A NEW DLC CAMPAIGN FOR THE Mi-8?

[CHPL]

 THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE

Compared to the UH-1, the Mi-8 is much more complex, and the player has to switch between all three seats for the startup. For me, this is almost a NO-GO in the campaign.

In the meantime, I have worked intensively on the start process and found an acceptable solution.

On request, 2 Russian-speaking comrades from the community got in touch, including a current Mi-8 pilot, because a Russian localization for a Russian model was another essential requirement.

The decision has therefore been made: before STEELRAIN, the 3rd UH-1 campaign, there will be a Mi-8 campaign with the working name STEPPENWOLF.

It will certainly take some time, but we will keep you regularly informed about the progress here in the forum, especially on our DISCORD. https://discord.gg/CXCA7rf

With this decision, we will not continue the thread here but move it to the official LOW-LEVEL HEAVEN section.

 РЕШЕНИЕ ПРИНЯТО

 

По сравнению с UH-1, Ми-8 гораздо сложнее, и игроку приходится переключаться между всеми 3 креслами при старте. Для меня это практически NO-GO в кампании. Тем временем я интенсивно работал над процессом запуска и нашел приемлемое решение. По моей просьбе на связь вышли 2 русскоговорящих товарища из сообщества, в том числе действующий пилот Ми-8. Потому что русская локализация для русской модели была еще одним существенным требованием. Поэтому было принято решение: перед STEELRAIN, 3-й кампанией UH-1, будет кампания Ми-8 с рабочим названием Степной Волк.

Это, конечно, займет некоторое время, но мы будем регулярно информировать вас о ходе работ здесь, на форуме, но особенно на нашем DISCORD. https://discord.gg/CXCA7rf

В связи с этим решением мы не будем продолжать эту тему здесь, а перенесем ее в официальный раздел LOW-LEVEL HEAVEN.

 

 LA DÉCISION A ÉTÉ PRISE

Comparé au UH-1, le Mi-8 est beaucoup plus complexe, et le joueur doit passer d'un siège à l'autre pour le démarrage. Pour moi, c'est presque un NO-GO dans la campagne.

Entre-temps, j'ai travaillé intensivement sur le processus de démarrage et j'ai trouvé une solution acceptable. Sur demande, 2 camarades russophones de la communauté ont pris contact, dont un pilote de Mi-8 en exercice. Car une localisation en russe pour un modèle russe était une autre exigence essentielle. La décision a donc été prise : avant STEELRAIN, la 3ème campagne UH-1, il y aura une campagne Mi-8 avec le nom de travail STEPPENWOLF.

It will certainly take some time, but we will keep you regularly informed about the progress here in the forum, especially on our DISCORD. https://discord.gg/CXCA7rf

Avec cette décision, nous ne continuerons pas le fil de discussion ici mais le déplacerons dans la section officielle LOW-LEVEL HEAVEN.

 

 

 DIE ENTSCHEIDUNG IST GETROFFEN

Die Mi-8 ist im Vergleich mit der UH-1 nicht nur wesentlich komplexer, für den Startup muss der Player zwischen allen 3 Sitzen wechsel. Für mich ist das in der Kampagne nahezu ein NO GO.

Habe mich zwischenzeitlich intensive insbesondere mit dem Startvorgang beschäftigt und eine für mich akzeptable Lösung gefunden. Auf Anfrage haben sich auch geleich 2 Russisch sprechende Kammeraden aus der Community gemeldet, darunter ein aktueller Mi-8 Pilot.

Denn eine Russische Lokalisierung für ein Rusisches Muster war eine weitere Grundvoraussetzung. Die Entscheidung ist damit gefallennoch vor STEELRAIN der 3. UH-1 Kampagne wird es eine Mi-8 Kampagne, Arbeitsname STEPPENWOLF geben.

Es wird mit Sicherheit einige Zeit in Anspruch nehmen, aber wir werden euch hier im Forum , besenders jedoch auf unserem DISCORD https://discord.gg/CXCA7rf regelmäßig über die Vortschritte auf dem laufenden halten.

Mit dieser Entscheidung werden wir den Thread hier nicht fortsetzen sonder in den offiziellen LOW-LEVEL HEAVEN Bereich verlagern.

