upyr1 Posted November 14, 2023 Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) The recent update on the A-7E got me thinking about the state of DCS' naval assets again. Right now between the F-14, community A-4, the planned and confirmed A-7, A-6, F-8, A-1, and the speculated Naval F-4 it looks like we have a decent late 1970s/1980s American carrier airwing in the works, and if we don't get too hung up on the module I think we would have something passable for the 1960s and if we toss in the Super Entendard we will have a passable French carrier airwing. However, we don't have the right ships. I'd love to see ED and the other developers get started on fixing this. I made a list of ship classes that were in service with the US, French, and since we could use an OpFor I made Soviet navies in the time frame discussed. I don't expect to see all of them put into DCS so the next question, is which ones should be in DCS? That should be based Doctrine/mission set and the following items in any order Years the class served Number of ships built how many were in service during the 1960s-80s ship variants - subclasses and refits Amount of work to model the variants fame As I have stated in other posts, I'd love to see ED's template system improve so we can place historically correct or user-defined land and naval groups in a mission. Next in the case of ships, when historic mode is on, I'd like to see a finite number of ships in each class with the names automatically changing, whether I am building a naval battle or an amphibious operation I don't want duplicate ship names. Anyway my list of ships and service years, some are already in DCS ------------------US Navy--------------- Aircraft carrier Angled Deck midway Angled deck Essex older fittings of the Forestal cruisers Des Moines (1948–1975) 3 built Baltimore (1943–1971) 14 built Galveston (1958-199) 3 converted Clevlands I'd love the OKC. 2 had 1 6-inch turret one had 2 Providence-class cruiser (1959-1974) 3 converted Clevlands they didn't have a consistent number of turrets Albany (1967-1980) 3 converted Baltimore Boston (1955—1970) 2 converted Baltimore Lehey (1962-1995) 9 built Belknap (CGN) (1964-1995) 9 built Long Beach (CGN) (1961-1995) 1 built she normally escorted New Jersey in the 80s California (CGN) (1974-1999) 2 built Virginia (CGN)(1976-1998) 4 built- and we get Texas Ticonderoga-class (Mk26) 2 built they were available before 1985 Ticonderoga-class (VLS) Available from 1985 on. The easiest to get into DCS our late refit variants can stand in for now Destroyers- Fletcher (1942-1971) 175 built Allen M. Sumner (1943-1975) 58 built Maddox was one of them Gearing (1945- 1983) 98 built Norfolk (1953-1970) 1 built Mitscher (1953–1978) 4 built Forrest Sherman-class (1955-1988) 18 built Farragut class (1959 - 1993) 10 built Charles F. Adams-class- (1960 -2003) 23 built Spruance destroyer (1975 -2005) 31 built Kidd-class (1981-1999) 4 built Arleigh-Burke Flight 1 1991 onwards Arleigh-Burke Flight II 1998 onwards Arleigh-Burke Flight IIA 2000 onwards (in DCS already) Frigates Garcia-class (1964-1990) 10 built Brooke- class (1962-1989) 6 built Knox-class (1969-1994) 46 built Oliver-hazard Perry-class (1977-2015) 71 built Battleships Iowa-class (1968) A bit before my time frame but come on--- 9 × 16 in (406 mm) 50 cal Mark 7 guns 20 × 5 in (127 mm) 38 cal Mark 12 guns Iowa-class (1982-1992) 9 × 16 in (406 mm) 50 cal Mark 7 guns 12 × 5 in (127 mm) 38 cal. Mark 12 guns 32 × BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles 16 × RGM-84 Harpoon Anti-Ship missiles 4 × 20 mm/76 cal. Phalanx CIWS --------------------------------------------------France-------------------------------------- Aircraft carrier Clemenceau (1961–2017) - we might not have the French Crusader but I can't think of any reason not to have Clem. Jeanne d'Arc (1961-2010) Helicopter carrier/ cruiser similar to the Moskva class cruiser Suffren (1930-1972) built 4 Duquesne (1929-1962) 2 built Destroyer / frigatte the French seem to use Firgatte for everything Georges Leygues (1979 – 2022) 7 built Cassard (1988–2021) 2 built D'Estienne d'Orves (1976 to present) 17 built Tourville (1974-2014) 3 built Aconit (1973–1997) 1 built T53 class (1957–1992) 6 built battleship Richelieu (1940-1967) 2 built ------------------Soviet Navy---------------------------------------------------------------- Carrier Kiev (1975-1996) Moskva (1967-1996) 2 built helicopter carrier similar to the French Jeanne D'Arc cruisers Kirov (1980- present) 4 built Slava (1976-present) 3 built Kara (1971–2014) 7 built Kresta II (1969–1993) 10 built Kresta I (1967-1994) 4 built Kynda (1962-2002) 4 built destroyers Udaloy (1980- present) 13 built Sovrmeney (1980-present) 21 built Kashin (1962-2020) 25 built Kanin (1960-1993) 8 built Kildin (1958-1991) Frigates Neustrashimy (1986-present) 2 built Krivak (1970 - present) 40 built Riga (1954 - ) 69 built Edited January 11 by upyr1 3
