives on the module. Despite some appearances in trailers and some mentions of what they are still working away at, we have not yet seen that, so we are not close. It makes sense - they are working hard every day (and from the discord messages, well into the night as well) to reach the milestones and release the product - so there isn't much time for marketing - they're still making! 

I don't envy the position they are in, or any module developer for that matter - if you give people early access and show the thing off in videos too early, people get frustrated (a la Razbam F-15E). It feels like if you show nothing, you're not on the radar of the general sim crowd and therefore get less heat from the community. That's just my 2 cents. 

At the end of the day, we're all passionate about this aircraft, about this community and this sim. We are also a tough bunch to please sometimes, being so niche. There really is only one shot at a first impression, and HB team taking their time to get it right is the right call. I am sure at a certain point there will be a line that is crossed that says "it will cost more to keep working on this unreleased than it would released" and that's when we'll see the pre-order. Whether that line is by the end of this year, or early next year, or summer next year, we don't know. At the end of the day we're all human beings, it will come, and everything is going to be ok. 

[Raisuli]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:48 PM, Bremspropeller said:

0:58

Outboard wing panel is not impressed by that non-flared landing

Real jets hit the ground with 750 feet of vertical descent and the outboard wing panels like it. 

[Gomez Adams]

On 10/3/2023 at 3:58 PM, _BringTheReign_ said:

It is starting to become a bit of a pattern where when the confidence is high, an estimate (not a promise, an estimate) is provided, and then passed. The problem is that because we are all passionate, we set high hopes that those estimates are accurate, and then are disappointed when they are not. 

I remind myself that from the start, Cobra has said that the way we know the F-4E is close, is when we start seeing videos and system deep dives on the module. Despite some appearances in trailers and some mentions of what they are still working away at, we have not yet seen that, so we are not close. It makes sense - they are working hard every day (and from the discord messages, well into the night as well) to reach the milestones and release the product - so there isn't much time for marketing - they're still making! 

I don't envy the position they are in, or any module developer for that matter - if you give people early access and show the thing off in videos too early, people get frustrated (a la Razbam F-15E). It feels like if you show nothing, you're not on the radar of the general sim crowd and therefore get less heat from the community. That's just my 2 cents. 

At the end of the day, we're all passionate about this aircraft, about this community and this sim. We are also a tough bunch to please sometimes, being so niche. There really is only one shot at a first impression, and HB team taking their time to get it right is the right call. I am sure at a certain point there will be a line that is crossed that says "it will cost more to keep working on this unreleased than it would released" and that's when we'll see the pre-order. Whether that line is by the end of this year, or early next year, or summer next year, we don't know. At the end of the day we're all human beings, it will come, and everything is going to be ok. 

The problem with all of that is they announce it and they post a really cool video about it and it gets you all hyped up and then nothing. It's been a year since that announcement and video were posted.

They sort of created the problem themselves by posting that to begin with. That could have waited until they knew they were closer to the end. The "hurry up and wait" approach has never and will never please anybody.

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, Gomez Adams said:

The problem with all of that is they announce it and they post a really cool video about it and it gets you all hyped up and then nothing. It's been a year since that announcement and video were posted.

They sort of created the problem themselves by posting that to begin with. That could have waited until they knew they were closer to the end. The "hurry up and wait" approach has never and will never please anybody.

A year is nothing in DCS time. Come-back if the F4 hasn't been released in another 4 years.

[silverdevil]

in all fairness, the newsletters will mention development reports. show progress images of all grey cockpits or whatever. i am not entirely sure if this harms or helps. the 'pitchforks and torches' club like to come out on the littlest transgression. so i understand the tight lipped information sharing. look at it like a surprise gift. one day you wake up and something new is released.

[Gomez Adams]

15 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

A year is nothing in DCS time. Come-back if the F4 hasn't been released in another 4 years.

Again, that's the problem. People don't run on DCS time, they run on their own. To expect the entire planet to bow down to your timeline and say nothing at all is, sorry to say, not only arrogant but more than a bit ridiculous and unrealistic.

[MAXsenna]

Again, that's the problem. People don't run on DCS time, they run on their own. To expect the entire planet to bow down to your timeline and say nothing at all is, sorry to say, not only arrogant but more than a bit ridiculous and unrealistic.

Would you feel better if they released a new timeline that said four more years? I'm pretty sure they don't work for you, but on their own time.

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