AERGES announces the F-104

[303_Kermit]

On 1/1/2024 at 1:15 PM, Bremspropeller said:

There's always a shockwave in front of the wing. Either caused by the tip tanks or by the tip-rails, which also protude a good deal in front of the LE. I'm also quite sure they figured out how to launch the Sparrow supersonically. It's not quite rocket-surgery to design a launcher that can create enough separation.

Most fighters Is very limited during flight with the tanks. Even more limitations are from that reason by dropping tanks. And actually... It is exactly Rocket - Science 
it's called these way not without a reason.  
Anything what points in front of a wing changes Shockwave geometry of F-104's supersonic airfoil. Affects stability.
"Shockwave physics" is non intuitive and requires understanding of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics, to start explaining something. To "Figure out " something one requires to redesign wing. F-104S wasn't quality choice - it was economy choice. Phantom was simply much better, but F-104 provided workplaces for italian industry.

 

On 1/1/2024 at 12:43 PM, SuperKermit said:

Can you quote a source for that data?

for start I'll suggest these movie:

source of information: "Lockheed F-104 Starfighter: A History" by Martin W. Bowman

My best regards.

Edited January 3 by 303_Kermit

[TLTeo]

On 1/1/2024 at 12:43 PM, SuperKermit said:

Can you quote a source for that data?

I can't track down a source but I have read Italian pilots saying that (I imagine at low-ish altitude because clutter?) the AIM-7 envelope was more limited by the radar range than the missile.

[SuperKermit]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb TLTeo:

I can't track down a source but I have read Italian pilots saying that (I imagine at low-ish altitude because clutter?) the AIM-7 envelope was more limited by the radar range than the missile.

It is clear that the 104 radar probably ist not the best performing one. But 6 nm detection (not even lock on) range for a fighter seems VERY low. Even the F-5 radar does MUCH better! So I wonder where this exact number is coming from!

Edited January 8 by SuperKermit

[TLTeo]

Eh the F-5 radar isn't exactly the most realistic representation in DCS, and even then it gets really mediocre at low altitude. If you want another comparison - for the Mig-21 it doesn't sound completely insane assuming you're at low altitude.

[303_Kermit]

On 1/8/2024 at 2:44 PM, SuperKermit said:

It is clear that the 104 radar probably ist not the best performing one. But 6 nm detection (not even lock on) range for a fighter seems VERY low. Even the F-5 radar does MUCH better! So I wonder where this exact number is coming from!

 

tbh, There's a training video available on YT about F-4J and AiM-7, shoot from various aspects. There are given F-Pole ranges and Detection ranges. It's not most impressive.
F-5E-3 From DCS has amazing radar. Over Syria I was able to detect 2x Mi-24 flying at 10ft from 18 000ft altitude, and 12nm.

Edited January 11 by 303_Kermit

[Bremspropeller]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:03 AM, 303_Kermit said:

Most fighters Is very limited during flight with the tanks. Even more limitations are from that reason by dropping tanks. And actually... It is exactly Rocket - Science 
it's called these way not without a reason.  
Anything what points in front of a wing changes Shockwave geometry of F-104's supersonic airfoil. Affects stability.
"Shockwave physics" is non intuitive and requires understanding of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics, to start explaining something. To "Figure out " something one requires to redesign wing. F-104S wasn't quality choice - it was economy choice. Phantom was simply much better, but F-104 provided workplaces for italian industry.

The 104S manual I have states no separation issues up through to Mach 2.2 for both AIM-7 and Aspide - in fact, the only limitation stated is gas ingestion when going too slow, too high.

Pages 5-15 and 5-16 / Figures 5-7 and 5-8.

There's no "subsonic launch only" for any missiles anywhere in the manual. There are limitations for weapons/stores jettison only.

The 104 isn't limited much by the tanks either, except for g loads. Tip tanks are cleared to Mach 2.0 and only the pylon tanks are limiting the jet to subsonic.

[frodrigues2016]

Well the StarFighter sometimes is lost in space so it needs to lower altitude because the oxygen is rare in space.

here are some pictures.

Hope you enjoy.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

The Predator is pretty cool.

[dave76]

Aerges, please is there any progress ? thanks

[TLTeo]

It's going to take a long time, we're very very unlikely to hear much before they release the F1M

[dave76]

20 hours ago, TLTeo said:

It's going to take a long time, we're very very unlikely to hear much before they release the F1M

agree , just curios...

[LeCuvier]

It gives me the creeps when I remember the nights when, as a kid, I heard them flying low over our place (I lived a bit east of the Nörvenich air base) in landing approach for hours, during exercises. I'll never forget the mournfull low-pitched howling of their engines. Near the Nörvenich air base there was the ruin of a sugar factory where one of them had punched a big gaping hole through the last wall standing. What a widow maker that F-104G was! Once a whole flight of them dived straight into the lignite strip mine nearby. We had a saying like "how do you get a Starfighter? Buy a little piece of land and wait!". Yet it seems the pilots loved them, so maybe I'll buy it...

Edited March 13 by LeCuvier

[LePaul]

Any updates on the Starfighter?

One of my favorites.  I spent an afternoon at the Palm Springs Air Museum where they have an F-14, F-104 and other birds I couldn't arrange to bring home 

Edited April 19 by LePaul