Randomly becoming blind while flying at night. Can't see instruments.

[audiman]

So I can't reliably fly at night, not because idk how to navigate with instruments but because my entire screen randomly goes black to the point that i can't see the instruments. I actually don't mind flying at night and can do case 3 recoveries in the Hornet and Tomcat, but when I'm on final to the carrier and looking between instruments and the HUD and all of a sudden I randomly can't see literally anything in the cockpit, that's a bad time. This has also gotten me killed while trying to lock someone on the Radar at night and my screen goes black to the point I can't see the radar anymore. 

I haven't been able to pinpoint what specifically causes it. but it appears to be an issue with my game trying to balance contrast between the cockpit and the pitch black exterior of the jet

This has happened in the Hornet, Tomcat, and the Apache. Both in multiplayer and campaign missions(both default and DLC campaigns), and has happened on the Georgia map and the Persian Gulf map.

I will say that it happens the most in the Hornet on Hoggit's GAW, but that is mostly because that is my primary jet and multiplayer server.

I attached a Track file from the last time it happened. I hope the track file isn't too large. it took a few minutes of flight for it to occur, but it happens pretty reliably, although seemingly random to me as far as the cause goes, every time I fly at night.

If anyone has any tips or has experienced this please chime in. I really love DCS and don't want to be restricted to daytime servers because I can't see at night.

Note, I have the Steam version running the Open Beta MT preview. it should be noted that this has occurred on stable version as well as non multi-threading in both 2k and 1080p resolutions. 

PC:

Ryzen 7 5800X

Asus TUF RTX3080

32GB RAM 3600mhz

DCS installed on 1TB Samsung 980 Pro

Windows 10

All drivers up to date.

I run triple 32" 2k monitors in my "sim racing rig" which now doubles as my flight sim rig as well.

Georgia At War v3.0.24_evening-20230812-130136.trk

[MAXsenna]

Sorry for a stupid ridiculous question.
This can't be your screen dimming, like a screen saver, or Windows entering night mode, right?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Flappie]

This sounds to me like an external app tries to adapt to what appears on the screen. As @MAXsenna points out, it could be a Windows feature. I'm thinking it could also be some kind of shader app.

@audiman Do you use Reshade or a similar shader mod?

[audiman]

On 8/14/2023 at 7:23 PM, MAXsenna said:

Sorry for a stupid ridiculous question.
This can't be your screen dimming, like a screen saver, or Windows entering night mode, right?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

not a stupid question at all! no worries. But no, it is not the monitor physically being dimmed by a screen saver(i do not have a screen saver set up) or entering night mode.

thanks for the response and asking "stupid" questions. never hurts to ask!

 

On 8/15/2023 at 2:33 AM, Flappie said:

This sounds to me like an external app tries to adapt to what appears on the screen. As @MAXsenna points out, it could be a Windows feature. I'm thinking it could also be some kind of shader app.

@audiman Do you use Reshade or a similar shader mod?

I do not use any shader mod. While i do have some aircraft mods like the Hercules and the Blackhawk for the Grayflag Persian Gulf server, i have not really used them.

 

However, this issue has persisted prior to any installation of those mods. 

 

Also it has persisted across multiple GPU driver updates as well.

[audiman]

The only work around i have for flying at night is i have to keep the HUD and DDI's at daytime brightness, so that whenever my screen does go dark, i can just barely make out the HUD and DDI's

[Loukuins]

4 hours ago, audiman said:

The only work around i have for flying at night is i have to keep the HUD and DDI's at daytime brightness, so that whenever my screen does go dark, i can just barely make out the HUD and DDI's

This sounds like a monitor going into night mode and dimming the brightness down when there is not much stuff bright on the screen

[audiman]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:34 PM, Loukuins said:

This sounds like a monitor going into night mode and dimming the brightness down when there is not much stuff bright on the screen

Hmmm, I'll double check my monitor settings this evening when I get home from work. I'm almost positive I don't have any sort of night mode enabled, but it could have been enabled by default and I never noticed it until now. Doesn't hurt to check.