Rudel_chw Posted November 14, 2023 Posted November 14, 2023 19 minutes ago, upyr1 said: I'd love to see ED and the other developers get started on fixing this. I understand that this is a wishlist item, and everyone is entitled to their wishes, however ... have you pondered how much effort would it be required to model even half the assets that you have listed? how much cost it would represent? ... it seems a really hard wish to fulfill. 2 For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
Silver_Dragon Posted November 14, 2023 Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) Review some data annex.... the quantity of time and quantity to build that assets has impresive. US navy: UsNavy Carriers (Initial carrier with A-7 CVA-41 Midway ) (67?) / Last CVN-70 Carl Vinson (90)) Theodore Roosevelt CVN class (CVN-70) (ED) Nimitz CVN class (ED) Enterprise CVN class John F. Kennedy CV class Kitty Hawk CV class Forrestal CVA class (Heatblur) Coral Sea (1985) CV Midway (1982) CV Coral Sea (1960) CVA Midway (SCB-110) CVB Submarines (SSN) Seawolf (ii) SSN Ethan Allen SSN Improved Los Angeles SSN Los Angeles SSN Glenard P. Lipscomb SSN Narwhal SSN Sturgeon SSN Permit SSN Tullibee SSN Skipjack SSN Skate SSN Seawolf (i) SSN Nautilus SSN Battleships (BB) Iowa (1982) BB Iowa (1967) BB Nuclear Cruisers (CGN) Virginia (i) CGN California CGN Truxtun DLGN Bainbridge CGN Long Beach (1983) CGN Long Beach CGN Guided Cruisers (CG) Bunker Hill CG Ticonderoga (ii) CG Belknap CG Albany CG Leahy CG Boston CAG Cleveland (Talos Cmd) CLG Cleveland (Terrier) CLG Cleveland (Terrier Cmd) CLG Cleveland (Talos) CLG Heavy Cruisers (CA) Des Moines CA Oregon City CA Baltimore CA Light Cruisers (CL) Northampton CLC Destroyers (DDG/DL/DD/DDR/DDE) Kidd DDG Mitscher (1968) DDG Decatur DDG Coontz DDG Charles F. Adams DDG Gyatt DDG Mitscher DL Norfolk DL Improved Spruance DD Spruance DD Forrest Sherman (ASW Refit) DD Gearing FRAM II DDR Gearing FRAM I DD Fletcher FRAM II DD Forrest Sherman DD Gearing (1950s) DD Fletcher DDE DDE Allen M. Sumner FRAM II DD Allen M. Sumner DD Fletcher (1950s) DD Frigates (FFG/FF/DEG/DE) O.H. Perry FFG (ED) Brooke DEG/FFG Knox DE/FF Garcia DE/FF Bronstein DE/FF Claud Jones DE Evans DE Dealey DE French carrier if someone 3rd party build them, has more plausible will make a Super Étendard, Étendard IV or other aircraft (comming on a future the Vought F-8 Crusader by M3). French cruiser Jeanne d'Arc (R97) GCH has only a helicoper carrier and never was capable to carry aircrafts. Similar situation with UK... the Audacious-class and Centaur-Class carriers carry Sea Vixen, Sea Venom, Hawk, F-4GR1 and Buccaners S2. Soviet cruisers class as: Project 1143.3 Novorossiysk CVHG Project 1143 Kiev CVHG None of them can carry a A-7, missing catapults and arrestor gear. Only aircraft capable has the Yak-38. Project 1123 Moskva CHG, was a helicoper carrier and never was capable to carry aircrafts. Edited November 14, 2023 by Silver_Dragon For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
upyr1 Posted November 14, 2023 Author Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Rudel_chw said: I understand that this is a wishlist item, and everyone is entitled to their wishes, however ... have you pondered how much effort would it be required to model even half the assets that you have listed? how much cost it would represent? ... it seems a really hard wish to fulfill. I understand which is the reason I state 12 hours ago, upyr1 said: I don't expect to see all of them put into DCS so the next question, is which ones should be in DCS? That should be based Doctrine/mission set and the following items in any order Years the class served Number of ships built how many were in service during the 1960s-80s ship variants - subclasses and refits Amount of work to model the variants fame So as you can see I am expecting ED and the other developers to whittle the list down and leave us with the fewest number of ship classes possible and still have period accurate naval ops. Edited November 15, 2023 by upyr1
