something changed with force feedback for F-14

[Jeeve79]

F-14 lost it's feel for me,  mainly centering forces now, but not from aero.
Feels generic with some rumble effects,  but no more real forces as it used to have.
They used to come and go, weaken and intensify according to speed, altitude, attitude, flaps .....
I use a MS sidewinder FF 2.  But I am sure other force feedback hardware users must also be feeling the same changes.

Phantom's feedback feels great but I think it broke the F-14 feedback,  I know this sounds weird because there are no notes for F-14 in last changelog, nor do I see notes about force feedback in older changelogs. 
I can't be the only one feeling this,  I have tested several days now, switching planes, restarting, back to menu,  unplugging ....
Nothing changed from my side and I have tested many things now and other planes to make sure it's not me.
I am certain the force feedback on F-14 changed and it is not as great as it was and feels very generic.
Makes me sad,  please fix, revert back to how it was, it felt amazing.

Edited May 26, 2024 by Jeeve79

[fat creason]

I can guarantee you nothing has changed with F-14 FFB and the F-4 has no relation to anything F-14.

[Dentedend10]

Hi! I have recently acquired an FFB base. I am noticing that the autopilot doesn't work with FFB currently.

WHen I engage just attitude hold, the plane pitches down forcefully. This is even after the plane has been trimmed neutral.

When I engage altitude hold, it does not hold the altitude after pressing the reference button and the light going out.

Is there a fix for this?

Thank you for your work on this amazing bird

Edit: it's all fixed. I had to enable the FFB under F14 special settings. Now trim and autopilot work beautifully

Edited May 29, 2024 by Dentedend10

[Gun Jam]

1 hour ago, Dentedend10 said:

Edit: it's all fixed. I had to enable the FFB under F14 special settings. Now trim and autopilot work beautifully

I have the MSFFB2 I just tried this and still cant get it to work. Do you remember the exact name of the item you checked??

[Dentedend10]

1 hour ago, Gun Jam said:

I have the MSFFB2 I just tried this and still cant get it to work. Do you remember the exact name of the item you checked??

"use FFB trim implementation" under F14 Special settings. this is in addition to FFB enabled under general settings

[Gun Jam]

Tried that. Still didn't get usable results. Plane was trimmed well at mach .85 at 35k. Used NWS to set AP ref. plane enters dive or climb and does not seem to respond .Is this speed and angels outside the AP limit? In what situation did you get it to work? I have never observed AP working for the last 2 or 3 years.

Thanks!

[Jeeve79]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:01 PM, fat creason said:

I can guarantee you nothing has changed with F-14 FFB and the F-4 has no relation to anything F-14.

I believe you, and also, you are correct   I just rolled back and getting same issue, bland trim center forces for F-14 only.
Something must have broken for me on specifically F-14, all I did was unplug and replug, maybe during a loading screen.
I am clueless to how to get it back how it was. Maybe I could delete some file that regenerates itself and reset force feedback for the F-14.

I am sure I felt forces coming and going, according to speed or near stall.
Can someone please verify they are indeed feeling those, and not just centering forces towards trim center?

Thanks for reply.

Edited May 29, 2024 by Jeeve79

[Dentedend10]

On 5/29/2024 at 10:19 AM, Gun Jam said:

Tried that. Still didn't get usable results. Plane was trimmed well at mach .85 at 35k. Used NWS to set AP ref. plane enters dive or climb and does not seem to respond .Is this speed and angels outside the AP limit? In what situation did you get it to work? I have never observed AP working for the last 2 or 3 years.

Thanks!

I wasn't at any extremes. probably around angels 10 and 3-400 knots

[JupiterJoe]

I seem to be experiencing something similar. I get an occasional sudden pitch-up whilst in ALT HOLD.  Strangely the A/P Reference light doesn't illuminate, even though the aircraft must be wildly out of hold tolerances.  My MS S/W FFB2 stick gently pitches forward & aft when in ATT HOLD, as if hunting.  Is this normal?  FFB works great in most ways.  It's just frustrating to have A/P 'breakaway' by itself sometimes, as if receiving electrical interference/spurious signals.  It's almost as though  ATT HOLD is conflicting with ALT HOLD.

Combined with the fact the ACLS doesn't work with FFB either, FFB is not really fit for purpose at this time.  A shame, because @fat creason has done such a nice job of modelling it.

Edited July 3, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[RustBelt]

And with now 3 new FFB sticks on the near horizon, it’s going to be a bigger issue very soon.

[Schlomo1933]

Am 29.5.2024 um 23:29 schrieb Jeeve79:

I believe you, and also, you are correct   I just rolled back and getting same issue, bland trim center forces for F-14 only.
Something must have broken for me on specifically F-14, all I did was unplug and replug, maybe during a loading screen.
I am clueless to how to get it back how it was. Maybe I could delete some file that regenerates itself and reset force feedback for the F-14.