 

Just curious, does the Track file indicate the problem I'm describing for anyone else?

[Loukuins]

I'm sorry but I don't have the time to check that today, I will see if I think about it tomorrow (I forgot a lot sadly). 

Yeah it will not hurt to double check indeed

[audiman]

2 hours ago, Loukuins said:

I'm sorry but I don't have the time to check that today, I will see if I think about it tomorrow (I forgot a lot sadly). 

Yeah it will not hurt to double check indeed

no worries, Was just curious if it showed up in the track file for others.

I just checked. no night time modes are enabled either by Windows, Nvidia settings, or local monitor settings. Was kind of hoping i found something while looking

[Flappie]

Next time it happens, take a screenshot and post it here, please.

[audiman]

here is a couple of screen shots from a previous recording. first one is normal night time instrument lights, and the 2nd one everything goes dark and you can barely see the UEFI only because it's much brighter than the other instrument lights 

these screenshots are only 1 or 2 seconds apart. screen goes dark and stays dark for several seconds(up to 5-15 seconds) and will come back to normal before going dark again

Edited August 23, 2023 by audiman

[MAXsenna]

We believe you, but I've never heard of any other user with a similar problem, and that makes me pretty positive it's a local issue on your system. Can you borrow another screen to test?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[audiman]

12 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

We believe you, but I've never heard of any other user with a similar problem, and that makes me pretty positive it's a local issue on your system. Can you borrow another screen to test?

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

I play on triple 32" 2k MSI monitors, all 3 monitors do this. I have a 27" monitor for my desktop gaming setup that I could try but it would take some rigging to move stuff around on the Sim Rig.

And I have never heard about it either. I googled a ton of things trying to get info and got nothing close to what I'm experiencing. I tried doing my due diligence before reporting it but had no luck finding any information.

 

What are some local settings that I may not be aware of? "you don't know what you don't know" so there may be some random local system setting or Nvidia setting that I'm not aware of that could cause this.

[cw4ogden]

On 8/14/2023 at 4:48 PM, audiman said:

So I can't reliably fly at night, not because idk how to navigate with instruments but because my entire screen randomly goes black...

Just curious if this happens to you after looking at the F-10 map or external view?  I get the very dark cockpit at night pretty frequently and it's always after cycling thru external views or looking at the map.  

If this is your issue, for me it usually self corrects in 5 to 10 seconds, or you can toggle external view / cockpit view a couple of times and it resets to cockpit gamma levels.

Edited August 24, 2023 by cw4ogden

[audiman]

7 minutes ago, cw4ogden said:

Just curious if this happens to you after looking at the F-10 map or external view?  I get the very dark cockpit at night pretty frequently and it's always after cycling thru external views or looking at the map.  

If this is your issue, for me it usually self corrects in 5 to 10 seconds, or you can toggle external view / cockpit view a couple of times and it resets to cockpit gamma levels.

 

No, unfortunately it just happens when I'm in the cockpit. Alternating views from F10 map, to F1 Cockpit, to F2 External view doesn't seem to affect it. 

It typically happens when I'm just in the cockpit. I could be heads down, looking at the HUD, or looking around outside with NVG's and it'll happen.

It seems like some sort of contrast adjustment issue, like the game(or my PC/system, idk yet) is having a hard time with the brightness of the instrument lights vs the darkness of the exterior of the jet. 

A buddy I fly with says it happens to him, but less frequently. he plays in VR though.

Also, here is a video on a Reddit post I made in Hoggit a while back

 

 

[Loukuins]

2 hours ago, audiman said:

No, unfortunately it just happens when I'm in the cockpit. Alternating views from F10 map, to F1 Cockpit, to F2 External view doesn't seem to affect it. 

It typically happens when I'm just in the cockpit. I could be heads down, looking at the HUD, or looking around outside with NVG's and it'll happen.

It seems like some sort of contrast adjustment issue, like the game(or my PC/system, idk yet) is having a hard time with the brightness of the instrument lights vs the darkness of the exterior of the jet. 

