Show Me Your Landings.........

[CyberNV]

Curious to see what I am doing wrong. Never mind the fact that I just found the AoA indicator. LoL

[Sedlo]

37 minutes ago, CyberNV said:

Curious to see what I am doing wrong. Never mind the fact that I just found the AoA indicator. LoL

Here is one: 

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Similar to F-15C and not so hard as the F-16C

[bfr]

6 hours ago, CyberNV said:

Curious to see what I am doing wrong. Never mind the fact that I just found the AoA indicator. LoL

What is going bad for you? I find it quite easy to get down in one piece and its the best behaved module IMHO under braking. Although one thing that has come up a few times is people forgetting it can carry a lot of weight in fuel and then struggling to land it with very full tanks and the high approach speeds that go with that.

[Sarge55]

I start dumping fuel when on the last leg to the airfield. Shoot for 8,000lbs or so. Less if I’m bringing back ordinance.  Seems to help with landing. 

[jaylw314]

On 7/17/2023 at 9:11 AM, Sedlo said:

Here is one: 

 

ngl, was a little nervous seeing your aimpoint in the overrun area on final 

[Sedlo]

2 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

ngl, was a little nervous seeing your aimpoint in the overrun area on final 

  This bird has a lot of "float'

[jaylw314]

3 minutes ago, Sedlo said:

  This bird has a lot of "float'

LOL, I did have some tightening in personal areas watching, but I'm just teasing  

[jaylw314]

Here's my entry:

 

[Avio]

Most videos of the real F15E show them deploying the speed brake during the flare, instead of just after touch-down. Which is better?

Opening the brake during flare does tend to distract and even affect the flaring effort somewhat.

 

[jaylw314]

14 hours ago, Avio said:

Most videos of the real F15E show them deploying the speed brake during the flare, instead of just after touch-down. Which is better?

Opening the brake during flare does tend to distract and even affect the flaring effort somewhat.

 

Just tried it, I was worried it would change the trim or pitch but it seemed to stay neutral during deployment.  Cool!

[Ignition]

16 hours ago, Avio said:

Most videos of the real F15E show them deploying the speed brake during the flare, instead of just after touch-down. Which is better?

Opening the brake during flare does tend to distract and even affect the flaring effort somewhat.

 

Opening the speed brakes just before ground effect helps to not float to much and miss the touch point.

[Nealius]

Haven't noticed a difference between landing board out, board closed, or opening board prior/during flare. All four techniques result in a float with FPM ~1 deg below horizon. 

[Theodore42]

If you have a really light load you kind of need the airbrake during the flare or the F-15E will sail halfway down the runway before touching down.

[WizzRD]

Nellis Overhead break 21R, Touch & Go, Landing; both with extended downwind to have a peek at the race avoid overflying the racetrack.

 

 

[Sedlo]

 

[jaylw314]

11 hours ago, Theodore42 said:

If you have a really light load you kind of need the airbrake during the flare or the F-15E will sail halfway down the runway before touching down.

Opening the brake during the roundout and flare only shortened my runs by a couple hundred feet, so not a massive difference or anything, but a little better

[Hipster]

On 7/17/2023 at 4:33 PM, CyberNV said:

Curious to see what I am doing wrong. Never mind the fact that I just found the AoA indicator. LoL

FWIW - I have been flying the F-15C for at least a year...at the start I could barely crash it very well! 

However, after a lot of practice, lots of training videos and a lot more practice, I reckon I am pretty good at getting an F-15C down without bursting a tyre or bending the U/C.  Not bad since my PPL was on C-152/172 and getting on for 40 years ago.  

Moved onto an F-18.  The basics were there, and after a lot of familiarisation, I could make a decent pass at a dry landing, and just about get away with a CAT-1 carrier trap.  Not pretty, but not bad.  

Then, the F-15E comes along.  Now I LOVE the F-15 with a passion that isn't altogether healthy, so if course I had to get it...

The basics are still there.  I am still in the familiarisation phase.  I haven't crashed or bent her on landing (yet).  I can just about get her to 21 AOA, maintain around 170Knts, and manage my sink rate so that I can make the landing work.  I find A/B is optional depending on flare/travel down the runway etc.  I really struggle with the base turn into final from an overhead break: I cannot seem to coordinate the descent and turn so that I line up nicely on the C/L with a few hundred feet to go. 

I think the "simplification" of the F-15C model is more apparent when compared to the F-15E (in my case at least) and it feels like big difference is that the "weight" of the F-15E is there whereas it isn't in the F-15C (apologies - subjective but that's how it "feels") so there is a lot more momentum and "physics" involved.

