Guest ruggbutt Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thats fine If you like plastic........ I hear ya. I couldn't stand my plastic mouse so I bought a metal one........... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogun Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Absolutely agree with Zuki. I did the same – tested all of them and came to the conclusion – for the LOCON – CH suite (CH Fighterstick USB, CH Pro Throttle USB and CH Pro Pedals USB) is the best. The only problem – I just could not get used to CH Pedals in IL-2. So, for now I am back to Saitek EVO+CH Pro Throttle USB combination. Throttle may feel plasticy, not "real", but extremely convenient, easy to get used to. Cougar is nowhere near – overpriced, overhyped @#%$. You can do more with a kind word and a gun, than with just kind word alone. - Al Capone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA-Blaze Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Absolutely agree with Zuki. I did the same – tested all of them and came to the conclusion – for the LOCON – CH suite (CH Fighterstick USB, CH Pro Throttle USB and CH Pro Pedals USB) is the best. The only problem – I just could not get used to CH Pedals in IL-2. So, for now I am back to Saitek EVO+CH Pro Throttle USB combination. Throttle may feel plasticy, not "real", but extremely convenient, easy to get used to. Cougar is nowhere near – overpriced, overhyped @#%$. _________________ I personally don't agree but to each his own.... :lol: ~S~ Blaze intel Cor i7-6700K ASUS ROG MAX VIII Extreme G.Skill TridentZ Series 32 GB Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SATA II ASUS GTX 1080/DIRECTX 12 Windows 10 PRO Thrustmaster Warthog Oculus Rift VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafer Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 Yeah... Nothing beats cheap made in China cast metal. :lol: ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA-Blaze Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Its not exactly cheap, my man, and for that matter everthing seems to be made in China or ahhh????? Thailand or in Asia somewhere these days ..... As far as cast metal I think that most of the real flight sticks are cast metal.... Allso if anything I think that this was a cheap shot that you just took.... This thread looks like one of the threads that you always seem to start over at the UBI forums.... I think that the mods should have noticed this thread a long time ago.... OVER AND OUT!!! Blaze intel Cor i7-6700K ASUS ROG MAX VIII Extreme G.Skill TridentZ Series 32 GB Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SATA II ASUS GTX 1080/DIRECTX 12 Windows 10 PRO Thrustmaster Warthog Oculus Rift VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafer Posted March 9, 2005 Author Share Posted March 9, 2005 huh? Err...for your info. The 'cheap cast metal' bit was a joke...notice the smilie. And, I never started a poll anywhere! Sure, I asked which is better before but people changed their minds all the time, so I start a poll to see which is most popular NOW. TODAY for LOMAC PLAYERS. Cheap shot at what? I honestly can't decide which to get and I deifinitely can't afford both. If I could I'd buy both in a heartbeat. And if I wanted to start something I'd go to cougar world and do it there. The dilemma for me is: 1. I prefer the arch type throttle of the Cougar and its look 2. I perfer the Cougar heavy spring vs CH soft spring 3. Over all, I like the Cougar for its coolness BUT it sucks out of the box, so I'm considering CH. I want to be convinced to buy the Cougar if the poll shows more people using it. Cuz then it means TM will support it for a while. But it looks like I'll be buying CH after all. But like I said, I'd buy the Cougar just to own it. This is like a toy to me, u know. Lighten up, dude! EDIT: This is the best way I can explain my dilemma. In my language we have a saying: You want to marry the older sister but damnit, the younger one is cute, too. And that's another topic that I might start a poll about. My GF's younger sister is a hottie. mmm ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revvin Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Allso if anything I think that this was a cheap shot that you just took.... Did'nt seem any worse than the reference to plastic in your reply before his, at least his carried a smiley face. To simply call them plastic disregards CH's 25 year experience in producing industrial strength components in their OEM division. They have taken this knowledge and applied it to their PC/MAC flight sim products which is clear to see to anyone who has used the CH gear for more than 5 minutes. As for the Cougar in my experience, well there are some very nice mods available, all within my budget when I owned a few Cougars but there was the problem...I owned a few because they kept failing. One was dead on arrival (suspected PCB) the second developed a fault on the throttle PCB while the third had a few throttle axis issues but also developed a broken speedbrake switch which makes you wonder about the care Thrustmaster are putting into this project as it was a fault diagnosed quite early in the life of the Cougar but it appears that users still have to do this 'fix' themselves. The fourth Cougar I sold because while I liked the spring tension and the programmability was great (since been equalled by the CH Control Manager software) I lost all faith in the hardware. Even if I did spend on one of the mods which was inevitable I still had grave doubts over the wiring quality and the PCB's as they had failed me already. Maybe if thise faults had not manifested themselves I'd be playing with a Cougar with HALL sensors and Evenstrain gimbals but it ruined my enjoyment