I am sure I felt forces coming and going, according to speed or near stall.
Can someone please verify they are indeed feeling those, and not just centering forces towards trim center?

Thanks for reply.

 

i maybe i have a tip for you and @heatblur :

 

I recognized something similar 2 times now.

After i was doing a mission with the F4e Phantom , i started a quick mission with the F-14 Tomcat.

In the Phantom the FFB was all allright, but after switching to the Tomcat the Stick (Rhino) was completely limb and there was no trim force, just the force off AOA (shaking) was working.

After a complete DCS restart the FFB in the Tomcat was working again as intended and all was fine.

 

I had this now for the 2nd time. (Maybe a problem with DCS or the Tomcat, i cant say. But maybe it will help.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Schlomo1933

[JupiterJoe]

Sometimes my AP won't hold altitude.  Heading Hold also doesn't work on occasion.  You can see the elevons making large un-commanded pitch changes, as if receiving spurious signals. 

Does anybody else have a problem with AP whilst using a FFB stick?  AP with my non-FFB stick is steady as a rock. So I'm thinking either the FFB model is broken, or my MS Sidewinder FFB2 is.

Edited August 22, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[Jeeve79]

On 7/15/2024 at 3:03 PM, Schlomo1933 said:

i maybe i have a tip for you and @heatblur :

 

I recognized something similar 2 times now.

After i was doing a mission with the F4e Phantom , i started a quick mission with the F-14 Tomcat.

In the Phantom the FFB was all allright, but after switching to the Tomcat the Stick (Rhino) was completely limb and there was no trim force, just the force off AOA (shaking) was working.

After a complete DCS restart the FFB in the Tomcat was working again as intended and all was fine.

 

I had this now for the 2nd time. (Maybe a problem with DCS or the Tomcat, i cant say. But maybe it will help.

 

This is a known issue Schlomo,  switching planes makes F-14 ffb stop working. Been like that for ever.
 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 8/29/2024 at 5:43 AM, Jeeve79 said:

switching planes makes F-14 ffb stop working

I found that out the hard way as well. If I only fly the F-14 within the same DCS session, I have no problems and the autopilot works just fine.

[JupiterJoe]

On 5/29/2024 at 6:19 PM, Gun Jam said:

Tried that. Still didn't get usable results. Plane was trimmed well at mach .85 at 35k. Used NWS to set AP ref. plane enters dive or climb and does not seem to respond .Is this speed and angels outside the AP limit? In what situation did you get it to work? I have never observed AP working for the last 2 or 3 years.

Thanks!

Did you ever solve this issue @Gun Jam?

[Snowcat08]

Is there a list somewhere of what FFB effects are built into this module?  I’m pretty new to FFB, but when I use only the built in effects all I can feel is a strong centering force that keeps the stick wherever the trim is set.  I can’t feel any difference when airspeed is changed. On the other hand, I can feel stick force changes with speed in the F4E module. I have a MOZA base with the telemetry effects turned off. Thanks!

[UN9249]

hi i purchased mosa ffb. turned it in options. aircraft is not trimming. ap is not working.

[JupiterJoe]

16 hours ago, UN9249 said:

hi i purchased mosa ffb. turned it in options. aircraft is not trimming. ap is not working.

(4) Discord | #f14-feedback-bugs-suggestions | Heatblur Simulations

[UN9249]

2 часа назад, JupiterJoe сказал:

(4) Discord | #f14-feedback-bugs-suggestions | Heatblur Simulations

Hi. it's empty whatever i choose.

 

null

[JupiterJoe]

null

[MAXsenna]

23 hours ago, UN9249 said:

hi i purchased mosa ffb. turned it in options. aircraft is not trimming. ap is not working.

For trimming, have you turned on direct mode or whatever it's called in the Moza software, and enabled FFB trimming in the F-14 under the special settings in DCS? 

[UN9249]

30 минут назад, MAXsenna сказал:

For trimming, have you turned on direct mode or whatever it's called in the Moza software, and enabled FFB trimming in the F-14 under the special settings in DCS? 

i use moza profile. by default and yes, ffb trimming was enabled.

[JupiterJoe]

Help!  My stick goes limp.

Passing through another aircraft's wake whilst taxiing breaks FFB for me on too regular a basis.  Very frustrating after a cold start and a long wait for alignment etc   

Here is a bug report I made earlier:

 

Edited April 10 by JupiterJoe

[JupiterJoe]

On 4/6/2025 at 7:32 PM, UN9249 said:

i use moza profile. by default and yes, ffb trimming was enabled.

From Discord:

Quote

My F14 FFB settings (VPForceRhino)
Pitch/Role -> Try remove any pitch/roll curves set in DCS for F14, known issue.
Pitch/Role -> