Refund on the F-15E

[The Stick]

This topic is a non-starter - see clause 5 of the EULA. Moreover, there appears to have been an attempt at damage control as reported here. 

[PhantomHans]

2 hours ago, cfrag said:

But consider this: I still occasionally play "Unreal Tournament". The last update that game received was before my godson's parents married.

Every now and then, when I'm feeling nostalgic, I've been known to boot up DOS-Box and grab my CD-ROM editions of Falcon 3.0 (technically Falcon Gold...), Fleet Defender, or similar. 

I hope that when DCS world is that old I can still access all the modules I paid for......

More immediately, I hope whatever the issue is here can be solved speedily and in a manner leaving both sides happy.

[MichaelJWP15]

We shouldn't forget also that DCS module developers are tiny and ephemeral by most software studio standards. The team members are also usually geographically disparate and the employees usually only short-term contract, despite some members having grand job titles like CEO. They could disappear overnight and we should not expect them to have the stability of a larger developer. Certainly if I pay for an "early access" module (and I have paid for many) I have zero expectations of it ever being "final", whatever that means.

 

[Richrach]

On 4/6/2024 at 2:25 AM, cfrag said:

Wait - you married your girlfriend because she told you four times that Razbam isn't continuing work on the Mudhen? 

We are all grown ups here and make grown-up purchasing decisions.

Now, I do not know much about the sim world and people who enjoy flying in it.  I do know about tactical aviation, specifically combat aviation, specifically carrier aviation.  I can tell you from 25 years experience and nine combat deployments overseas there are NO GROWNUPS FLYING THERE.  No grownup or even smart person would willingly do that in real life, and I include myself in that characterization. - Richrach

[Pipe]

On 4/6/2024 at 7:49 AM, Cab said:

This is the most interesting post I've seen in a long time.

You've formed a rock-solid conclusion based on comments some people have made on different forums over just a couple of days. Meanwhile, you call others "flat-earthers" who are reminding us we don't have any real facts and advising people to wait for more official before jumping to conclusions.

Is it not a fact that Razbam employee’s have stated their done with ED?

[Pipe]

23 hours ago, Exorcet said:

There are a whole host of things that can happen to "unfinalize" your product. This could range from the company you bought it from running out of a money to an asteroid destroying the Earth tomorrow. There is always risk. It's unfortunate but true. At least in this case the risk was labeled on the package that you would be spending money on something that was not in a finished form.

I'm not saying that you have to be happy about things going wrong, or that we shouldn't try to come up with a better system. But thinking that you should get the final product no matter what and never have to think of things that might get in the way of that is extremely unrealistic.

Even if the F-15 was in a finished state, the next core update would end its compatibility…

[bfr]

13 minutes ago, Pipe said:

Is it not a fact that Razbam employee’s have stated their done with ED?

We don't know its a fact. Nothing to say that things can't be patched up and people return to what they were doing (or competent replacements be found if those who said they were 'done' are indeed 100% not ever returning).

[FullMetal_cooKie]

I just want my money back...

[Hiob]

1 minute ago, FullMetal_cooKie said:

I just want my money back...

Make a ticket with the support then and stop bothering us. I couldn’t care less if you get a refund or not.

[Northstar98]

Just now, Hiob said:

Make a ticket with the support then and stop bothering us. I couldn’t care less if you get a refund or not.

Only person making you read this thread is you.

[Hiob]

1 minute ago, Northstar98 said:

Only person making you read this thread is you.

True, but I‘m not willing to leave the field to the whiners and haters without expressing opposition! 

[Pipe]

2 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Only person making you read this thread is you.

That’s true, don’t worry though it will all be over shortly. When it mysteriously disappears

[Art-J]

33 minutes ago, Pipe said:

Is it not a fact that Razbam employee’s have stated their done with ED?

Their lead artist and lead programmer, so not just ordinary "some people" indeed. Which is their prerogative - whatever the real reason, if they don't feel like doing contract work anymore for whichever company was supposed to pay them, then they won't do contracts for that company and that's that. Simple.

I do consider it a non-trivial problem, though. One could say 3D and texture artists are dime a dozen (albeit I've heard this particular person is one of the very best amongst 3rd party devs in fligth sim business), so his replacement could be found sooner or later.