 

[LuseKofte]

I sit in the crew chief position during the startup sequence. There is no need to sit anywhere else for these tasks. 

[CHPL]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb LuseKofte:

I sit in the crew chief position during the startup sequence. There is no need to sit anywhere else for these tasks. 

This is possible in DCS, but does not correspond to the actual procedure.

To fly the mission, you still have to switch to the pilot or co-pilot seat. That's okay if there's no other way.

 If the co-pilot has an itchy ear, he is sure to scratch it himself and not leave it to the crew chief. 

So expect that as a pilot you will only have the tasks that correspond to your position. (Of course, only as far as I can manage this in the ME). 

[YoYo]

Ok, I also don't understand what the problem is. Of course, if we are talking about the SP campaign. Multi ok, it could be a problem. After all, we currently have many campaigns for Mi-8 and SP, I have flown several times and it has never been a problem for me to switch to another seat for a moment. Of course, I understand and respect the decisions, but you will have the same experience in CH-47 for example. 

[MAXsenna]

I never switch seats from the pilot seat, unless I need to change the angle/distance on the doppler. Flare program or to tune that one radio for homing. Only because I can't really see the displays. The buttons are no issues.
What we really need in the Hip are two voice activated Petroviches with excellent voice overs. I'm positive we'll see it some time in the future.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Hiob]

The Mi-8 is the ONE module, where everything just works. Switching pilot seats during flight without messing up the controls/ trim? Check. Trimming without wobbles? Check. Operating all switches and dials from any seat? Check.

I can’t see a problem here either. If we are talking about SP. The player impersonates all two or three crew members anyway (afaik the flight engineer/middle seat is often unoccupied in real life).

[CHPL]

Please don't misunderstand me, but I'm happy about the discussion. It motivates me, and I am also very grateful for different opinions and suggestions.

And, of course, you are right; the Mi-8 works almost perfectly in DCS, and there are no technical problems.

The problem is me—my very personal demand.
You may not care about switching between seats or flipping switches that are out of the pilot's reach. There is no problem using the mouse in DCS.
But I do care, and if it can be avoided, I will do it as much as possible.

Whether you consider it necessary or not is relatively irrelevant to me. 

Also, in Spring 2025 and STORMFRONT, there were hundreds of hours of work on little things that nobody had noticed or would be missed, but I would, and that's the only thing that really matters to me.
Sorry to say that so openly. I hope you like my work, but if not? That's life; there is no reason not to be friends. 

And yes, some campaign creators don't see it that way and offer relatively easy-to-create missions that are more or less easy to fulfill, some scripted from start to finish with excellent voiceovers and atmosphere independent of the model.

This allows you to create campaigns across the model range, as the module is only the carrier for the packaging.
I must first familiarize myself with the Mi-8, which will take several hundred hours.
I've already been working on the extensive checklist alone for several weeks. Of course, there will also be a simple one.

That's not a criticism; on the contrary, they probably match the taste of most players in DCS and do a great job, especially from a business point of view.

Of course, I also want as many people as possible to enjoy my work, but as far as the style and standards are concerned, only one standard counts. 
First and foremost, it has to be how I want it to be, as close as possible to the real thing, on the ground and in the air.

The seats are not changed, and the pilot on the left does not switch batteries, inverters, or even the exterior lighting on and off. 

I also like good voiceovers, but they don't have this significance for me. And without wanting to offend anyone, many people consider TopGun a realistic representation of reality regarding voiceovers. 
Yes, jet jockeys flying under drugs and adrenaline sometimes let off steam, but the one who keeps a cool head usually survives.

You may be surprised at how little emotionally charged American English is actually understood by many people.   Even those who think they can speak and understand English quickly reach their limits. If this were not the case, text overlays would be unnecessary and annoying. 

Once again, which is also why I communicate this so openly: it's perfectly fine to have different opinions and demands; my approach and priorities may differ.

For the player to be able to follow the mission, a lot of guidance and explanation is needed, packed as realistically as possible into the communication in the cockpit and with stations outside. This forces me to make compromises not only because of skill and recourses, e.g., with the voiceovers, which I hope are still good, but they will probably never sound as good as they do in other campaigns. 
On the other hand, Spring 2025 has a French and German localization and German voiceovers, and the Mi-8 campaign will get a Russian localization.