of the sims I played as I calibrated, re-calibrated then wondered what was going to fail me next (I only calibrate my CH gear when I install a new version of Control Manager, other than that they go months without ever needing to touch it) The guy that bought my Cougar told me he had done so because the one shop he was planning on buying from where he bought his other flight sim gear did'nt have any in stock and were uncertain if they were going to continue selling the Cougar due to the number of returns they had. The shop I bought my Cougars from was very understanding and helpful but when they tried to repair the Speedbrake on my third Cougar themselves to save sending it back and causing me and Thrustmaster further bother they actually had to buy the part from TM even though they were trying to save them money! On top of the electronic problems I regularly wiped down my Cougar to get rid of the flecks of black paint that began peeling off around the handle of each of hte Cougar's I owned and each in time developed centre play though not as much as my well worn Saitek X36 it was more than I expected from a piece of kit costing so much. This however could have been fixed at my expense with one of the mods. I was surprised that even though the paint peeling problem was reported by a number of users in varying degree's it was never fixed by Thrustmaster in the 18 months that I used these sticks and received new ones each time they failed, I expected them to have cured this by perhaps changing the paint or improving the curing process. As you can see I was rather dissapointed by my Cougar experience as I'd bought into the hype and waited patiently for my Cougar even when the dates slipped (but then how many products make their release date these days?) The stick and throttle felt nice, I'd hoped they would produce more handles for the Cougar which was the idea behind the detachable handle but how commited are Guillemot/Thrustmaster to this product when years later there is still no sign of these handles and a lot of the original design team appear to have been laid off. I hope their PC flight controller division are not just in maintenance mode, the more competition for Saitek and CH the better for us consumers. Take that however you want, it's just my honest experience of long term use of two of the PC's high end controllers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 its interesting the number of replies in this thread referring to poor quality in TM and not one complaint about CH quality. Still I allways knew that fom 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA-Blaze Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hell it seems to me that you have had some very unfortunate situations happen to you regarding the Cougars that you've owned...... I seem to also remember you posting someing similar in other forums as well... Personally I really don't like plastic joy sticks and as far as that being a cheap shot, I don't think so.... I truly feel that metal adds to the total immersion of the simulator more so then plastic no matter how you look at it..... I've had my Cougar for 2 years now and have had none of those issues that you mentioned....... That issue that you experienced with the paint comeing off in clumps, that hasn't happened to me....... The jet black paint that Thrust Master uses now is of a very hard epoxy that looks as good now as the day I opened up the box..... There was a little bit of ware on some the grey control buttons but that just added to the realisim of the stick...... Well me being a former clean Marine :wink: I called Thrust Master and asked if I could purchase new buttons. So they actually sent me all new buttons and all I had to do was pay for the shipping now thats great longevity and awsome support..... :lol: (that deserves a smile) Ok, I do clean out my pots every so often which I don't mind, I reminds me of my duty Stateside when checking out my .45 from the Armorour weekly for cleaning..... I'm in the proccess now of purchaseing the mod that IJ offers which was just developed recently its called the Uber "NXT" and paired with the Hall sensors it's absolutly the best joy stick around bar none... (See Cougar Forum, Mods and Tweaks thread)...... The Evenstrain mod is no longer available as the developer has some very grave personal problems and has discontinued production..... And as far as the the ability to change stick handles, well this was put aside by Thrust Master because the cost of produceing these became reprehensable, but theres still hope as IJ seems have indicated interest in this project at a later date.... So the Cougar with the "NXT" mod with Hall sensors, the Hall sensor mod kit for the throttle, and paired with the Simped Rudder system will give you the one of the best control systems on the market today and you'll be an awsome advesary in Lock on or whatever flight Sim you chose to fly at the time...... Oh and I almost forgot theres a speed break mod now available as well... Now this is a very expensive way to go but flight simming hardware isn't cheap..... But there are other far more expensive hobbys like car restoration for one...... As far as the wireing and PC boards your out of line there, I worked in Aviation electronis at one time and find the quality here second to none ... And I'm also in awe of the Foxy software, what a great product.... And as far as CH products experience with plastic, well more power to them but I'm quite happy with my Cougar and have no desire to try they're product.... :lol: :lol: ~S~ Blaze intel Cor i7-6700K ASUS ROG MAX VIII Extreme G.Skill TridentZ Series 32 GB Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SATA II ASUS GTX 1080/DIRECTX 12 Windows 10 PRO Thrustmaster Warthog