Interesting Super 530F behavior.

[CrazyGman]

So normally i've had no issue with the super 530F in game, however I did have an interesting occurance happen the other day.

I was targeting two F-5s flying in formation, with about 500 meter seperation between the 2 of them. I lock on one target, and the hud showed the locked F-5 and launched the 530F from about 8nm with them at around 15000 feet, with them both head on with a relatively fast closure rate

Once I launched the 530F i noticed it's trajectory seemed a little off, but not to any significant margin, however the missile it turns out was tracking the unlocked target. And the missile hit the target that was not locked up in the HUD. 

The seperation the 2 targets had was enough that this wasn't just the case of the missile getting close to the other target and the proximity fuse going active, in this case the missile tracked a different target then the one show on the HUD.

[Big-foot]

I'm not sure if there's any INS and guidance updates, but SARH missiles are mainly guided by the radar beam, which works as a sort of flashlight, illuminating the target.

Maybe your radar was tracking a target further away, but the other bogey flew into the radar cone and got lit up. If that second bogey was closer, it may well have lit up brighter than the target, causing the missile to track that one.

Do you have a track file of this?

[HawkEXO]

Recently, in multiplayer, I shot a 530F at a pair of flankers that were in a formation about 100m apart.   I locked on to the lead bandit but the missile impacted the trailing bandit, maybe about 100m behind him.   I sort of figured he was just "in the way" of the missile's path.  Proximity fuse detonation.   I can try to dig up the track for this if requested.

Edited December 5, 2023 by HawkEXO

[-LEO-]

Can confirm that. I Locked on one target of a flight of 2 TU-95 in a headon situation and the missile tracked and hit the other one. I can repeat that in a singleplayer mission.

[MysteriousHonza]

The beam used to illuminate target is not line, its angled and the further you are, the bigger zone it illuminates, then there are side lobes too. 500 meters is really close and with how limited "simulation" of fox 1s is in dcs. It just goes for whatever it wants, theoretically after bigger rcs at that moment. 

[Hotel Tango]

Can reproduce, and it can be exploited by the launcher player.
 

Bug F1.acmi Bug F1.trk

[Red_Camarada]

any news on this topic? @Vibora

Edited January 25, 2024 by Red_Camarada

[Vibora]

That trk doesn't seem to replay correctly. I only see two F-5's that get shot down by "phantom" F1's, I can't see them though they appear in the debriefing.

I'd need another very short trk recorded with last OB (2.9.2.49940) in Caucasus.

[Tango3B]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:32 PM, Vibora said:

That trk doesn't seem to replay correctly. I only see two F-5's that get shot down by "phantom" F1's, I can't see them though they appear in the debriefing.

I'd need another very short trk recorded with last OB (2.9.2.49940) in Caucasus.

Actually, you can do a very simple check because this „phenomenon“ is almost 100% reproducible. Create a very simple SP mission where two bandits fly in formation and you engage them with a 530F. Say you put these banding’s in Echelon or line abreast formation. They do not even have to be that close together. Then observe what happens when you shoot and the missile gets close to the intended target. Again, this is basically 100% reproducible. Just try it…

And while we are here. Any word on radar improvements like finally adding the missing radar modes like APS or BPZ or at least fixing the radar transmittting in STBY position? I mean, it has been quite a while, right? Right.

Thank you.

Edited January 30, 2024 by Tango3B

[Vibora]

We have reproduced the issue locally. After our tests it appears to be an ED's issue, as we don't change the tracked target during the missile flight time. We will report it to ED.

[MysteriousHonza]

On 11/23/2023 at 11:49 PM, CrazyGman said:

So normally i've had no issue with the super 530F in game, however I did have an interesting occurance happen the other day.

I was targeting two F-5s flying in formation, with about 500 meter seperation between the 2 of them. I lock on one target, and the hud showed the locked F-5 and launched the 530F from about 8nm with them at around 15000 feet, with them both head on with a relatively fast closure rate

Once I launched the 530F i noticed it's trajectory seemed a little off, but not to any significant margin, however the missile it turns out was tracking the unlocked target. And the missile hit the target that was not locked up in the HUD. 

The seperation the 2 targets had was enough that this wasn't just the case of the missile getting close to the other target and the proximity fuse going active, in this case the missile tracked a different target then the one show on the HUD.

keep in mind, sparrow had issues with distinguishing close flying targets. 1500 feets was an issue, yes it used worse seeker but on the other hand it uses CWI and PD to guide in. S530F is pulse missile, if both targets are in radar cone being illuminated, S530F cant realistically tell difference if they are flying same speed and alt. 

[Hobel]

Am 23.11.2023 um 23:49 schrieb CrazyGman:

So normally i've had no issue with the super 530F in game, however I did have an interesting occurance happen the other day.

I was targeting two F-5s flying in formation, with about 500 meter seperation between the 2 of them. I lock on one target, and the hud showed the locked F-5 and launched the 530F from about 8nm with them at around 15000 feet, with them both head on with a relatively fast closure rate

Once I launched the 530F i noticed it's trajectory seemed a little off, but not to any significant margin, however the missile it turns out was tracking the unlocked target. And the missile hit the target that was not locked up in the HUD. 

The seperation the 2 targets had was enough that this wasn't just the case of the missile getting close to the other target and the proximity fuse going active, in this case the missile tracked a different target then the one show on the HUD.

 

I'm not exactly familiar with this missile, but there are reports where exactly this weakness is mentioned about older aim7 fox1 missiles when it comes to targets that are close to each other, so you can say that it's cool that such a weakness is taken into account.