MiG-29S,G within FC3 after MiG-29A FF release

[Mateo]

So there is a question to ED:

What plan for MiG-29S,G,A our ED have got in future ? Will these aircraft stay supported ?

Will development will be continued ?

Will MiG-29G of FC3 have the same performance/flight model that MiG-29A FF when flying multiplayer pvp ?

There will be some kind of confusion between these aircrafts, even all of them are quite similar - (A and G is different in avianics unit setup, and the S version is superior - have got flight controls modified and ECM)

So what the future brings to our FC3 MiGs-29?

Best Regards,

Mateo

[Mike_Romeo]

2 hours ago, Mateo said:

Will these aircraft stay supported ?

Yes but nothing beyond bug fiying

2 hours ago, Mateo said:

Will development will be continued ?

The FC-3 MiG-29 is feature completed

2 hours ago, Mateo said:

Will MiG-29G of FC3 have the same performance/flight model that MiG-29A FF when flying multiplayer pvp ?

Very very similar but not the same due to further simulation of stuff in the FF 29

2 hours ago, Mateo said:

So what the future brings to our FC3 MiGs-29?

Probably the same same as for the FC-3 A-10A

[AeriaGloria]

Note the updated flight control system of the S upgrade is not simulated in DCS. All use the same flight model, and like A-10A sure any updates will be backported 

A-10A is supported. So little need to worry. It’s more of an issue that FC3 probably doesn’t make enough money to allow much work

[Mateo]

The MiG-29S is currently the one, which could carry RVV (R77) and try to fight againts modern western aircrafts carrying AIM120. 

I am very enthusiastic about FF of 29A, but I am also just curious about that variant S left available in FC3

1 hour ago, Mike_Romeo said:

The FC-3 MiG-29 is feature completed

Not really, certain things are not completed. If ED team is currently don't working on it, it doesn't mean that product is feature complete. There were real pilots complains regarding flight model, ED try to improve it or disregard by showing that some of flight dynamic coefficient graphs match the real one, but some real pilots still complain as an example.

As an offtopic I might add that RVV performance is not officially published but military journalist assume that Red side considered making a step back to semi active radsr guided missiles of higher range instead of expensive semi modern RVV

[draconus]

16 hours ago, Mateo said:

I am very enthusiastic about FF of 29A, but I am also just curious about that variant S left available in FC3.

Nothing will happen. FC3 MiG-29A/G/S stays as is, with continued maintenance only, while FF MiG-29A will be separate module. Here's new sub:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/1217-dcs-mig-29a-fulcrum/

16 hours ago, Mateo said:

Not really, certain things are not completed. If ED team is currently don't working on it, it doesn't mean that product is feature complete. There were real pilots complains regarding flight model, ED try to improve it or disregard by showing that some of flight dynamic coefficient graphs match the real one, but some real pilots still complain as an example.

Yes, it is complete, as ED delivered what they planned for this module years ago. This means only maintenance and bug fixing is continued*. Regarding alleged FM bugs, please continue in the respective threads if you have new data.

*It is not clear if some new wished features or module refreshing or any features developed for other modules will come to FC3 in years to come. There is currently no such plan.

[Ramius007]

I m super ok with removal of FC3 Mig 29A from Earth after FF Mig arrives, and i love my FC3 old Fulcrum

Edited January 29, 2024 by Ramius007

[draconus]

3 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

I m super ok with removal of FC3 Mig 29A from Earth after FF Mig arrives

Good for you, but a lot of users that already paid for FC3 or just FC3 MiG-29 would not be ok with such a move, esp. deleting S version in the process.

[Ramius007]

S version should remain, I m not sure about G variant, but it's diffrent situation to A-10A and A-10C, in Mig case we have same plane. Speaking about Mig 29S, good moment for some love from ED, Flanker/J-11 currently is rather widely accepted with PL-12 on servers, IMO Mig 29S getting R-77-1 would be a nice gesture towards MP community, even with this addition it will be far from OP with all limitations compered to Flankers and F-teens

Edited January 29, 2024 by Ramius007

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, Ramius007 said:

S version should remain, I m not sure about G variant..

All versions should remain. If I want to fly the Flaming Cliffs MiG-29A, G, or S (all of which I’ve paid for) rather than the FF -A version, I should be able to.

Edited January 29, 2024 by Ironhand

[Mateo]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

Yes, it is complete, as ED delivered what they planned for this module years ago. This means only maintenance and bug fixing is continued*. Regarding alleged FM bugs, please continue in the respective threads if you have new data.

*It is not clear if some new wished features or module refreshing or any features developed for other modules will come to FC3 in years to come. There is currently no such plan.

Ok then, so what about flight model of new FF and previous FC3. Many complains about flight model, which might be called 'bug'* will also be present in FF model ? If yes, that's a pity. If no, it will be clear feedback for all people who reported flight model bug that their complains were right, and ED did nothing with that bugs.

In my opinion MiG-29 from FC3 should stay, but telling long story short:

MiG-29A FC3 and MiG-29 FF should have got the same flight performance in order to satisfy multiplayer players fighting each other.