More practice is needed.  Once comfortable with the basics I plan to practice some more until I can get it polished, and then I'll practice it some more.

(Maybe not that helpful but useful therapy for me, and I feel better getting it off my chest - thanks for listening.)

[Theodore42]

1 hour ago, Hipster said:

I think the "simplification" of the F-15C model is more apparent when compared to the F-15E (in my case at least) and it feels like big difference is that the "weight" of the F-15E is there whereas it isn't in the F-15C (apologies - subjective but that's how it "feels") so there is a lot more momentum and "physics" involved.

The FM of the F-15C is a PFM and is about as accurate as the F-15E. The E's engines weigh a whole lot more than the C's, has fuselage tanks adding weight and drag, and has a heavy air ground radar in the nose messing up the center of gravity. The feeling of weight is part of it 

1 hour ago, Hipster said:

I can just about get her to 21 AOA, maintain around 170Knts, and manage my sink rate so that I can make the landing work.  I find A/B is optional depending on flare/travel down the runway etc.  I really struggle with the base turn into final from an overhead break: I cannot seem to coordinate the descent and turn so that I line up nicely on the C/L with a few hundred feet to go. 

If the F-15 is clean and is low on fuel do more like 23 AoA units. Always land with a 2-3 degree glideslope and don't worry about speed, just CPUs (AoA units).

4 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Opening the brake during the roundout and flare only shortened my runs by a couple hundred feet, so not a massive difference or anything, but a little better

Use the air brake to get the wheels on the ground so you don't float but then skip the aerobraking and go straight to wheel brakes. I believe this is the recommended procedure for when the aircraft is very light.

[jaylw314]

21 minutes ago, Theodore42 said:

Use the air brake to get the wheels on the ground so you don't float but then skip the aerobraking and go straight to wheel brakes. I believe this is the recommended procedure for when the aircraft is very light.

It wouldn't have been a good comparison to normal technique then   FWIW it still seemed to float, just a tiny bit less.  I half expected opening the brake to dramatically push you down into the runway, but it didn't feel that way.

[Nealius]

3 hours ago, Theodore42 said:

The FM of the F-15C is a PFM and is about as accurate as the F-15E. The E's engines weigh a whole lot more than the C's, has fuselage tanks adding weight and drag, and has a heavy air ground radar in the nose messing up the center of gravity. The feeling of weight is part of it

Which is why I find it weird that the Mudhen floats so much with even the slightest amount of flare, while the C doesn't. 

[Theodore42]

7 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

It wouldn't have been a good comparison to normal technique then   FWIW it still seemed to float, just a tiny bit less.  I half expected opening the brake to dramatically push you down into the runway, but it didn't feel that way.

4 hours ago, Nealius said:

Which is why I find it weird that the Mudhen floats so much with even the slightest amount of flare, while the C doesn't. 

The 229 engines in the F-15E have a higher idle thrust than the 220s in the F-15C, so they are pushing you down the runway. This is the reason given for the procedure of skipping aerobraking and going straight to wheel brakes when landing the F-15E very light. I read that the idle speed is reduced after 20 seconds of weight on wheels but it looked like this wasn't implemented last time I checked.

[Ignition]

7 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

It wouldn't have been a good comparison to normal technique then   FWIW it still seemed to float, just a tiny bit less.  I half expected opening the brake to dramatically push you down into the runway, but it didn't feel that way.

It's not about "push" but about drag. The speedbrake helps but it's not as if you were at 500 knots.

4 hours ago, Nealius said:

Which is why I find it weird that the Mudhen floats so much with even the slightest amount of flare, while the C doesn't. 

It has been ages since I flew a FC aircraft, but that aircraft may not have a ground effect in it's FM.

[jaylw314]

11 hours ago, Ignition said:

It's not about "push" but about drag. The speedbrake helps but it's not as if you were at 500 knots.

I was just thinking about its positioning that, intuitively, it might cause some negative lift as well, but intuition appears wrong in this case  

[GGTharos]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:02 PM, Hipster said:

I think the "simplification" of the F-15C model is more apparent when compared to the F-15E (in my case at least) and it feels like big difference is that the "weight" of the F-15E is there whereas it isn't in the F-15C (apologies - subjective but that's how it "feels") so there is a lot more momentum and "physics" involved.

It's subject and correct and wrong at the same time.   You're right' the 'weight' isn't there in a light gray, because it is much lighter ... but at the same time, the 'weight' isn't there in a light grey because the CG is different, and this makes a pretty huge difference IMHO.  The F-15C is simplified in some ways but not in this way - the beagle has more nice and extended feedback for the 'feel' of the flight though, again IMHO, and of course the beagle models the systems in much more detail - here I refer to hydraulics etc.