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What CM to best evade SA-19 / 2K22 Tunguska

twistking

By twistking
in DCS: F-16C Viper

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twistking

twistking

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What works well against the SA-19? From my limited testing it seems that both jamming (barrage mode) and chaffing helps a little bit, but since it's SACLOS (if i'm not mistaken) i think that "kinetically" evading the missile should also be possible to some extend.
Does barrage jamming and chaffing actually help, or did i experience a CM placebo? What's best to do when you actually realize that a SA-19 has fired a missile?

Bonus question: Sometimes the SA-19 seems to stop tracking/engaging and disables it's radar for some minutes even though enemy AC are still in range and not all missiles are expanded yet. I still assume it's doing a reload of the missiles then? I guess it would be more clever to wait with reload until all 8 missiles were expanded though...

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=617= Evil

=617= Evil

Posted
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20 minutes ago, twistking said:

What works well against the SA-19? From my limited testing it seems that both jamming (barrage mode) and chaffing helps a little bit, but since it's SACLOS (if i'm not mistaken) i think that "kinetically" evading the missile should also be possible to some extend.
Does barrage jamming and chaffing actually help, or did i experience a CM placebo? What's best to do when you actually realize that a SA-19 has fired a missile?

You are correct, the SA19 is optically guided. To my knowledge no countermeasures have an effect. Violent evasive maneuvers to overwhelm guidance and steering are the way to do it. There's a reason the Tunguska is so deadly. I freakin' hate those things. 

Get out of it's max range (4nm) and/or get above its max altitude of 16k feet. 


Edited by =617= Evil
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twistking

twistking

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1 hour ago, =617= Evil said:

You are correct, the SA19 is optically guided. To my knowledge no countermeasures have an effect. Violent evasive maneuvers to overwhelm guidance and steering are the way to do it. There's a reason the Tunguska is so deadly. I freakin' hate those things. 

Get out of it's max range (4nm) and/or get above its max altitude of 16k feet. 

 

i would assume that the gunner is able to employ some radar FCS augmentation while aiming visually. this could be useful for better hit probabilty at longer ranges and/or when visibility is bad. of course, we don't know if that is modelled in DCS. maybe i'll test at night and see if if my RWR gets hit differently then.
for daylight engagement i will conclude (for now) that CMs are more of a placebo against the Grison...

ps: im sooo looking forward to the upcoming RWR "raw" mode (forgot the proper name). this will probably help answer some of those questions...
 

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Polo

Polo

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Your best countermeasure is to get as much distance from the launcher and missile as quickly as possible. Or put a piece of dirt between the missile and you.

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twistking

twistking

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tested again at night and SA-19 behaviour seemed identical. wouldn't that mean that it does use radar augmentation for the SACLOS missiles? optically aimed systems generally suffer heavily at night in DCS - the SA-19 does not. wouldn't that then mean that countermeasures could have a real effect?

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs

 

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Hobel

Hobel

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Posted (edited)
Am 7.9.2023 um 19:57 schrieb twistking:

tested again at night and SA-19 behaviour seemed identical. wouldn't that mean that it does use radar augmentation for the SACLOS missiles? optically aimed systems generally suffer heavily at night in DCS - the SA-19 does not. wouldn't that then mean that countermeasures could have a real effect?

That is correct night should not give any restrictions.

With the radar, the sa19 detects the targets, turns on them and the gunner then steers the missile probably Manual(or with EO support?) into the target, we assume that the vehicle has night vision capabilities.


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twistking

twistking

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1 hour ago, Hobel said:

That is correct night should not give any restrictions.

With the radar, the sa19 detects the targets, turns on them and the gunner then steers the missile probably Manuel (or with EO support?) into the target, we assume that the vehicle has night vision capabilities.

ok. i did not think of night vision. makes sense. thanks!

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs

 

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Hextopia

Hextopia

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On 9/8/2023 at 5:49 AM, Hobel said:

That is correct night should not give any restrictions.

With the radar, the sa19 detects the targets, turns on them and the gunner then steers the missile probably Manual(or with EO support?) into the target, we assume that the vehicle has night vision capabilities.

 

In a technical sense, I believe the way units in DCS still work is that night only gives penalties to a unit to "spot" a unit, but once any sensor on the unit "spots" them, the 'Mk1 eyeball' sensor can take over and maintain track of the unit (assuming it is a valid sensor to provide guidance for the weapon the unit is using).

So the Tunguska can pick up a unit on radar, and 'pass' the track to the visual tracker, since it's a valid sensor for the SACLOS missiles it has.


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twistking

twistking

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20 hours ago, SickSidewinder9 said:

The best way to deal with a Tunguska is to just stay at least 12,000' above it.

Do you know why the ceiling is "only" 12,000? Seems a bit low compared to the range of the system?
Wikipedia says that the radar can track to only 12.000 ft altitude, but i think that makes no sense. Generally speaking, systems with similar range tend to have higher ceiling, no?

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs

 

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SickSidewinder9

SickSidewinder9

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On 9/15/2023 at 10:22 AM, twistking said:

Do you know why the ceiling is "only" 12,000? Seems a bit low compared to the range of the system?
Wikipedia says that the radar can track to only 12.000 ft altitude, but i think that makes no sense. Generally speaking, systems with similar range tend to have higher ceiling, no?

maybe I'm thinking of the 15.

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probad

probad

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limitation may not be so much dictated by the kinematic potential of the missile but by the capabilities of the tracking and guidance antennae. from my reading a lot of these sams have maximum elevation limits for their antenna and so cover more of a torus than a hemisphere


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