I look forward to your feedback and criticism.

But even better about suggestions and support, because what many may not be aware of.

Campaign creators are a one-man show with more or less support and do this mostly besides their real jobs.  

So, thank you for the flowers,  but would you please remove the flower pots before you throw them.  

Edited December 23, 2023 by CHPL

[Hiob]

Hey, you do you. You‘re the creator, and can of course do it as you want. Perfectly fine. That wasn’t meant as criticism but only to point out, that there is no technical problem in the way. Perhaps I misunderstood your last post.

[LuseKofte]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

never switch seats from the pilot seat

Well we all do things as we like. I always sit on the copilot seat if Doppler is engage. Then you can follow the drift. 
But in this case mission maker want us to sit put in pilot seat. And I am not arguing with him, I am getting curious on how it works and salute him for his efforts 

[CHPL]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Hiob:

Hey, you do you. You‘re the creator, and can of course do it as you want. Perfectly fine. That wasn’t meant as criticism but only to point out, that there is no technical problem in the way. Perhaps I misunderstood your last post.

Don't worry, as I said I look forward to every contribution and discussion. Every opinion is welcome. 
And nothing is worse than nobody being interested. 
In the end, criticism helps you move forward and ensures that your work continues to develop.

On the one hand, of course, I want to attract attention, but on the other, I don't want to raise false expectations.
We all know that. We watch a trailer and are excited, only to be disappointed by the movie itself. e.g. NAPOLEON 

Precisely because many people are looking for light entertainment in DCS, it's important to know what to expect. 
Your feedback is very important to me because I try to take it into consideration. With a little effort, it is also possible to let the player go through the checklist, or alternatively to use autostart.

In my UH-1 campaigns, I had feedback on shutdown. After startup, according to the checklist, the missions were actually finished after landing, and this player wanted to shut down the aircraft at the end as well.
I made this possible. Today, you can end the mission after landing, or it ends by itself when the battery is switched off after shutdown.
I didn't do it for him, but because he was right. If I value the start procedure, I can't ignore the end.

Sometimes, you need somebody from the outside to gain insides.

So please don't hold back with your comments and reactions. The ending with the flower pots wasn't because I felt attacked but because I was supposed to be a comedian. 

 

 

[CHPL]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb LuseKofte:

Well we all do things as we like. I always sit on the copilot seat if Doppler is engage. Then you can follow the drift. 
But in this case mission maker want us to sit put in pilot seat. And I am not arguing with him, I am getting curious on how it works and salute him for his efforts 

 There is a high chance of using the Doppler and flying from the right seat. But in my opinion and according to my demands Roles will change from the beginning. Nothing prevents the pilots from switching seats on prior agreements.  And pilot flying may be the guy on the right no problem with that. In fact, this is actually a realistic scenario.
I see a ton of work ahead. 

[Presidium]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:14 AM, frumpy said:

I've not flown Worlds Apart due to having to shoot at some point. I don't even know how to operate weapons in most modules. There is just so much unreflected hatred and suffering out there, I don't need to simulate this in my sparetime.

Yes Sir!!
100% totally agree with that!!

[CHPL]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Presidium:

Yes Sir!!
100% totally agree with that!!

I can't argue with that either, and you did a great job with I LOVE THIS JOB, and you delivered a civilian campaign for DCS that I can only recommend to everyone.
I would be happy if DCS would offer a little more space for the purely civilian campaign. What you need as MOD for your campaign would be part of DCS. This would not influence the main program in any way but would certainly expand the market.

But, there is always a but. The police in the USA are no less armed than the army and make heavy use of it.
But as you have proven, you can get by without weapons. 

I myself see it more as an additional strategic level and not as a normalization or even glorification of violence. 
In addition to controlling the aircraft, maintaining an overview of a complex situation is a challenge in itself. 

But like you, I also invest a lot of time and effort in the new update to divide challenges into digestible morsels for as many people as possible. 
For my wife, I'm a hero when I take the garbage outside without being asked, and rightly so, because it takes me almost superhuman strength to do this.  

