Looking at upgrading from a G2...the Crystal vs Aero debate

[JG27_Arklight]

The one aspect I don't get about the Pimax vs Aero debate (I have neither...I'm actually still happy with my G2 but am in the market for something new) is the mention of having to buy the Base Station/s. Yes, you need at least one, preferably two I'm guessing. However, the Crystal often (notice I said often) requires extras as well.

The Aero is cheaper than the Pimax but requires a $150 Base station. Havig said that, even with 2 Base stations it appears cheaper than the Crystal. You could throw a wireless headset in there for sound and it'll still be cheaper. But what about the Crystal? From what Ive beenbreading, you will probably want a new headstrap, that's about $40. If you wear perscription lenses, you have two or three options, iirc. However, you will more than likely need a 15mm face pad so your eyelashes have clearance, that's another $20. A lot of users are also recommending using a powered USB hub...that's another $30 or so. The default integral speakers I've read are "mediocre at best", so if you want the DMAS speakers that's another $100. It also seems like Pimax's quality/consistency leaves a little to be desired and their RMA/Customer service doesn't seem award winning either (from what I've read).

The Aero requires a few pieces of hardware to work. The Pimax seemingly needs some addons just to be "usable/viable" by quite a few people.

I keep watching all these reviews on YT and reading reviews around the internet, but the only benefit of the Crystal seems to be the FoV, lack of base station need and integral speakers. Having said that, quality seems inconsistent, the headset seems heavy/uncomfortable, the software seems less mature and people often require further mods.

Are people buying new face pads, USB hubs and replacement headatraps with counter-weights.....for more FoV and so they dont need to buy base stations? Am I missing something?

As I stated earlier, I'm in the market for something new but some of this stuff doesn't seem too compelling.

Thanks for any insight here!

Edited November 29, 2023 by JG27_Arklight

[speed-of-heat]

You also need to include audio for the areo... I have been doing the same maths... And similar conclusion that said my g2 has been getting an occasional regular bluescreen...

 

[speed-of-heat]

Trigger pulled, Aero enroute 

[kevman]

I also just bought an aero but am coming from an index so it was an easier decision as i have the base stations.

The only real benefit i can see with the crystal over the aero is the additional vfov for flight sim. 

However even if the extra fov of the crystal over the aero is 30 degs that is only an extra 15 above the horizontal and 15 below. I cant see it making as much difference as some people make out.

And actaully the index which has a high vfov has most of it below the horizon.

The other added cost i would have bought for the crystal was the faceplate as i like the lighthouse tracking. Thats around $100

[MichaelJWP15]

I went for Pimax from my G2, all I play is sims though.

No regrets, maybe I've been lucky but my only complaint is the length of time to get the eyetracking working with DCS. Very happy now though and shortly about to sell my G2.

Aero vs. Pimax is a close comparison though, both are good choices IMO.

[sepruda]

I'm in the same position. Really hoped Varjo would announce a new headset, but it was only a commercial headset.

I've not heard about unhappy Aero users but plenty of crystal users 

[eFirehawk]

I got a Crystal, and to be fair I wish I went for the Aero. Got all addons ( thicker face pad for prescription lenses, Apache head strap, DMAS, hub ) and I feel like the only thing good about the headset is the clarity within the sweet spot. Even the sweet spot isn't all that either - at least in my case, edge to edge clarity is not true at all. And the FOV to me feels about the same as the G2, both with prescription lenses. It is uncomfortable, got plenty of software hiccups, making it work with USB ports is finicky, eye tracking needs to be calibrated every time and occasionally stops working out of nowhere. To me it feels like a prototype of a headset, that should have costed no more than 800 bucks or so. In order to keep trying to improve my experience I exceeded the return window. So to me the Crystal right now feels nothing more than a stop-gap until something else better ( even if with a tiny bit less clarity ) comes up.

But then again, maybe I was unlucky or my case is very peculiar due to prescription lenses, head size/shape and computer itself. VR stuff can be very personal. If you go for a Crystal just try to get it from a shop with good return policy and don't wast time testing it before the return window is gone.

[LtSpoon]

I'm facing the same question. I would buy the Aero immediately if it wasn't for that small vertical field of view. I am very happy with the G2, except for the field of view. To all G2 owners, would the Aero be an upgrade in FOV? Unfortunately I can't test the Aero anywhere

Is the FOV vertical FOV as small as some report? 

[j9murphy]

It's unfortunate that so many people have trouble with their crystal.  Mine just works, never had a problem, never had to contact support. There are a couple of things that don't work as well as they should yet, and I had to add prescription lenses and an apache headstrap to make the comfort tolerable, but other than that, I'm really happy with it. 

 

[Dragon1-1]

54 minutes ago, LtSpoon said:

I'm facing the same question. I would buy the Aero immediately if it wasn't for that small vertical field of view. I am very happy with the G2, except for the field of view. To all G2 owners, would the Aero be an upgrade in FOV? Unfortunately I can't test the Aero anywhere

Is the FOV vertical FOV as small as some report? 

I'd like to ask the same question. Clarity and tracking are fine for me with the G2, how much of an upgrade the Aero is, particularly with regards to FOV (both horizontal and vertical)? I know it has better lenses, and doesn't have some of G2's quirks, but how much better is it?

[JG27_Arklight]

I ordered an Aero last night. I was using my G2 and came to the realization that I just don't pay much attention to the vertical fov (perhaps because I'm a ground attack/helo type of player?). I just don't have an issue with my G2s fov and if I'm honest, the sweet spot thing doesn't bug me either.

Edited November 29, 2023 by JG27_Arklight

[freehand]

UK users from what place did you order your headsets ?

[Dangerzone]

In regards to the Aero, what's the "Aero problem" that was discussed in the latest Wags video. (I haven't watched the video, but IIRC in a summary it was mentioned that a question was raised regarding a "Vairo Aero fix", and WAGS apparently says they don't have the headset and the company can't afford to buy every piece of hardware.

Is there something about the Vairo Aero that DCS doesn't like / doesn't work with properly?

[speed-of-heat]

3 hours ago, freehand said:

UK users from what place did you order your headsets ?

Varjo online 

[Swoop]

I'm currently testing the Crystal, getting it heavily discounted in the Black Friday sales, I've been a G2 user for years but really wanted a better sweet spot (looking through a straw!) and with eye tracking. The Crystal seemed the ticket with all the other benefits over the Aero. A big one for me was the report of a higher vertical FOV and so better for dogfighting, which is what I love to do, especailly in a Spitfire!

I found the setup fine, had an aftermarket top head strap from my G2 which I used on the Crystal, as it was just painful on my forehead. This did help. Eyetracking was sorted and works really well (thx Matt). However, currently I'm struggling getting a decent performance while flying over the channel while dogfighting 109s, dropping down to 20 fps, this is with a 4090 and a AMD 5900x. Anyway this could be down to my old version of windows 10 and currently I'm moving over to Win11 as this is meant to be better with multi cores.

However, though these repeated dogfight sessions as I kept adjusting settings through OpenXR/DCS and reducing res to try and get a decent FPS, the fact this is a bloody heavy bit of kit on your noggin and swinging it around trying to find your target's wingman, was just painful after a while for me. Flying jets and locking on targets via the radar and generally a slower pace flying is okay, but for me, loving WW2 fights, I'm sending it back and have ordered the Aero while still it's still on 10% discount. Picked up a secondhand version 1 basestation for 50 quid and waiting for the Aero. I hope the lighter weight, a fan (the Crystal was foging up for me, especailly at the start of a session) and the hope of better fps with a more mature software....fingers crossed!!

[MichaelJWP15]

18 hours ago, Swoop said:

...However, currently I'm struggling getting a decent performance while flying over the channel while dogfighting 109s, dropping down to 20 fps, this is with a 4090 and a AMD 5900x. Anyway this could be down to my old version of windows 10 and currently I'm moving over to Win11 as this is meant to be better with multi cores....

However, though these repeated dogfight sessions as I kept adjusting settings through OpenXR/DCS and reducing res to try and get a decent FPS, the fact this is a bloody heavy bit of kit on your noggin and swinging it around trying to find your target's wingman, was just painful after a while for me. Flying jets and locking on targets via the radar and generally a slower pace flying is okay, but for me, loving WW2 fights, I'm sending it back and have ordered the Aero while still it's still on 10% discount...

Strange with the performance as I am getting 45 - 50fps in that situation, and I only have a 4070. Suggests something can be improved.

Your second point, I can understand, I am more of a ground attack pilot, but still swivel round looking for SAMs etc. It can get heavy on the neck but no worse than the motorcycle helmet I wear for biking.

Have you considered the Big Screen Beyond? That looks just amazing for that type of dogfighting, so lightweight. Haven't tried it yet but would like to.

[Mr_sukebe]

It’s also worth checking out XRnecksafer, awesome app

[Swoop]

On 12/1/2023 at 9:48 AM, MichaelJWP15 said:

Strange with the performance as I am getting 45 - 50fps in that situation, and I only have a 4070. Suggests something can be improved.

I must add now that I’ve dual booted to a fresh copy of Win 11, with just DCS and Pimax software, openXR etc. (strict orders to the missus and kids not to use this version) My performance has shot up to high 80s with High setting in DCS and native res in OpenXR, (DFR running) dropping this res down a bit (3800) and running CAS with DFR and I’ve never seen anything like it, solid 90.
 

Spitfire’s canopy open, drinking in the engine noise (non Dmas sadly) and just buzzing over the white cliffs, I felt like I could rest my arm on the window edge…and fry myself a kipper. I fancy sticking with this now and relearn the Mossie so I can fly Requiem’s campaign, which I’ve waited for a headset of this quality to fly for a long time… it should be worth the wait.

I’m getting slight stutters though and heard people try 120hz and then lock frames to half, or try 72hr, but again I’m just starting this journey with the Crystal. 5800X3D is also meant to help latency and those stutters (100mb L3 cache)

Regarding the comfort I was moaning about, oddly with the smoother image, I’m not moving around half as much and with the G2 after market head strap, I’m not finding it as uncomfortable. I had to sell a kidney to get this, so I’ll just have to read about the Aero now.

[MichaelJWP15]

Sounds good @Swoop, one problem of course with VR is we can totally obsessed with performance, settings, framerate, stutters etc. etc. to the detriment of enjoying ourselves.

I liked your comment about learning the Mossie, after all, we are here to get the experience of flying planes we could never get in real life. Quit the technical forums for a while, turn off the framerate counter and get immersed. (for a while anyway!)

[Bowman-011]

As a day-one G2 user I'm also on the lookout for an upgrade. The Aero is ever so tempting especially with the recent price cut. But if I'm going for an upgrade it has to be something that outmatches the G2 in every way. For me the Aero is not quite far enough down that road despite having some unquestionable advantages over the G2 and Pimax never fully convinced me. 

What I would wish for: extended FOV, eye tracking, inside-out tracking, decent pass-through and hand tracking. 

For now I've decided to wait what the next months will bring. XR-4 has already been announced and maybe some other interesting candidates will enter the game. Until then I'll stick to my G2 with some quality upgrades such as a custom face gasket and leapmotion controller and rather do what Michael does: enjoy the immersion.

[Rodeo]

So my two cents on FOV with only my experience with Pimax 8kx and Aero. I used the 8kx for a year replacing it with the Aero and the difference in FOV did not concern me given so many of the other benefits the Aero brings; plus I haven’t really noticed any difference. I have had zero technical issues so far with the Aero, took delivery in April. The Pimax was a constant battle to get it operating. The Aero just absolutely works for me, also with one center mounted base station, and I couldn’t have been more happy with my purchase; except the price started dropping via sales the day I received mine

 

Cheers

Edited December 5, 2023 by Rodeo

[AlpineGTA]

With dynamic foveated rendering, does it take less GPU power to run an Aero or a Crystal than it does a G2? And does anyone actually run a G2 at 100% resolution and 90fps without any motion reprojection? If not and it does take more power to run an Aero or Crystal, then how is it possible to upgrade to these headsets and use them at their full potential?

I don't like using motion reprojection or upscaling, so I run my G2 at 60Hz and the highest resolution I can without needing any of the aforementioned, which is 60% in Open XR toolkit. This runs nice and smooth for me using my 6900XT on almost any map and situation and it's still acceptably sharp and clear. If I run at 100% resolution in Open XR toolkit it looks amazingly sharp but everything starts to stutter (I find it hard to imagine an Aero or Crystal can look that much better for the price increase, but then I've never experienced one).

So I find it hard to believe that it's possible to run even a G2 at 90Hz and 100% resolution, without motion reprojection or upscaling, even with an RTX4090, never mind an Aero or Crystal, at full refresh rate and resolution, but I'm happy to hear from anyone who is doing so? I'm not saying anyone is being dishonest or anything with the performance that they're getting, I'd just be happy to hear that's it's possible.  

[speed-of-heat]

It's a pixel math problem... the areo needs less pixels to run than the G2, but provides better clarity because of the lenses and the pixel density we which is higher...

[LtSpoon]

@Rodeo

What about the vertical FOV? Is it really as small as many people report?

Edited December 5, 2023 by LtSpoon

[edmuss]

I went G2 to Aero back in May this year, to me vertical FOV is essentially the same, horizontal FOV is wider though - the viewport is more of a letterbox shape.  Think of the view out of a motorcycle helmet.  The crystal has more vertical FOV, particularly downwards so checking panels might be easier, this has never been an issue for me though, in the aero I can read both HUD and MFDs in the A10C just by moving my eyes.

Performance wise the aero is faster than the G2 when using varjo foveated due to the lower pixel count required. 

A sort of bad point to note about the aero, there is a slight motion blur that is apparent when moving your head, this does not bother me in the slightest however some it does.  It's nothing to do with the panel latency as fast moving objects whilst holding your head still are perfectly clear.  Varjo have said that there is nothing that can be done to fix the issue.  If you find it bothers you then you have a 14 day window to return it to varjo - just be eyes open.

I use 2 htc vive V1 base stations that I got from CEX for 50 quid each, both up front, slightly above the headset, canted inwards and downwards.  Tracking is perfect and I don't lose it even when checking 6.

I love my aero, it's super comfy, the active cooling is superb when it gets warm and the clarity and performance just works for me.  Is it perfect?  Possibly not but it's a great bit of kit.