upyr1 Posted November 14, 2023 Author Posted November 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: Review some data annex.... the quantity of time and quantity to build that assets has impresive. As I said earlier, I am not expecting everything on either of our lists just the most economical coverage. 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: US navy: UsNavy Carriers (Initial carrier with A-7 CVA-41 Midway ) (67?) / Last CVN-70 Carl Vinson (90)) Theodore Roosevelt CVN class (CVN-70) (ED) Nimitz CVN class (ED) Enterprise CVN class John F. Kennedy CV class Kitty Hawk CV class Forrestal CVA class (Heatblur) Coral Sea (1985) CV Midway (1982) CV Coral Sea (1960) CVA Midway (SCB-110) CVB I would also add the scb-125 Essex class carriers 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: Submarines (SSN) Seawolf (ii) SSN Ethan Allen SSN Improved Los Angeles SSN Los Angeles SSN Glenard P. Lipscomb SSN Narwhal SSN Sturgeon SSN Permit SSN Tullibee SSN Skipjack SSN Skate SSN Seawolf (i) SSN Nautilus SSN there needs to be a bit of work on ASW. 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: Battleships (BB) Iowa (1982) BB Iowa (1967) BB 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: Nuclear Cruisers (CGN) Virginia (i) CGN California CGN Truxtun DLGN Bainbridge CGN Long Beach (1983) CGN Long Beach CGN Guided Cruisers (CG) Bunker Hill CG Ticonderoga (ii) CG Belknap CG Albany CG Leahy CG Boston CAG Cleveland (Talos Cmd) CLG Cleveland (Terrier) CLG Cleveland (Terrier Cmd) CLG Cleveland (Talos) CLG Heavy Cruisers (CA) Des Moines CA Oregon City CA Baltimore CA Light Cruisers (CL) Northampton CLC Destroyers (DDG/DL/DD/DDR/DDE) Kidd DDG Mitscher (1968) DDG Decatur DDG Coontz DDG Charles F. Adams DDG Gyatt DDG Mitscher DL Norfolk DL Improved Spruance DD Spruance DD Forrest Sherman (ASW Refit) DD Gearing FRAM II DDR Gearing FRAM I DD Fletcher FRAM II DD Forrest Sherman DD Gearing (1950s) DD Fletcher DDE DDE Allen M. Sumner FRAM II DD Allen M. Sumner DD Fletcher (1950s) DD The 1975 redesignation raises the question about the dl that were reclassified as Cruisers should they be left as Cruisers or should the designation change based on the date ? 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: Frigates (FFG/FF/DEG/DE) O.H. Perry FFG (ED) Brooke DEG/FFG Knox DE/FF Garcia DE/FF Bronstein DE/FF Claud Jones DE Evans DE Dealey DE French carrier if someone 3rd party build them, has more plausible will make a Super Étendard, Étendard IV or other aircraft (comming on a future the Vought F-8 Crusader by M3). I would love it if Razbam did Clem with the Super Étendard. She would still need escorts 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: French cruiser Jeanne d'Arc (R97) GCH has only a helicoper carrier and never was capable to carry aircrafts. I know she never carried planes. However the real question is if it would have been realistic to fly Gazelles off her to support an amphibious assault or if she was an asw ship. 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: Similar situation with UK... the Audacious-class and Centaur-Class carriers carry Sea Vixen, Sea Venom, Hawk, F-4GR1 and Buccaners S2. I hope we get a Royal Phantom module with a carrier hms Tigger would be awesome for fire support. 5 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: Soviet cruisers class as: Project 1143.3 Novorossiysk CVHG Project 1143 Kiev CVHG None of them can carry a A-7, missing catapults and arrestor gear. Only aircraft capable has the Yak-38. Project 1123 Moskva CHG, was a helicoper carrier and never was capable to carry aircrafts. I know I only listed the Soviet Navy as opfor. We have the Caucuses map and Kola Peninsula map planned in both cases I want enemy ships to sink
Silver_Dragon Posted November 14, 2023 Posted November 14, 2023 18 minutes ago, upyr1 said: I would also add the scb-125 Essex class carriers SCS-125... only the CVA-34 Oriskany, but not A-7E, only A-7A/B from 70-75, other only carried on "CV" rol, F-8, A-1 and A-4. 18 minutes ago, upyr1 said: The 1975 redesignation raises the question about the dl that were reclassified as Cruisers should they be left as Cruisers or should the designation change based on the date ? Mayor overhauls and/or specific versions, not all ship series. 18 minutes ago, upyr1 said: I know she never carried planes. However the real question is if it would have been realistic to fly Gazelles off her to support an amphibious assault or if she was an asw ship. Gazzeles has observation aircrafts, the main transport / ASW helo on france ships was SA 321 Super Frelon / Aloette III / SA 330 Puma, on Jeanne d'Arc (R97) on ASW / Assault. 18 minutes ago, upyr1 said: I hope we get a Royal Phantom module with a carrier hms Tigger would be awesome for fire support. The ground attack rol on UK carriers was the Buccaners, normaly the F-4 was Air to Air / escort. For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
