F-16 Block 52 CJ

[Viper1031]

Now, I know what most of you are gonna say: There's not enough difference between the Block 50 and 52 to warrant this. I would argue otherwise, The CJs are pure Wild Weasel, they can carry HARMs and Shrikes, and the Harpoons. For those two extra weapons alone I believe the Block 52 would be warranted. It would also give us another variant to work with, kinda like the MiG-29 has the A and C, the F-15 has the C and E, A and B for the Tomcat, plus it could open the doors for the Super Hornet.

[bfr]

Until they sort out anti-ship missile warheads/ship damage modelling (and I really wish they would get around to this) then Harpoons are kinda rubbish though.  Adding support for Shrike is pretty niche appeal too.

Super Hornet I believe is still constrained by lack of documentation? Much as i'd love to have one in the game.

[Viper1031]

15 hours ago, bfr said:

Until they sort out anti-ship missile warheads/ship damage modelling (and I really wish they would get around to this) then Harpoons are kinda rubbish though.  Adding support for Shrike is pretty niche appeal too.

Super Hornet I believe is still constrained by lack of documentation? Much as i'd love to have one in the game.

Shrikes are coming in twelve days, niche or not, it'd still be pretty nice to have them and be able to use them, along with the Harpoons, rubbish or not.

[bfr]

3 hours ago, Viper1031 said:

Shrikes are coming in twelve days, niche or not, it'd still be pretty nice to have them and be able to use them, along with the Harpoons, rubbish or not.

And they might add support for Shrike to the existing Block 50 if its historically appropriate/accurate. I haven't seen any definitive information that the Block 50 can't rather just doesn't carry them.  I don't recall them ever being on the roadmap for the DCS F-16, although the weapon being introduced into the game via the F-4 may change that. 

[SkateZilla]

Different engine, different engine management system, slightly different flight model.

[Viper1031]

7 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Different engine, different engine management system, slightly different flight model.

All the more reason to add it to the sim

12 hours ago, bfr said:

And they might add support for Shrike to the existing Block 50 if its historically appropriate/accurate. I haven't seen any definitive information that the Block 50 can't rather just doesn't carry them.  I don't recall them ever being on the roadmap for the DCS F-16, although the weapon being introduced into the game via the F-4 may change that. 

IIRC the block 50 wasn't able to carry them, but I'm most certainly probably wrong. Either way, having a second Viper in that block range would be awesome.  And if not a Superhornet, then perhaps another block of the F/A-18 Hornet would be introduced later down the road

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@Viper1031 Sounds like a lot of work for what ultimately is mostly the same aircraft, at least for video game purpose.

What I could see happen down the road is basically F16C II paid upgrade like A10C II, some kind of block 50/52+ with CFTs, newer software and toys like SDB or GBU-54 (JASSM perhaps?) on top of bringing the visuals to 2030 standards

[upyr1]

On 5/8/2024 at 11:27 PM, Viper1031 said:

Now, I know what most of you are gonna say: There's not enough difference between the Block 50 and 52 to warrant this. I would argue otherwise, The CJs are pure Wild Weasel, they can carry HARMs and Shrikes, and the Harpoons. For those two extra weapons alone I believe the Block 52 would be warranted. It would also give us another variant to work with, kinda like the MiG-29 has the A and C, the F-15 has the C and E, A and B for the Tomcat, plus it could open the doors for the Super Hornet.

I have stated this before, if there are noticeable but minor differnces between two blocks such as weapons then it would be nice to have a multipack. Though with the 50 and 52 I would like a few things cleared up, my understanding of things is that the main difference between the Block 50 and 52 was the engine, and the CJ came in both the 50 and 52 variant as the defining trait of the CJ is the harm targeting pod. Next do you have any documentation about either the 50 or 52 carrying the Shrike, as I'm thinking the last Shrikes were fired in Desert Storm and the 50 and 52 entered service after the last Shrike was gone. I know the F-16 carried the Shrike in Desert Storm and earlier, and with the upcoming folda gap map those blocks would be nice to have.  Lastly, the Harpoon, if this is, in fact, a difference then it would be a good reason to add the 52 to the existing viper module.  I know the engine and flight model would be slightly different so even if I am right that would be the only difference then that alone would be the reason to have the block 52. 

 

Edited May 11, 2024 by upyr1

[Tippis]

3 hours ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@Viper1031 Sounds like a lot of work for what ultimately is mostly the same aircraft, at least for video game purpose.

What I could see happen down the road is basically F16C II paid upgrade like A10C II, some kind of block 50/52+ with CFTs, newer software and toys like SDB or GBU-54 (JASSM perhaps?) on top of bringing the visuals to 2030 standards

Or go in the opposite direction to get a very similar result: Block 40 with all the extra systems and features that aren't available in later models, with the added benefit that it then also offers very different gameplay purposes since that's what those extra features were all meant to play into.

