[Bug] Jester AI doesn't lock air targets on long press of 'Jester Context Action'

[eifionglyn]

With a radar contact in focus under the radar cursor, a long press of the 'Jester Context Action' should command Jester to lock the target.

It seems it doesn't interpret the long press correctly. Feedback from Jester is 'focussing on your guy' but no attempt to lock.

If I command a lock from the wheel in the same situation, lock is achieved immediately, so I don't think the issue is the target is out of parameters to be locked.

This happens with both a hotas button or a keyboard key assigned to Jester Context Action. I've tried clearing all bindings for Jester Context Action and re-assigning just one without positive effect.

The long press of 'Jester UI Action' to close the wheel does work as advertised, so my system is correctly passing a 'long press' input to DCS. The issue appears to be limited to the 'Jester Context Action' control.

Edited June 4, 2024 by HB_Painter
Classification of Bugs and User reports

[eifionglyn]

Tested again this morning and was not able to reproduce.

In both air start and cold start SP missions long press of the context button made jester attempt a lock.

Not sure what caused the issue yesterday. Perhaps it was I had already used the context button to acquire ground range in a dive-toss bombing and it was somehow still trying to lock the ground. I will test again.

[eifionglyn]

Tried to reproduce the behaviour and was again unable. Delivered Mk82s via DT, and subsequent air engagement the context button behaved as advertised.

I think we can put this down as a transient error, or more likely operator error on my part.

[HB_Painter]

Hey thanks for the report! We will nonetheless investigate that behaviour

[GrafRotz]

same here.

Sometimes i have the feeling, that Jester is "locked" in his A2G behavior.
I wish, I had a funktion to tell him explicit, that he has a A2A Job now.

When trying to lock, he responses several times: "No, can't do that Sir", "Roger, focusing on your target", "Unable".
Feels like the bug, he has, when still complaining about your posistion below the tanker, even, when you're done.

[Longiron]

9 hours ago, GrafRotz said:

same here.

Sometimes i have the feeling, that Jester is "locked" in his A2G behavior.
I wish, I had a funktion to tell him explicit, that he has a A2A Job now.

With weapon delivery mode selector in off position a double tap of context switch will send jester back to search mode.

[eifionglyn]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:21 AM, GrafRotz said:

 

When trying to lock, he responses several times: "No, can't do that Sir", "Roger, focusing on your target", "Unable".
Feels like the bug, he has, when still complaining about your posistion below the tanker, even, when you're done.

 

Yep I had it again this morning, it's definitely a thing, but by no means every time.

 

I notice he often gives a 'no can do' when commanded to acquire ground target ranging, and then goes on to get a ground lock anyway. It's feels as if one press of the button is sending multiple inputs to jester.

[Textbook]

It`s when he cannot see a Mig21 6 miles out on the nose no matter what wrangling of the radar behind the scenes i do. Or when he eventually does see the bandit and gets a lock, by the time he goes through his potatoes routine we`ve merged or I`ve had to make the kill with heaters. I`ve also noticed that every time i have to completed a radar lock using cage and NWS button the first Sparrow fired is dumb. The second missile fired using this solution tracks to the target with the same lock. May be a result of the below.

Is any one else seeing the radar firing cue bars that should bracket the target above and below are wildly fluctuating resulting in a shoot - no shoot firing solution being displayed in the cockpit? This happens whilst in STT full lock.

Thanks 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 5/24/2024 at 3:47 PM, eifionglyn said:

With a radar contact in focus under the radar cursor, a long press of the 'Jester Context Action' should command Jester to lock the target.

It seems it doesn't interpret the long press correctly. Feedback from Jester is 'focussing on your guy' but no attempt to lock.

If I command a lock from the wheel in the same situation, lock is achieved immediately, so I don't think the issue is the target is out of parameters to be locked.

This happens with both a hotas button or a keyboard key assigned to Jester Context Action. I've tried clearing all bindings for Jester Context Action and re-assigning just one without positive effect.

The long press of 'Jester UI Action' to close the wheel does work as advertised, so my system is correctly passing a 'long press' input to DCS. The issue appears to be limited to the 'Jester Context Action' control.

 

I noticed the same today. I don't see a way to accurately reproduce it either but I have had a long press trigger Jester saying: "copy, going back to regular scan".
Is it perhaps dependant on the amount of time the context button is being held? In the thick of the moment one (can) react(s) differently than in a controlled environment without stress.

[Zabuzard]

When your range bars fluctuate around heavily, you likely haven't avquired a proper lock but got a sidelobe.

If you want your sparrows to track, you have to doublecheck the information shown on the display to verify if you got a proper lock or not. Especially with CAA, bad locks can happen easily.

[felixx75]

@Zabuzard

I have exactly the same problem as described in the first post. The (air-)target is not locked with a long press of the context button. But it works without problems via the Jester Wheel. Therefore, it should be a "real" and not a "false" contact.

(no problems with air to ground stuff)

@HB_Painter

Why has this thread changed to "resolved"?

Edited June 4, 2024 by felixx75

[HB_Painter]

Because it was not reproducable and seemed to be working again. Will update it

[Zabuzard]

@Zabuzard
I have exactly the same problem as described in the first post. The (air-)target is not locked with a long press of the context button. But it works without problems via the Jester Wheel. Therefore, it should be a "real" and not a "false" contact.
(no problems with air to ground stuff)
@HB_Painter
Why has this thread changed to "resolved"?

We are still trying to investigate what's going on. My current hypothesis is that you are not sending the long-command to DCS but the short-command.