Oculus Rift VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leafer Posted March 10, 2005 Author Share Posted March 10, 2005 You’re missing the point entirely. And I can relate to why but let's stick to out of the box version of the two. So saying a Cougar with all those expensive mods is the absolute best HOTAS bar none is like saying umm... it’s like saying...can’t think of an analogy at the moment. heh Forget the analogy and look at the facts. (Cougar $250 + Uber 2: $400 + Cub's Hall Sensors: 'I think' $180?) vs (CH stick: $150 +CH throttle: $150) Well, yeah, better prey that it’s better. But we're talking about for people like me who bitch and cry that he can barely afford the HOTAS itself. And from what I understand, they put high quality potention meters in their products. That would explain why I never had to clean them in my old CH sticks. So CH Hotas is the best out of the box, but a part of me still want EL COUGAR. As for SIMPED, yeah that is the best rudder money can buy. I’m talking precision flying/aiming at last! I owned that, too. The difference is quite obvious to my 6 year old CH rudder. heh But that thing cost $200+shipping? Do a search on my oldddd posts at cougar world and you'll see I had problem with @ss Hofmann sending me Simped with broken part. I even posted a picture of it. That's already bad enough, but that ef-ing guy didn't respond to any of my emails! NONE! He eventually sent me a replacement but it was a lil over a month. 6 weeks was it or was it more? Can't remember. Now, before anyone tells me it's a one man operation and he's busy blah blah. He did have time to reply all my emails prior to buying the product-Promptly. Don't take any of what I said the wrong way because I'm not dogging you. Just letting unsuspecting buyers aware of problems I had. I do plan on owning both one of these days. EDIT: One more thing. Sorry if I offended you, Blaze. was just having fun. And 1 USD = 38 Thai baths. And El leafer is jobless at the moment. heh ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ruggbutt Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I'm glad you're happy w/the Cougar. I personally could care less about metal or plastic. I have never not once seen anyone unhappy w/their plastic mouse or plastick keyboard. Fact is that I have only ever had to calibrate my CH stuff once!! I've never had to pull it apart and clean the pots. I've never had a piece break and when it was new I never had any wear on any of the pieces. Couple that w/CH's fantastic customer service and you have an unbeatable product. I have mucked around w/modded Cougars, they're nice. But after I got the shafteroo w/my stock one and the horrible customer service from TM I vowed never to buy their product again. And lest you forget you should not have to spend 500 bones to mod a stick to be as precise as the CH Fighterstick is out of the box. TM can take their overrated sticks and sell them to the rest of you guys that haven't been dumped on yet. If you screw me w/your product you never get another chance. Stop by the CH Hangar and see how they handle issues w/broken or worn out parts. It's a whole different concept than what I've seen from TM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA-Blaze Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Yes my Cougar is fine.... I've had none of the issues that you guys spoke of, therefore I don't really have any desire to try a plastic joy stick..... I'm not missing any points here, the control system that I'm useing is with out a dought very expensive and isn't for everyone..... And yes Leafer the prices that you've listed are slightly overinflated, but thats ok because this is still a really expensive system..... As far as adding a mod to my stick, well after all I just finished building a high end computer system just to run Lock on and calibrated my Philips 30" HDTV with power strip to use as a monitor, so adding Mods to my control system is exactly what I enjoy doing...... All this just adds to my Lock on experience.... Again to coin an old phrase " To Each His Own "....... :!: ~S~ Blaze intel Cor i7-6700K ASUS ROG MAX VIII Extreme G.Skill TridentZ Series 32 GB Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SATA II ASUS GTX 1080/DIRECTX 12 Windows 10 PRO Thrustmaster Warthog Oculus Rift VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ruggbutt Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Yes my Cougar is fine.... I've had none of the issues that you guys spoke of, therefore I don't really have any desire to try a plastic joy stick..... And therein lies the responses to your posts. The only complaint ever listed about CH is the stick is plastic. That's it. Nada none zilch about pots going bad, flat spots in the gimbals, broken switches, dirty pots/switches, bad customer service. The argument for the Cougar is quite thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA-Blaze Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 Come on Bro..... This is really getting us nowhere, its like discussing religon or politics... If your happy with your stick fine..... I just happen to like mine just the way it is out of the box..... As far as arguments go there really isn't one, I don't have any problems with my controller and thats that..... I like what I like and my mind is made up as I can see that yours is .... Lets act like mature individuals and respect each others opinions..... I have my reasons as you do....... I just haven't experienced things that you've gone through except for cleaning out my pots once maybe every 6 months..... Thats why I'm replaceing them with the Halls....... I've also made other points in my posts as well that are very legitimate points of view and I'm not going to change camps for no