upyr1 Posted November 15, 2023 Author Posted November 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said: The ground attack rol on UK carriers was the Buccaners, normaly the F-4 was Air to Air / escort. 1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said: SCS-125... only the CVA-34 Oriskany, but not A-7E, only A-7A/B from 70-75, other only carried on "CV" rol, F-8, A-1 and A-4. 2 hours ago, upyr1 said: We have the A-4 Community mod, F-8, and A-1 in the works so the SCB-125 Essex class would work for them. 1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said: Mayor overhauls and/or specific versions, not all ship series. So what are your thoughts on the 1975 redesignation? For example, if we get the Leahy-class or Bellknap-class which were originally designated as DL, would the fittings before 1975 be DLG and the fittings after 1975 be CG? 1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said: The ground attack rol on UK carriers was the Buccaners, normaly the F-4 was Air to Air / escort. I know the Royal Navy Royal Navy mainly used the Phantom for Air Superiority, and the Buccaneers were the strike platform, but it still doesn't change the fact that if we get a the Royal Phnatoms, I'd love to do a what-if campaign in the Falklands
Northstar98 Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 While I'd love to get as many ships as possible it's a lot more realistic to focus on escorts that are appropriate for our current and near(er) future aircraft carriers, for the fits and eras that they cover. Right now, DCS has enough problems as it is just getting the current ships accurate to what they should be (from firing completely the wrong missiles, to having completely the wrong gun, to being a mess of different variants while missing quite a bit of their armament) or even just updating legacy assets (some of which date back 2 decades) to a common standard, without adding more and more vessels, despite how much I'd love to see them. Sticking with our current aircraft carriers, for the eras they cover, I'll pick up to 5 escort types and up to 2 auxiliaries. ARA Veinticinco de Mayo (late 1960s - late 1990s): Type 42 (Sheffield) Destroyer Batch 1 (initial) Drummond FFL HMS Invincible (1980 - 1982): Type 42 (Sheffield) Destroyer Batch 1 Type 22 (Broadsword) Frigate Batch 1 Type 21 (Amazon) Frigate Ol-class AO Fort Rosalie-class AFS USS Forrestal (post SLEP/1980s/1990s): DD 963 (Spruance) [Mk 112 + Mk 15, Mk 112 + ABL or Mk 41 VLS would fit] CG 47 (Ticonderoga) Baseline 0/1/2 / CGN 38 (Virginia) [ABL] CG 26 (Belknap) [NTU] / CG 16 (Leahy) [NTU) FF 1054 Knox [Mk 15, Harpoon] FFG 7 (Oliver Hazard Perry) [long] (earlier, corrected*) AOE 1 Sacramento AE 26 Kilauea CVNs 71-75 (mid to late 2000s): DDG 51 (Arleigh Burke) Flight I/II/IIa* (earlier, corrected) FFG 7 (Oliver Hazard Perry) [long] (corrected*) T-AO 187 (Henry J. Kaiser) T-AOE 6 (Supply) Admiral Kuznetsov: BPK Pr. 1155 Fregat [Udaloy I DDG] EM Pr. 956/956A Sarch [Sovremenny DDG] VTR Pr. 1559V [Boris Chilikin AOR] * Spoiler For the FFG 7 (Oliver Hazard Perry): For a fit appropriate for the 80s/90s: Remove Mk 234 Nulka Replace Mk 15 Phalanx Block 1B with Mk 15 Phalanx Block 0/Block 1 (Block 0 would cover both, Block 1 would cover from the mid 90s - 2000) Add STIR If going for an 80s fit, replace AN/SLQ-32(V)5 w/ AN/SLQ-32(V)2 (i.e remove Sidekick jammers). Replace RIM-66? SM-2MR with RIM-66E SM-1MR Block III. For a fit appropriate for the 2000s: Remove Mk 13 Mod 4 GMLS (no SM-1MR or RGM-84 capability), everything else can be left as is. For DDG 51 Arleigh Burke Flight IIa: For the ships as depicted (DDGs 101 - 116) Split ships up into Arleigh Burke Flight IIa (DDGs 101 - 112), Flight IIa restart (DDGs 113-115) and Flight IIa technology insertion (DDG 116) Remove the forward Mk 15 Phalanx Block 1B CIWS Add missing weapons applicable to DCS: RIM-66M-5 SM-2MR Block IIIB RIM-156A SM-2ER Block IVA RIM-162A ESSM RGM-109E Tomahawk Block IV RIM-174A SM-6 ERAM Block I (DDGs 113 - 116) RIM-174A SM-6 ERAM Block IA (DDG 116) RIM-174A SM-6 ERAM Dual-I (DDG 116) For earlier (DDGs 81-84) Flight IIas: Change the funnel for the pre DDG 89 design (as seen here) Add missing weapons: RIM-66M-5 SM-2MR Block IIIB RIM-156A SM-2ER Block IVA RIM-162A ESSM 2 Modules I own: F-14A/B, F-4E, Mi-24P, AJS 37, AV-8B N/A, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070S FE, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