Basically, yes — it's probably better to go big (in terms of difference) than to just add a little thing here and there that the player might not even notice because it's just one more thing in an already extensive drop-down list. Not that those extra bits and bobs wouldn't be interesting, but I can definitely see it being a hard sell, both store-wise and dev-wise.

A wider-scope block pack going in a whole bunch of directions at once would be an enticing idea, though…

Edited May 11, 2024 by Tippis

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, Tippis said:

Or go in the opposite direction to get a very similar result: Block 40 with all the extra systems and features that aren't available in later models, with the added benefit that it then also offers very different gameplay purposes since that's what those extra features were all meant to play into.

Basically, yes — it's probably go big (in terms of difference) than to just add a little thing here and there that the player might not even notice because it's just one more thing in an already extensive drop-down list. Not that those extra bits and bobs wouldn't be interesting, but I can definitely see it being a hard sell, both store-wise and dev-wise.

As it looks like we might be getting a folda gap map, I would love to see an A or early C model

[Exorcet]

Figuring out how to get additional variants into DCS would be a nice improvement. I imagine the most sensible way is through module upgrades that expand the range of modules. However it happens, if it happens, I'm all in.

[Kurnass1977]

I remember that when entered sevice at Spangdalhem starting replacing the Weasel Phantoms, the F-16 carry only the Shrikes, the HARMs was added later.

The 52nd TFW start receive Block 30 F-16C/D in 1987,I'll to check when the Block 50 arrived

Edited May 11, 2024 by Kurnass1977

[Northstar98]

I mean, I wouldn't say no to a pre CCIP Block 50/52, I think it would have to come at quite the discount to existing owners as the differences aren't that huge (well a 52 would also have a different engine).

I think though I'd much rather have an even earlier variant - something like a Block 40 which would come with I'd argue a more unique ability (at least among F-16s), with an autopilot-coupled TFR and NAVFLIR (as seen in the F-15E). Going earlier still, the F-16A Block 15 or Block 10 - this would work very well for Cold War scenarios, fitting perfectly on the Kola map and potentially on the teased Germany map.

[upyr1]

On 5/11/2024 at 12:04 PM, Kurnass1977 said:

I remember that when entered sevice at Spangdalhem starting replacing the Weasel Phantoms, the F-16 carry only the Shrikes, the HARMs was added later.

The 52nd TFW start receive Block 30 F-16C/D in 1987,I'll to check when the Block 50 arrived

 

https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article9.html

states that 

The Block 50/52 is the current production version of the F-16 Fighting Falcon. It features the Improved Performance Engines, either the F110-GE-129 for the block 50 or the F100-PW-229 for the block 52. The F100-PW-229 is lighter and more powerful than earlier F100s, and had been flying at Edwards AFB since mid-1990 in test ship #81-0816. Both engines are rated at 29,000lbs of thrust (129kN).

This version first appeared in late 1990. It was unofficially designated F-16CJ/DJ for the same reason as the Block 40/42 unofficial designation. The first Block 50/52 F-16 rolled out of the Fort Worth facility on October 31, 1991 (#90-0801). Production of this version is still ongoing and will be expanded well beyond 2005 with the latest aircraft delivered to Greece and Israel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the F-16C block 50 and 52 entered service after ODS 

Looking at https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article7.html the block 40/42 could carry HARMS though it looks like they were added later

An article written ODS or shortly after https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/0791weasels/ it looks like the available modes were limited

 

[Evoman]

11 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

I mean, I wouldn't say no to a pre CCIP Block 50/52, I think it would have to come at quite the discount to existing owners as the differences aren't that huge (well a 52 would also have a different engine).

I think though I'd much rather have an even earlier variant - something like a Block 40 which would come with I'd argue a more unique ability (at least among F-16s), with an autopilot-coupled TFR and NAVFLIR (as seen in the F-15E). Going earlier still, the F-16A Block 15 or Block 10 - this would work very well for Cold War scenarios, fitting perfectly on the Kola map and potentially on the teased Germany map.

These were my same thoughts. An early F-16A would be more useful to just be able to use an F-16 in cold war scenarios. Plus the early Vipers had a lighter and more agile flight dynamics from what I have read.

[SparxOne]

On 5/11/2024 at 2:40 PM, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@Viper1031 Sounds like a lot of work for what ultimately is mostly the same aircraft, at least for video game purpose.

What I could see happen down the road is basically F16C II paid upgrade like A10C II, some kind of block 50/52+ with CFTs, newer software and toys like SDB or GBU-54 (JASSM perhaps?) on top of bringing the visuals to 2030 standards

Let's not forget about the Scorpion HMD too, not sure if that is a thing with all later F-16 variants, but if it is the case, i'd love to see a 16 upgrade that would add all those, SDBs, GBU-54s, Scorpion HMD and all the stuff i'm not aware of