reason at all.... Blaze intel Cor i7-6700K ASUS ROG MAX VIII Extreme G.Skill TridentZ Series 32 GB Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SATA II ASUS GTX 1080/DIRECTX 12 Windows 10 PRO Thrustmaster Warthog Oculus Rift VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ruggbutt Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I'm not trying to get you to "change camps". I was merely stating that the facts regarding your arguments against CH gear. I've owned the X36, X45, Cougar and the CH gear. I was making my case from the side that I've owend them all. Most Cougar owners haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch60 Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 I use these input devices and I am very very happy with them :!: The all are USB and have very good software that comes with them. CH Products full HOTAS setup TrackIR 3 Pro i9 13900KS (H150i), RTX 4090, 64 GB RAM @ 6000 MHz CL30, TM Warthog HOTAS + MFD's, MFG Crosswind, LG 48GQ900, Valve Index VR, TrackIR 5, Win11 Pro x64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnzacPT Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 I'm not trying to get you to "change camps". I was merely stating that the facts regarding your arguments against CH gear. I've owned the X36, X45, Cougar and the CH gear. I was making my case from the side that I've owend them all. Most Cougar owners haven't. owning a Cougar almost a year now. still is as it came out of the box.... very, very happy with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revvin Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 I use these input devices and I am very very happy with them :!: The all are USB and have very good software that comes with them. CH Products full HOTAS setup TrackIR 3 Pro Using that setup myself for Lock On, combined with the TrackIR3 Pro it can't be beat IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ruggbutt Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 I use all of those plus the Throttle Quadrant. It's awesome having a lever to move for gear, 2 stages of flaps, canopy open/close, and pitch-roll adjustment on an axis. The other great thing is that there are six toggleable buttons on the front of the TQ. It's pretty cool reaching across the desk to activate ECM, master arm and other functions. I don't need no stinking clickable pit!!!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA-Blaze Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 I'm not trying to get you to "change camps". I was merely stating that the facts regarding your arguments against CH gear. I've owned the X36, X45, Cougar and the CH gear. I was making my case from the side that I've owend them all. Most Cougar owners haven't. owning a Cougar almost a year now. still is as it came out of the box.... very, very happy with it... AnzacPT Thats great to hear Mine's 2 yrs old and havn't had any issues with it . I really like the coolness of it, (you know metal/coolness)..... 8) Heres a picture of one of IJ's mods its called Viagra..... Can't you tell why..... :D intel Cor i7-6700K ASUS ROG MAX VIII Extreme G.Skill TridentZ Series 32 GB Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SATA II ASUS GTX 1080/DIRECTX 12 Windows 10 PRO Thrustmaster Warthog Oculus Rift VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnzacPT Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Thanks... errr... your Cougar appears to need a condom, eh? :D like i said it is still as it came out of the box. i have contacted IJ though and bought the replacement SPDBRK button from him... i have not yet made up my mind about disassembling the throttle to change it... lazyness, i think... even though the button does work, it is misaligned and i prefer not to use it so that it doesn´t break. IJ is really a very nice guy and maybe one day, i´ll buy that erect... extension too... looks nice... it is one of the things that helped me make my decision of buying the Cougar... yes, it seems that either you hate it or love it. yes, there are problems. but i have yet to see ANY brand or type of HOTAS with the kind of community support, mods available and potential that the Cougar has. yes, it´s expensive. yes, you may have to mod it (i haven´t) but you KNOW that you have a stick for life... and that whatever happens with it... you can fix it and have lots of help from the community. proud member of Cougarworld where i bought a nice cool badge that i will sew to my Cougar HOTAS covers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Well worth a bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 hey guys! As a matter of curiosity. how heavily has your cougar been used? Because there are heavy duty flyers like me and others who fly only occasionaly. Then the cougar is prompted to last longer. BTW, my brother will be back from the US in a few days and Ill be able to try his CH setup. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Its not exactly cheap, my man, and for that matter everthing seems to be made in China or ahhh????? Thailand or in Asia somewhere these days ..... Blaze My CH says "Made In USA" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snomhf Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 CH is the only choice IMO. I do a lot of repair for friends. I always tell them "You should have bought a CH and you wouldn't be having this problem." What are friends for huh? ---------- Click here for details ---------- Abit AV8 MB, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1.5 GB DDR, GeForce 6600GT/256MB AGP, CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pro Pedals/Throttle Quad/DT225 Trackball, TIR4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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