Northstar98 Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 8 hours ago, upyr1 said: We have the A-4 Community mod, F-8, and A-1 in the works so the SCB-125 Essex class would work for them. Indeed it would and Magnitude 3 are doing a WWII Essex for their Corsair, it would be fantastic if we could get an SCB-125 Essex as that would fit the F-8J and the A-1H (and be the first Vietnam carrier). 8 hours ago, upyr1 said: So what are your thoughts on the 1975 redesignation? For example, if we get the Leahy-class or Bellknap-class which were originally designated as DL, would the fittings before 1975 be DLG and the fittings after 1975 be CG? Yes. Especially considering they'd respresent different versions in DCS, for the carriers we have. Right now though only 80s/90s NTU style ships fit with anything we have in DCS. 8 hours ago, upyr1 said: I'd love to do a what-if campaign in the Falklands In which case the RAF F-4M Phantom FGR.2 is way more appropriate than the F-4 Phantom FG.1 in RN service, the former is also far more historically relevant. And FWIW, the only carrier that supported them was the Audacious-class HMS Ark Royal. Modules I own: F-14A/B, F-4E, Mi-24P, AJS 37, AV-8B N/A, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070S FE, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
Silver_Dragon Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, upyr1 said: We have the A-4 Community mod, F-8, and A-1 in the works so the SCB-125 Essex class would work for them. The only SCB-125 Essex "will" comming if M3 modify your Essex WW2 long hull to a cold war version with angle deck and catapults, compatible with the F-8J (I expected them), A-1H and others. 8 hours ago, upyr1 said: So what are your thoughts on the 1975 redesignation? For example, if we get the Leahy-class or Bellknap-class which were originally designated as DL, would the fittings before 1975 be DLG and the fittings after 1975 be CG? The term DL/DLG, etc, has a historical term comming old London Naval Treaty, with the DDs and other ships has designed "Destroyers" by some weapons and tonnelage. The actual term, comming from the 1975, UsNavy reclassification on ship class and type. My sources maintain them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_destroyer_leaders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_1975_ship_reclassification I expect ED / 3rd parties and other, maintain the old "terms" to get accurated with the historical term, the same situation with the UsNavy with the 1962 United States Tri-Service aircraft designation system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1924_United_States_Army_Air_Service_aircraft_designation_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_United_States_Tri-Service_aircraft_designation_system 8 hours ago, upyr1 said: I know the Royal Navy Royal Navy mainly used the Phantom for Air Superiority, and the Buccaneers were the strike platform, but it still doesn't change the fact that if we get a the Royal Phnatoms, I'd love to do a what-if campaign in the Falklands F-4K FG.1 was on service on FAA from 1968 to 1978, the main problem, no actual UK carrier has capable to carry the F-4, and the Heatblur Hermes has a 1982 version without catapults and arresting gear and was problems to recover and launch F-4K, UK need a HMS Ark Royal to suitable F-4K operations. All F-4K was moved to the RAF on 1978, add to the others F-4M/J https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_Phantom_in_UK_service F-4M was deployed on Falklands, Port Standley / Mount Pleasant from 1982 to 1992 before replaced by the Tornado F.3 https://www.key.aero/article/defending-falklands-raf-phantom-fgr2s Edited November 15, 2023 by Silver_Dragon For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
Silver_Dragon Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 20 minutes ago, Northstar98 said: While I'd love to get as many ships as possible it's a lot more realistic to focus on escorts that are appropriate for our current and near(er) future aircraft carriers, for the fits and eras that they cover. Right now, DCS has enough problems as it is just getting the current ships accurate to what they should be (from firing completely the wrong missiles, to having completely the wrong gun, to being a mess of different variants while missing quite a bit of their armament) or even just updating legacy assets (some of which date back 2 decades) to a common standard, without adding more and more vessels, despite how much I'd love to see them. Sticking with our current aircraft carriers, for the eras they cover, I'll pick up to 5 escort types and up to 2 auxiliaries. ARA Veinticinco de Mayo (late 1960s - late 1990s): Type 42 (Sheffield) Destroyer Batch 1 (initial) Drummond FFL HMS Invincible (1980 - 1982): Type 42 (Sheffield) Destroyer Batch 1 Type 22 (Broadsword) Frigate Batch 1 Type 21 (Amazon) Frigate Ol-class AO Fort Rosalie-class AFS USS Forrestal (post SLEP/1980s/1990s): DD 963 (Spruance) [Mk 112 + Mk 15, Mk 112 + ABL or Mk 41 VLS would fit] CG 47 (Ticonderoga) Baseline 0/1/2 / CGN 38 (Virginia) [ABL] CG 26 (Belknap) [NTU] / CG 16 (Leahy) [NTU) FF 1054 Knox [Mk 15, Harpoon] FFG 7 (Oliver Hazard Perry) [long] (earlier, corrected*) AOE 1 Sacramento AE 26 Kilauea CVNs 71-75 (mid to late 2000s): DDG 51 (Arleigh Burke) Flight I/II/IIa* (earlier, corrected) FFG 7 (Oliver Hazard Perry) [long] (corrected*) T-AO 187 (Henry J. Kaiser) T-AOE 6 (Supply) Admiral Kuznetsov: BPK Pr. 1155 Fregat [Udaloy I DDG] EM Pr. 956/956A Sarch [Sovremenny DDG] VTR Pr. 1559V [Boris Chilikin AOR] * Reveal hidden contents For the FFG 7 (Oliver Hazard Perry): For a fit appropriate for the 80s/90s: Remove Mk 234 Nulka Replace Mk 15 Phalanx Block 1B with Mk 15 Phalanx Block 0/Block 1 (Block 0 would cover both, Block 1 would cover from the mid 90s - 2000) Add STIR If going for an 80s fit, replace AN/SLQ-32(V)5 w/ AN/SLQ-32(V)2 (i.e remove Sidekick jammers). Replace RIM-66? SM-2MR with RIM-66E SM-1MR Block III. For a fit appropriate for the 2000s: Remove Mk 13 Mod 4 GMLS (no SM-1MR or RGM-84 capability), everything else can be left as is. For DDG 51 Arleigh Burke Flight IIa: For the ships as depicted (DDGs 101 - 116) Split ships up into Arleigh Burke Flight IIa (DDGs 101 - 112), Flight IIa restart (DDGs 113-115) and Flight IIa technology insertion (DDG 116) Remove the forward Mk 15 Phalanx Block 1B CIWS Add missing weapons applicable to DCS: RIM-66M-5 SM-2MR Block IIIB RIM-156A SM-2ER Block IVA RIM-162A ESSM RGM-109E Tomahawk Block IV RIM-174A SM-6 ERAM Block I (DDGs 113 - 116) RIM-174A SM-6 ERAM Block IA (DDG 116) RIM-174A SM-6 ERAM Dual-I (DDG 116) For earlier (DDGs 81-84) Flight IIas: Change the funnel for the pre DDG 89 design (as seen here) Add missing weapons: RIM-66M-5 SM-2MR Block IIIB RIM-156A SM-2ER Block IVA RIM-162A ESSM Borys Chilikind required a extensive overhould, with many russian / soviet ships. Add my sources: Argentina. ARA Veinticinco de Mayo (late 1960s - late 1990s): FRG Klasse 209/1200 SS Ex-US Brooklyn First Group CL Ex-US Gearing (FRAM II) DD Ex-US Allen M. Sumner (FRAM II) DD Ex-US Allen M. Sumner DD Ex-US Fletcher (1950s) DD French A-69 FFL Z-28 PB Israeli Dabur PB Ex-US Sotoyomo PG Ex-US Navajo PS TNC 45 PT UK Ton MSC UK Ton MHC Cabo San Antonio LST Ex-US LCM(6) LCM Almirante Irizar AGB Bahía Paraíso AKB Isla de los Estados AK Bahía Buen Suceso AK Campo Durán AO Puerto Rosales AO Punta Médanos AOR Ex-US Klickitat AOG Costa Sur AP Río Carcarañá Merchant Formosa Merchant Yehuin Merchant Narwal Trawler UK Hermes CV (falklands only... await more references). No add Merchant vessels. Swiftsure (ii) SSN Valiant SSN Oberon SS Type 82 (Bristol) DDG Type 42/1 & Type 42/2 DDG County (Batch 2) DDG Type 22/1 (Broadsword) FF Leander/2 (Exocet) FF Type 12 mod (Rothesay) FF Endurance (i) PS Mexeflote Ferry Rigid Raiding Craft Mk1 LCP LCM Mk9 LCU LCVP Mk2, Mk3 LCVP Fearless LPD Sir Bedivere LST Junella MSA Cordella MSA Farnella MSA Northella MSA Pict MSA Engadine AAH Fort (ii) AE Resource AEFS Lyness AFS Hecla AGOR Appleleaf AO “Ol” class AO Tide (Later) AO Plumleaf AO Rover AOR Diligence AR URRS (only 80-23) (No Subs and other ships) Project 1143.4 Admiral Gorshkov CVHG Project 1143.3 Novorossiysk CVHG Project 1143 Kiev CVHG Project 1123 Moskva CHG Project 1144M Admiral Nakhimov (ex-Kalinin) (2022) CGN Project 1144.2 Admiral Nakhimov (ex-Kalinin) CGN Project 1144.2 Admiral Lazarev (Ex-Frunze) CGN Project 1144 Admiral Ushakov (Ex-Kirov) CGN Project 1134BF Azov CG Project 1134B Berkut B [Kara] CG Project 1134A Berkut A [Kresta II] CG Project 1134 Berkut [Kresta I] CG Project 70E Dzerzhinsky CLG Project 68bis Sverdlov CL Project 68K Chapayev CL Project 1941 Titan [Kapusta] CC Project 68-U-2 Sverdlov CC Project 68-U-1 Sverdlov CC Project 01090 [Mod Kashin] (1995) DDG Project 956A Sarych [Mod Sovremenny] DDG Project 956 Sarych Sovremenny DDG Project 61E Provornnyy [Mod Kashin] DDG Project 61 [Kashin] DDG Project 56K, 56A [Kotlin SAM] DDG Project 1155.1 Adm. Chabanenko [Udaloy II] DD Project 1155, 1155R Udaloy DD Project 56U [Mod Kildin] DD Project 57A Gnevny [Kanin] DDG Project 56PLO [Kotlin] DD Project 31 [Mod Skory] DD Project 56 [Kotlin] DD Project 30bis [Skory] DD Project 1135.6R Grigorovich [Krivak V] FFG Project 22350 Adm. Gorshkov FFG Project 1154 Yastreb