It's always in the eye of the beholder.

Edited December 28, 2023 by CHPL

[LuseKofte]

1 hour ago, CHPL said:

I LOVE THIS JOB

Is this a campaign I do not know off?

I do prefer civilian task too. Oil field campaign is one of my favorite. Reflected lost paradise first six missions too. But I do not mind a toned down realistic military campaign either. 

[CHPL]

@LuseKofte

 

You find it there

 

 

http://www.gamesfromhell.com/DCS/

 

[CHPL]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb LuseKofte:

But I do not mind a toned down realistic military campaign either. 

Please don't confuse realistic with "military = use of weapons."      

Especially where there is a lot of fighting, realism is usually sought in vain.
Even in Worlds Apart SPRING 2025, the shooting missions are mainly about not getting hit and still carrying out the actual transport mission. Only in 2 out of 11 missions is there an active attack to destroy.

According to current planning, the Mi-8 campaign will also largely get by without the active use of weapons.

[LuseKofte]

2 hours ago, CHPL said:

Please don't confuse realistic with "military = use of weapons."      

Well my native language is not English. And I do get it that action filled combat missions are made. They are challenging. But to me they make me believe I am the only one to fight the war. If I order my wingman to join the fight , he do something stupid and get shot down. And I normally do the mission over again. It put me off a bit. You do not feel being a part of an army, more like you are the army. 
Reflected managed this in lost paradise well. Because you was part of something and the battles was small. In pandemic campaigns you are more or less a key for the outcome. And that is not realistic

[Hiob]

I LOVE THIS JOB is easily amongst the best (free) user created content ever made for DCS. I love the approach to demonstrate what is possible in DCS beyond military stuff (though I don’t mind blowing stuff up).

The only gripe I have with I LOVE THIS JOB is that it features the Huey. Which of course fits the content best, but I simply vastly prefer the Hip over the Huey….

So, a new Mi-8 campaign is super welcomed! 

[LuseKofte]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

prefer the Hip over the Huey

Me too in a way, but glad for a brake in the Huey 

[PawlaczGMD]

Yes, a Mi-8 campaign would be good. I would personally prefer it to be more combat-focused (ofc the Mi-8 is not meant to shoot stuff primarily, but at least you can have hot LZ, CSAR, etc.). That is because we already have a lot of civil-focused campaigns.

 

And I think that the Mi-8 is rather simple to fly, actually. There are a million switches, but most are just set on startup and work. If you automate radio navigation and parts of startup, the need to switch seats could be almost eliminated. Doppler nav is the main reason to switch to copilot, but it could possibly be reduced with voice lines giving directions.

Edited February 18 by PawlaczGMD

[CHPL]

@PawlaczGMD
 

Thank you for your suggestions.

When it comes to the use of weapons in the Mi-8, the community is very divided into two camps. Most tend to reject it.
Nevertheless, it will, of course, not work without it.
As you have already mentioned, a hot landing zone is a good compromise.

I will try to take all suggestions into account. Ultimately, however, it will be decided during the development of the missions and the story whether and how many weapon deployments or hot landing zones occur.

[PawlaczGMD]

2 minutes ago, CHPL said:

@PawlaczGMD
 

Thank you for your suggestions.

When it comes to the use of weapons in the Mi-8, the community is very divided into two camps. Most tend to reject it.
Nevertheless, it will, of course, not work without it.
As you have already mentioned, a hot landing zone is a good compromise.

I will try to take all suggestions into account. Ultimately, however, it will be decided during the development of the missions and the story whether and how many weapon deployments or hot landing zones occur.

From some limited combat practice from me, attacking infantry and light vehicles is totally doable and effective. I think anything up to Humvees or equivalent is a viable target. And don't forget your gunners, which don't require you aiming, and are quite effective against the above targets. 

I would agree that destroying stuff should not be the focus of Mi-8's missions, but you could certainly have some of it. Some enemies could be not primary targets, but simply threats to self-defend from, like maybe you can help clearing an LZ. Hinds could do the heavy lifting, and the Mi-8 helps out. A reasonable and partially optional amount of combat would spice things up.