This could be either because of not holding it long enough (a few ms), or because of hardware or DCS issues momentarily interrupting the command.

A short SP track file would be very helpful, as we can then check directly what commands have been sent and received.
You can also try using the keyboard or another hardware and see if the issue resolves that way.

Cheers

[felixx75]

9 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

short SP track file would be very helpful, as we can then check directly what commands have been sent and received.
You can also try using the keyboard or another hardware and see if the issue resolves that way.

I will try to bring a short track today

Edit: Sry, will be tomorrow.

Edited June 4, 2024 by felixx75

[felixx75]

@Zabuzard

@HB_Painter

I have to apologize, because when I tried to create a track, everything worked as it should. For the first time, the Long Press did exactly what it was supposed to do. Since it was an air start, I thought I'd test it with a cold start (since I never actually fly a mission with an air start), but everything worked properly there too.

So I can't say why it didn't work before, or why it's suddenly working now.

I'm sorry about the circumstances, but basically I'm pleased that it now seems to be working without any problems.

[HB_Painter]

Hey don't worry that is great to hear! Nonetheless we will investigate that behaviour!

[eifionglyn]

I've had it happen a few more times since my original post. I think it's definitely a thing - but can't find a reliable set of conditions to reproduce it. I will try a bunch of air starts and post a track file if I see the behaviour. (have not tried air starts yet because I'm an odd one and enjoy manual cold starts!)

[escaner]

This happened to me last monday. I flew 3 times the same mission with a friend and the second one Jester would not lock on long press of context action (instead he just focused). I restarted DCS and it worked again the third time. At the end I managed to lock through Jester's wheel, but lost the lock immediately (might not be related). IIRC, boresight auto lock worked fine.

I am attaching the track. Also have a video recording if needed.

BTW, it is the default Ground Alert Intercept mission modified for MP.

server-20240610-195033.trk

Edited June 14, 2024 by escaner

[escaner]

Oh BTW, in my case I had the new setting "CPU: Radar Performance Mode (WIP)" enabled.

[Zabuzard]

It appears that you are sending the command multiple times.

Cause after commanding a lock, clicking it again would command to unlock the target (which gives the focusing phrase).

Not sure if people are impatient and click the button multiple times or if there is perhaps a hardware issue or DCS shenanigans interrupting the command and sending it again.

I am still hoping to get hands on a working short SP track showing the issue.

Edited June 19, 2024 by Zabuzard

[escaner]

Hi @Zabuzard,

Obviously I was not double long tapping to lock in that mission. As I said, it worked in the previous and next (after restarting DCS) missions. Actually I think this was the only time I had this problem and still had the track just because it was MP and they always auto save.

Anyway, what you say about receiving the input twice makes sense. I have been watching the video and Jester was replying twice in that mission, e.g.: "Locking bogey right 5 21 miles - Alright, focusing on your guy" or "Copy - Copy I've got that one" or "Roger - Alright, focusing on your guy". I didn't notice at the time, but watching it again it is pretty obvious.

[Zabuzard]

Hi @Zabuzard,
Obviously I was not double long tapping to lock in that mission. As I said, it worked in the previous and next (after restarting DCS) missions. Actually I think this was the only time I had this problem and still had the track just because it was MP and they always auto save.
Anyway, what you say about receiving the input twice makes sense. I have been watching the video and Jester was replying twice in that mission, e.g.: "Locking bogey right 5 21 miles - Alright, focusing on your guy" or "Copy - Copy I've got that one" or "Roger - Alright, focusing on your guy". I didn't notice at the time, but watching it again it is pretty obvious.

Yeah. So I believe that's what's happening when people report that issues.

Hardware or DCS shenanigans causing the input to be interrupted momentarily and hence send twice.

We have to see if there is perhaps something we can do to mitigate by making our code more resilient against very short interruptions and multiple inputs send at very short intervals.

We are also planning on adding some form of input log, so that these issues are easier to spot by users.

Thanks

[mytai01]

On 6/19/2024 at 12:49 AM, Zabuzard said:

It appears that you are sending the command multiple times.

Cause after commanding a lock, clicking it again would command to unlock the target (which gives the focusing phrase).

Not sure if people are impatient and click the button multiple times or if there is perhaps a hardware issue or DCS shenanigans interrupting the command and sending it again.

I am still hoping to get hands on a working short SP track showing the issue.

 

Does Jester keep trying to lock a commanded target, or does he give up at some point?

[Zabuzard]

Does Jester keep trying to lock a commanded target, or does he give up at some point?

He will try for multiple seconds. IIRC 10 to 15s.
And then tell you that the couldnt find the target.

You can easily see if he sees the target by him moving and keeping the cursor over it. If that doesnt happen, he doesnt see it.

But again, if the issue here is that DCS sends us multiple commands, you would tell Jester "lock, unlock (focus), lock, unlock (focus),... ". So Jester would immediately abort and follow the next command and so on.

[mondo]

I'm getting something similar but I don't know if it's an issue or a quirk with the radar and jester. I've setup a training mission with 4 flights of 4 H-6 bombers on Sinai. They are incoming at 26kft at 350kts from North to South over a flat bit of desert. The F4 is 50 miles away at 30kft and 400kts head on. As they come into radar Jester is identifying them successfully and I'm able to command him to cycle through all aircraft on the scope. I then perform the action for him to lock, which he does then immediately loses all contacts and the lock. I'm not issuing any additional commands to him as the first few times I tried this he almost got stuck in a loop of responding to inputs.