FF Project 1135.2 [Krivak IV] FF Project 1135.1 Nerey [Krivak III] FF Project 1135M Burevestnik-M [Krivak II] FF Project 1135 Burevestnik [Krivak I] FF Project 22160 FFL Project 22800 Karakurt FFL Project 20386 FFL Project 20385 Gremyaschiy FFL Project 21631 Buyan-M FFL Project 1166.1K [Gepard II] FFL Project 20381 Soobrazitelny [Steregushchiy II] FFL Project 20380 Steregushchiy FFL Project 21630 Buyan FFL Project 1166.1 [Gepard I] FFL Project 1124MEh and 1124MU [Grisha V] FFL Project 1124K [Grisha IV] FFL Project 1159 [Koni] FFL Project 1124M, P1124 [Grisha III] FFL Project 1124P [Grisha II] FFL Project 1124 Albatros [Grisha I] FFL Project 35M [Mirka II] FFL Project 35 [Mirka I] FFL Project 159M [Mod Petya I] FFL Project 159A [Petya II] FFL Project 159 [Petya I] FFL Project 50 Gornostay [Riga] FFL Project 1234.7 [Nanuchka IV] PGG Project 1234.1 [Nanuchka III] PGG Project 1234 Ovod [Nanuchka I] PGG Project 1239 Sivuch [Dergach] PGGA Project 1241.8 Molniya PTG Project 1241.1T [Tarantul II] PTG Project 1241, 1241.RE [Tarantul I] PTG Project 205U, 205ER [Osa II] PTG Project 205 Tsunami [Osa I] PTG Project 183R [Komar] PTG Project 206MR Vikhr’ [Matka] PTGH Project 1240 Uragan [Sarancha] PTGH Project 1238 Kasatka LCFSA Project 21820 Dyugon LCM Project 11770 [Serna] LCM Project 1176 Akula [Ondatra] LCM Project 106K [Vydra] LCM Project 106 [MP-10] LCM Project 1785 [T-4] LCM Project 189 [MDK-22] LCM Project 306 [T-38] LCM Project 770 [MP-2] LCM Project 1206.1 Murena [Tsaplya] LCMA Project 1209 Omar [Utenok] LCMA Project 1206 Kalmar [Lebed] LCMA Project 1205 Skat [Gus] LCPA Project 188 [MP-8] LCU Project 572 [SYS-150] LCU Project 1232.2 Zubr [Pomornik] LCUA Project 1232, 1232.1 Dzheyran [Aist] LCUA Project 1174 Edinorog LPD Project 773 [Polnocny C] LSM Project 11711 Modified Vladimir Andreev LST Project 11711 Ivan Gren LST Project 775, 775/II [Ropucha I] LST Project 771, 771A [Polnocny B] LST Project 1171 Tapir [Alligator] LST Project 770MA [Polnocny A] LST Project 770D, 770M, 770T [Polnocny A] LST Project 450, 450bis [MP-2, MP-4] LST Kaliningradneft AO Project 1559V Boris Chilikin AO Dubna AO Project 1552 [Sofia] AO Project 160 [Altay] AO Project 1545 [Baskunchak] AO Project 577 [Uda] AO Project 563 [Kazbek] AO Project 23130 Akademik Pashin AOR Project 03182 AOR Project 1833 Berezina AOR For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
upyr1 Posted November 15, 2023 Author Posted November 15, 2023 3 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: The only SCB-125 Essex "will" comming if M3 modify your Essex WW2 long hull to a cold war version with angle deck and catapults, compatible with the F-8J (I expected them), A-1H and others. The term DL/DLG, etc, has a historical term comming old London Naval Treaty, with the DDs and other ships has designed "Destroyers" by some weapons and tonnelage. The actual term, comming from the 1975, UsNavy reclassification on ship class and type. My sources maintain them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_destroyer_leaders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_1975_ship_reclassification I expect ED / 3rd parties and other, maintain the old "terms" to get accurated with the historical term, the same situation with the UsNavy with the 1962 United States Tri-Service aircraft designation system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1924_United_States_Army_Air_Service_aircraft_designation_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_United_States_Tri-Service_aircraft_designation_system Considering we are getting an F-8 and A-1 and not the f8u and AD I would expect them to be listed as cgs and not DLs. 3 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said: F-4K FG.1 was on service on FAA from 1968 to 1978, the main problem, no actual UK carrier has capable to carry the F-4, and the Heatblur Hermes has a 1982 version without catapults and arresting gear and was problems to recover and launch F-4K, UK need a HMS Ark Royal to suitable F-4K operations. All F-4K was moved to the RAF on 1978, add to the others F-4M/J https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_Phantom_in_UK_service F-4M was deployed on Falklands, Port Standley / Mount Pleasant from 1982 to 1992 before replaced by the Tornado F.3 https://www.key.aero/article/defending-falklands-raf-phantom-fgr2s The fact the Ark Royal was scrap metal at this point is only a problem if you have historical mode on if it's off then it's a non issue. The real issue for DCS is if Heatblur has any British Phantoms planned? Though if anyone has a Buccaner planned I hope they have the Ark Royal.