 

* - I am talking about real MiG-29 pilots who play FC3 and complain, most of them wrote their complains in Russian language subjects

Edited January 29, 2024 by Mateo

[GGTharos]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:59 PM, Mateo said:

Ok then, so what about flight model of new FF and previous FC3.

If there is a difference with the MiG-29A FC3 flight model, I believe any changes done to the FF MiG-29A will be ported back to the FC3 one, much like what was done with the A-10 model.

[AeriaGloria]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:59 AM, Mateo said:

Ok then, so what about flight model of new FF and previous FC3. Many complains about flight model, which might be called 'bug'* will also be present in FF model ? If yes, that's a pity. If no, it will be clear feedback for all people who reported flight model bug that their complains were right, and ED did nothing with that bugs.

In my opinion MiG-29 from FC3 should stay, but telling long story short:

MiG-29A FC3 and MiG-29 FF should have got the same flight performance in order to satisfy multiplayer players fighting each other.

 

* - I am talking about real MiG-29 pilots who play FC3 and complain, most of them wrote their complains in Russian language subjects

 

Not sure how up to date your reading of Russian pilot complaints are, but MiG-29 FM was updated with DCS 2.9 to have more aggressive SAU damper that makes it fly smoother and better ground effect that makes landing much easier 

S upgrade can’t cover R-77-1 becuase it didn’t exist at the time. 

Edited January 31, 2024 by AeriaGloria

[TheFreshPrince]

Although I like the current mods, with the up-to-date full fidelity Mig as a base, the future mods will be much more interesting. Same will apply for S and G models. FC3 has its place, but I think the new Mig with mods will be the way to go to experience M, S and G variants. 

[okopanja]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:13 PM, Ramius007 said:

S version should remain, I m not sure about G variant, but it's diffrent situation to A-10A and A-10C, in Mig case we have same plane. Speaking about Mig 29S, good moment for some love from ED, Flanker/J-11 currently is rather widely accepted with PL-12 on servers, IMO Mig 29S getting R-77-1 would be a nice gesture towards MP community, even with this addition it will be far from OP with all limitations compered to Flankers and F-teens

 

Fresh example: BS2 was not removed when BS3 arrived.

[draconus]

8 hours ago, okopanja said:

Fresh example: BS2 was not removed when BS3 arrived.

BS2 is deprecated now, not available for sale. Same with A-10C vs A-10C II.

Edited February 1, 2024 by draconus

[okopanja]

28 minutes ago, draconus said:

BS2 is deprecated now, not available for sale. Same with A-10C vs A-10C II.

 

Still, if you own one its still there under conditions similar to FC3.

Not sure what is fair for future FC3 29 customers: perhaps havr 29a removed for then, while old should still have it available even if they buy 9.12 FF?

[draconus]

33 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Not sure what is fair for future FC3 29 customers: perhaps havr 29a removed for then, while old should still have it available even if they buy 9.12 FF?

I don't think anything should be changed with regard to FC3 MiG-29. FF MiG is not an upgrade. It's a new different product.

[Ramius007]

More interesting question is, do FC3 modules finally get doppler radars, I m sure FF Mig 29 get one (finally)

[draconus]

6 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

do FC3 modules finally get doppler radars

They already do.

[Ramius007]

5 minutes ago, draconus said:

They already do.

No, they dont, doppler radars see fast moving targets on ground clutter, no FC3 module can do it

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

No, they dont, doppler radars see fast moving targets on ground clutter, no FC3 module can do it

You don't have full control of the radars or even all modes in FC3.

If you think you've found a bug, report it. Tracks and data make changes. Ranting gets ignored.

[okopanja]

17 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

No, they dont, doppler radars see fast moving targets on ground clutter, no FC3 module can do it

Report the bug with trk file in FC3 area for now this is Mig-29FF and lets keep it that way.

[Mateo]

On 2/7/2024 at 2:39 PM, Ramius007 said:

No, they dont, doppler radars see fast moving targets on ground clutter, no FC3 module can do it

They do, you probably expect to see radar fake targets and have realistic filtering, but it is related to FF modules. FC3 makes all that things simple, but it is still within the simulation of doppler radar so we shoudn't complain on it.

[Ramius007]

8 hours ago, Mateo said:

They do, you probably expect to see radar fake targets and have realistic filtering, but it is related to FF modules. FC3 makes all that things simple, but it is still within the simulation of doppler radar so we shoudn't complain on it.

it's already simplified by making SARH missiles near useless close to ground, IMO it's heroic attempt from ED to make ground attack platform live better in usual MP enviroment, that is no cooperation, no friendly air cover, instead of limiting radar to LOS like it should be. Ground clutter indeed was making old radars useless, but not anything near 4th gen fighters. Mig 29 had it's issues, seeing double when there was single target, seeing single target when there was pair, not seeing cold targets at all, and propably some more, about not being able to spot relatively fast moving object near ground I never heard.

Edited February 15, 2024 by Ramius007

[draconus]

5 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

...about not being able to spot relatively fast moving object near ground I never heard.

Hopefully ED won't model their radars after what forum users heard or not.