Best place to find F-4E cockpit blueprints?

[_BringTheReign_]

Hi Folks, 

In anticipation of the upcoming F-4E release, I am trying to get a jump start on the cockpit dimensions. Does anyone know of a good source for F-4E cockpit blueprints with seat placement, eye line, recline angle, etc? 
(I know there is the Diesel thread with the measuring tape which is a fantastic resource, as well as the scanned ref coming from Heatblur - just want to get a jump start with the planning) 
Thanks!

[Bucic]

Hi BTR!

I only found this and I doubt you're going to find what the '18 guys get in abundance. I'd use DCS ModelViewer in Orthographic view mode to get whatever dimensions you need based on a reference of your choice. I'd make sure to note the raw values as well in case it turns out your reference was slightly off.

At least that's what I rely on with F-5E.

[Biggus]

It's a real struggle at the moment, I've been going through the same thing.  No luck with much of the seat data beyond Diesel Thunder's incredibly helpful thread.

For the consoles, I've been working from the publicly available 1F-4E-1 but it's very poor in terms of resolution, so I've been supplementing that with the 1F-4G-1 from 1993 which is much higher resolution, and I've been using some guesswork based on images I've seen of earlier F-4E and even F-4D panels.  Even then, there's block-to-block differences and configuration changes as the plane was upgraded through the years.  Some of the recent teaser images helped enormously with the left side console layout, but there's still plenty of mystery.

Fingers crossed that we get the scanned reference from HB in the not too distant future.

[_BringTheReign_]

@Bucic @Biggus Thank you both, looks like we will just need to wait a little while longer!

@IronMike no chance we can bribe you for early access to the dimensional cockpit scans? I promise we won't tell @Cobra847

[IronMike]

11 hours ago, _BringTheReign_ said:

@Bucic @Biggus Thank you both, looks like we will just need to wait a little while longer!

@IronMike no chance we can bribe you for early access to the dimensional cockpit scans? I promise we won't tell @Cobra847

The best thing to avoid being bribable, is to always accept the bribe, but never deliver. So yes, ofc, feel free to bribe me any time.

[_BringTheReign_]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:18 PM, IronMike said:

The best thing to avoid being bribable, is to always accept the bribe, but never deliver. So yes, ofc, feel free to bribe me any time.

That's a risk I am willing to take! 

Take your pick and I will happily ship to you (not a joke!)

Option A: Styled after the recent cockpit screenshots from your discord:

Option B: Regular build

Edited September 5, 2023 by _BringTheReign_
formatting

[Extranajero]

One option - not the best but still do-able, would be to buy a Tamiya 1/32 scale F-4E and a set of vernier calipers. Build the cockpit and measure.
There might well be a scan of an F-4E cockpit on one of the 3D asset sites - it's unlikely to be free but then cockpit building isn't cheap.
The panels themselves are fairly easy, just take the Dzus standard width between the mounting screws and scale everything from that.

My F-4J cockpit was built in an afternoon - constructed from cardboard with the gauges replicated in crayon. But I was 6, so not too bad an effort

[Bucic]

1 hour ago, Extranajero said:

One option - not the best but still do-able, would be to buy a Tamiya 1/32 scale F-4E and a set of vernier calipers. Build the cockpit and measure.
There might well be a scan of an F-4E cockpit on one of the 3D asset sites - it's unlikely to be free but then cockpit building isn't cheap.
The panels themselves are fairly easy, just take the Dzus standard width between the mounting screws and scale everything from that.

My F-4J cockpit was built in an afternoon - constructed from cardboard with the gauges replicated in crayon. But I was 6, so not too bad an effort

i don't mean to sound like a broken record, but this doesn't even come close to what you can achieve with DCS ModelViewer. I reckon anyone in doubt simply doesn't know what orthographic view means

Edited September 6, 2023 by Bucic

[Extranajero]

1 hour ago, Bucic said:

i don't mean to sound like a broken record, but this doesn't even come close to what you can achieve with DCS ModelViewer. I reckon anyone in doubt simply doesn't know what orthographic view means

 

That'll be very useful for him then, he can just plug the 3D model that he hasn't got into DCS ModelViewer.

Does 'orthographic' mean the ability to view files that you don't have access to ?

[Bucic]

6 hours ago, Extranajero said:

That'll be very useful for him then, he can just plug the 3D model that he hasn't got into DCS ModelViewer.

Does 'orthographic' mean the ability to view files that you don't have access to ?

No need to get Amish like that There's a simplified F-4 available already with the final release coming soon (?). Isn't the 3d cockpit file compatible with DCS ModelViewer at least in case of the simplified one?

[Extranajero]

15 hours ago, Bucic said:

No need to get Amish like that There's a simplified F-4 available already with the final release coming soon (?). Isn't the 3d cockpit file compatible with DCS ModelViewer at least in case of the simplified one?

You do realise that if you take a DCS 3D model and load it into an engineering CAD program that the units of measurement bear no relationship to the real world ?
The Hind cockpit is modelled to be about 3 real world millimetres long for instance. It doesn't matter in video game terms, but it'll matter a lot once you try to use it to make a cockpit, assuming it's for you and not your pet microbe.

That's OK though because you can scale the model, but how do you know when you have the scale correct ? you need at least one known dimension to work to.
For the majority of western aircraft the easiest thing to use is the width of the panels on the side consoles, they are almost always 146mm because the mounting holes follow a standard spacing.
For a Russian aircraft you can use the clock. The bezel is 86mm in diameter, or at least the one I've got is.

[Bucic]

5 hours ago, Extranajero said:

You do realise that if you take a DCS 3D model and load it into an engineering CAD program that the units of measurement bear no relationship to the real world ?
The Hind cockpit is modelled to be about 3 real world millimetres long for instance. It doesn't matter in video game terms, but it'll matter a lot once you try to use it to make a cockpit, assuming it's for you and not your pet microbe.

That's OK though because you can scale the model, but how do you know when you have the scale correct ? you need at least one known dimension to work to.
For the majority of western aircraft the easiest thing to use is the width of the panels on the side consoles, they are almost always 146mm because the mounting holes follow a standard spacing.
For a Russian aircraft you can use the clock. The bezel is 86mm in diameter, or at least the one I've got is.

So what exactly seems to be the problem, madam?

[Extranajero]

1 hour ago, Bucic said:

So what exactly seems to be the problem, madam?

Get ModelViewer to produce some G Code for me and I'll tell you, sweetie

[Bucic]

12 minutes ago, Extranajero said:

Get ModelViewer to produce some G Code for me and I'll tell you, sweetie

Start a new topic then. This one is about cockpit dimensions.

[Extranajero]

1 hour ago, Bucic said:

Start a new topic then. This one is about cockpit dimensions.

The point I'm making - my adorable little cupcake - is that to do anything useful with the model you have to import it into a 3D Cad program that works in real world units.
Then you can produce old school dimensioned drawings, or eventually G Code, or STL files.

[Bucic]

4 minutes ago, Extranajero said:

you have to import it into a 3D Cad program

Yeah, I'm out.

[Diesel_Thunder]

I took a bunch of measurements the old fashioned way and posted a thread about it. It’s from a D model, but I believe the cockpit dimensions are the same as an E. Hope this helps!