A buddy I fly with says it happens to him, but less frequently. he plays in VR though.

Also, here is a video on a Reddit post I made in Hoggit a while back

 

 

Maybe the sun visor pops in and out ? But that won't explain the fade out of the issue progressively... 
Also I can see it occurs when you move your head down ?

[MAXsenna]

@audiman 

Okay, looking at the vid, we can safely say it's not your system, or else the chat text would be dimmed too.
I have no clue, never happened to me.

EDIT: Tried your track got some errors, and only an Su-27 was loaded.
Do I need to edit the track to get into the cockpit perhaps?

Edited August 24, 2023 by MAXsenna

[Art-J]

I don't own any modern DCS planes, so can't check the replay track. After watching that short hoggit clip though, I think the problem is possibly related to the infamous auto-exposure adjustment introduced with DCS 2.8, messing up internal-vs-external lighting when looking / zoomming around cockpits of all modules in the game nowadays. Many threads on the subject have been posted. It's "only" pretty annoying during sunny day missions, but might be gamebraking during night ones if other factors align "the wrong way" (cloud coverage, moon phase etc.). I don't fly night missions so haven't noticed such extreme example, but that's my guess at the moment.

The bad thing is - the exposure "feature" can't be disabled, nor does it seem to be considered a bug by ED. Have you tested other aircraft and cloud and moon conditions?

Edited August 24, 2023 by Art-J

[cw4ogden]

3 hours ago, audiman said:

No, unfortunately it just happens when I'm in the cockpit. Alternating views from F10 map, to F1 Cockpit, to F2 External view doesn't seem to affect it. 

It typically happens when I'm just in the cockpit. I could be heads down, looking at the HUD, or looking around outside with NVG's and it'll happen.

It seems like some sort of contrast adjustment issue, like the game(or my PC/system, idk yet) is having a hard time with the brightness of the instrument lights vs the darkness of the exterior of the jet. 

A buddy I fly with says it happens to him, but less frequently. he plays in VR though.

Also, here is a video on a Reddit post I made in Hoggit a while back

I've had the problem I described for quite some time.  Yours just sounds like the same thing only it's not as a result of switching views.  I'm trying to wrack my brain for things I tried.  I am in VR too, but it sounds like you are not?

That would rule out all the VR settings right out of the gate.

I fly A LOT of night.  When I run my server it's called "Cold, Dark and Miserable", so It's kind of my thing.  99% of DCS online is daytime flights.  This is under the radar because so few people are seeing it is my guess.

Edited August 24, 2023 by cw4ogden

[audiman]

45 minutes ago, Loukuins said:

Maybe the sun visor pops in and out ? But that won't explain the fade out of the issue progressively... 
Also I can see it occurs when you move your head down ?

in this video it happens to be when I tilted my head down. But it can also be when I'm already heads down, heads up looking through the HUD, or just looking around outside with/without NVG's. I'm not aware that the Hornet has a sun visor.

 

42 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

@audiman 

Okay, looking at the vid, we can safely say it's not your system, or else the chat text would be dimmed too.
I have no clue, never happened to me.

EDIT: Tried your track got some errors, and only an Su-27 was loaded.
Do I need to edit the track to get into the cockpit perhaps?

 

Ok that's probably my bad about the track file, could have grabbed the wrong one or it's bugged because I had the same issue. This was my first time trying to use a track file, while I did look up how to do it, I could have done something incorrectly or grabbed the wrong one. I'll try and post an updated track file this evening, but I'll be out of town starting this evening until Saturday evening.

That's a good point about the text chat, I didn't think about it. So that's good to confirm it's not a local system issue.

 

22 minutes ago, Art-J said:

I don't own any modern DCS planes, so can't check the replay track. After watching that short hoggit clip though, I think the problem is possibly related to the infamous auto-exposure adjustment introduced with DCS 2.8, messing up internal-vs-external lighting when looking / zoomming around cockpits of all modules in the game nowadays. Many threads on the subject have been posted. It's "only" pretty annoying during sunny day missions, but might be gamebraking during night ones if other factors align "the wrong way" (cloud coverage, moon phase etc.). I don't fly night missions so haven't noticed such extreme example, but that's my guess at the moment.