upyr1 Posted November 15, 2023 Author Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Northstar98 said: Indeed it would and Magnitude 3 are doing a WWII Essex for their Corsair, it would be fantastic if we could get an SCB-125 Essex as that would fit the F-8J and the A-1H (and be the first Vietnam carrier) I believe magnitude is working on the Crusader I will have to pop into the A-1 discord and see if they have considered including ships Edited November 15, 2023 by upyr1
Silver_Dragon Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 21 minutes ago, upyr1 said: Considering we are getting an F-8 and A-1 and not the f8u and AD I would expect them to be listed as cgs and not DLs. The fact the Ark Royal was scrap metal at this point is only a problem if you have historical mode on if it's off then it's a non issue. The real issue for DCS is if Heatblur has any British Phantoms planned? Though if anyone has a Buccaner planned I hope they have the Ark Royal. UK phantoms has many diferences, as Sperry engines and other systems... I dont see HB makind them. 1 minute ago, upyr1 said: I believe magnitude is working on the Crusader I will have to pop into the A-1 discord The F-8J coming after the F4-1D Cobra... not sure if M3 will expand the Crusader with propper carrier and assets pack, the problem, No propper UsNavy escort has been confirmed to WW2 M3 Pacific assets to your carrier. On fact, no talked about ships yet outside your carriers. A-1H has building by Crosstail Studios, and none talked about a propper assets pack. For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
upyr1 Posted November 16, 2023 Author Posted November 16, 2023 16 hours ago, Northstar98 said: While I'd love to get as many ships as possible it's a lot more realistic to focus on escorts that are appropriate for our current and near(er) future aircraft carriers, for the fits and eras that they cover. Right now, DCS has enough problems as it is just getting the current ships accurate to what they should be (from firing completely the wrong missiles, to having completely the wrong gun, to being a mess of different variants while missing quite a bit of their armament) or even just updating legacy assets (some of which date back 2 decades) to a common standard, without adding more and more vessels, despite how much I'd love to see them. I strongly agree we DCS needs an overhaul of its naval assets. First I would like to see the ship menu change so we can have more drop downs. I think ships should be categorized the following way I'll use the USS Oklahoma City <category> Cruiser <type>light cruiser (CL) <class>Clevland <subclass> <ship>Oklahoma City (CL-91) <fitting> ----------------------------------------------------------- <category> Cruiser <type>Guied missle cruiser <class>Galveston <subclass> <ship>Oklahoma City(CG-5) <fitting> I don't care if the ships in a class use the same model or if they are individually modeled the entire point of grouping them together by class is just for better organization. I believe that implementing a system like that for the ships we have right now would be a good starting point. I would also love to see the option to load different ammo types on a ship
upyr1 Posted November 23, 2023 Author Posted November 23, 2023 On 11/15/2023 at 9:47 AM, Silver_Dragon said: UK phantoms has many diferences, as Sperry engines and other systems... I dont see HB makind them. On 11/15/2023 at 9:46 AM, upyr1 said: I know they are quite differnt, as I don't know if HB has plans to do them, I didn't mention the Royal Navy. On 11/15/2023 at 9:47 AM, Silver_Dragon said: The F-8J coming after the F4-1D Cobra... not sure if M3 will expand the Crusader with propper carrier and assets pack, the problem, No propper UsNavy escort has been confirmed to WW2 M3 Pacific assets to your carrier. On fact, no talked about ships yet outside your carriers. I don't like the fact that's the case. I want to have naval battles on the Marianas map
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