Coders competent in flight and system modelling, however, well, they don't grow on trees to put it VERY mildly. And even IF ED does have access to source code of Mudhen (which allegedly isn't even the case), taking someone elses code and figuring out how it works is the very last thing any sane software developer wants to do. Espeicially when ED is not the most efficient entity in fixing their own modules, to be honest.

To sum it up, even if ED and RAZBAM come to some settlement and fire is put out, if two key staff members decide to quit anyway, maintenance of the current RAZBAM modules is going to be much more difficult, let alone development of any new ones.

Edited April 7 by Art-J

[FullMetal_cooKie]

27 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Make a ticket with the support then and stop bothering us. I couldn’t care less if you get a refund or not.

Then stop replying, I already sent in a ticket.

[Cab]

2 hours ago, Pipe said:

Is it not a fact that Razbam employee’s have stated their done with ED?

A couple of employees have but that doesn't represent the position of the company. Also, who knows, things may work themselves out and they might change their minds.

We just don't know yet.

2 hours ago, FullMetal_cooKie said:

I just want my money back...

Sorry, but I don't think you really don't have a justification for a refund yet. Regardless of what has been written, at this time the module is still working as intended.

[Pipe]

10 minutes ago, Cab said:

A couple of employees have but that doesn't represent the position of the company. Also, who knows, things may work themselves out and they might change their minds.

We just don't know yet.

You're right we don't know yet, but if these guys were not getting paid. Thats pretty low and petty regardless of contract issues imo

[Teknetinium]

9 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

I'm afraid that the underlying problem is an unsustainable business model. The only source of revenue is the sale of modules. In order to generate revenue, ED launches new modules before earlier modules are completed. Most of that revenue is probably not spent for the development of the new modules but for (very slowly) completing recent modules, software maintenance and support. Every new module adds to the workload ( = Cost) of software maintainance. It's easy to see that this business model cannot be sustained in the long run. It doesn't work finacially, and it doesn't work for the customer base. I bought the Hornet on 01-DEC-1918, and it's still in "Early Access". I'm not happy about that at all, and I will be very reluctant about buying anything in EA going forward.
I believe that ED will be obliged to go to a business model where you pay a monthly or annual fee for using the software. A lot of people won't like that and the customer base might get smaller. Changing to that business model will be challenging; but the alternative is to go belly-up. Just my assessment, maybe ED finds another way to continue their Games line of business.

Agree, ED could provide a wide range on MP Campaigns and events for the fee. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:25 AM, cfrag said:

We are all grown ups here

 

Most people on Reddit/Discord and a lot of them here on the forum should be given a lollypop so they would stop crying while the actual grown-ups sort out this mess (behind closed doors this time pretty please).

[Braunn]

On 4/6/2024 at 10:50 AM, Hiob said:

Can you tell me the Lottery numbers for tonight please? That would be handy!

Exactly!

 

to quote myself from a different topic:

„Some people just want to throw around negative assumptions just for the faint possibility they can eventually scream "See, told you!"....“

fits perfectly (again, unfortunately)

 

In my case it's not a negative assumption, rather a positive one because I can have my life back if all flight sims died. I have no self control. 

[Cab]

1 hour ago, Pipe said:

You're right we don't know yet, but if these guys were not getting paid. Thats pretty low and petty regardless of contract issues imo

Not sure how that applies to this discussion, but yes, that’s the word.

But we don’t know the circumstances behind that. It’s conceivable that it’s Razbam that was in breach of some agreement.

[Moxica]

 

 

[Qcumber]

Assumption is the mother of all F-(15)ups. 

[Pipe]

1 hour ago, Cab said:

Not sure how that applies to this discussion, but yes, that’s the word.

But we don’t know the circumstances behind that. It’s conceivable that it’s Razbam that was in breach of some agreement.

More than likely would not be talking about refunds, if they had been paid..

[Cab]

49 minutes ago, Pipe said:

More than likely would not be talking about refunds, if they had been paid..

Nope, sorry. You’ve still lost me.
 

It’s probably me, but don’t bother explaining I’ve kind of lost interest.

[Pipe]

I thought sim enthusiasts were smarter…oh well