The bad thing is - the exposure "feature" can't be disabled, nor does it seem to be considered a bug by ED. Have you tested other aircraft and cloud and moon conditions?

 

That's what I was thinking as well, along the lines of exposure or contrast or something within DCS.

But yes, this does happen on various aircraft. It's the worst in the Hornet at night (but i fly it the most so that's where I notice it the most), but it has happened to me in the F-14 and the Apache.

The Apache is normally fine if I'm cruising over ground with the FLIR vision (forgive me for forgetting the actual term...), but if I cross a small section of water where the "ground" essentially becomes completely black at night then the same bug occurs in the same manner.

5 minutes ago, cw4ogden said:

I've had the problem I described for quite some time.  Yours just sounds like the same thing only it's not as a result of switching views.  I'm trying to wrack my brain for things I tried.  I am in VR too, but it sounds like you are not?

That would rule out all the VR settings right out of the gate.

I fly A LOT of night.  When I run my server it's called "Cold, Dark and Miserable", so It's king of my thing.  99% of DCS online is daytime flights.  This is under the radar because so few people are seeing it is my guess.

 

Correct, I'm using TrackIR5 with the "pro clip" on my headphones.

And I actually don't mind flying at night and would do it more often if I could at least reliably see the instruments haha

[audiman]

Is there a way to shorten the length of track files? my most recent night flight was on PGAW and the track file is too large. however the blindness issue started immediately after takeoff from the carrier

[Loukuins]

8 hours ago, audiman said:

in this video it happens to be when I tilted my head down. But it can also be when I'm already heads down, heads up looking through the HUD, or just looking around outside with/without NVG's. I'm not aware that the Hornet has a sun visor.

 

I'm not sure too if the Hornet have a Sun visor, but as MAXsenna pointed out if the chat is dimmed it's a game issue indeed, are you running the latest drivers and did you deleted fxo and metashaders2 folders in your saved games? (If you already did all of that then I'm kinda out of solutions I'm sorry)
It's a very weird thing, and maybe there is an issue in a very specific situation that the auto exposure of DCS break... I hope we solve this issue, I can understand it can be very frustrating. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Loukuins
forgot the most important word lmao

[audiman]

I can't shorten the track file, every time I try to save it differently to shorten it and replay it, I get errors and can't see my plane.

On 8/24/2023 at 7:21 PM, Loukuins said:

I'm sure too if the Hornet have a Sun visor, but as MAXsenna pointed out if the chat is dimmed it's a game issue indeed, are you running the latest drivers and did you deleted fxo and metashaders2 folders in your saved games? (If you already did all of that then I'm kinda out of solutions I'm sorry)
It's a very weird thing, and maybe there is an issue in a very specific situation that the auto exposure of DCS break... I hope we solve this issue, I can understand it can be very frustrating. 

yes, I have the latest drivers, and it has persisted across numerous drivers.

I haven't deleted anything shader related to the game. I do not have any shader mods installed and I'm not familiar with the fxo and metashaders2 folder you're referencing. is it a known issue that those folders need to be modified or something?

Edited August 29, 2023 by audiman

[MAXsenna]

28 minutes ago, audiman said:

I can't shorten the track file, every time I try to save it differently to shorten it and replay it, I get errors and can't see my plane.

What you can do, is rename the trk file to a miz file. So it becomes a mission. Take note of "exactly" where you were, what time, bearing etc. Spawn a Hornet there and try to repeat what you do, then you might be able to get a short track.

Cheers!

[audiman]

Ok here is a track file, i just hopped on PGAW at night and flew around for a few minutes until it happened. didn't happen as frequently but it did happen several times towards the middle and end of the flight.

Persian Gulf At War 1.0.0_evening-20230824-192905.trk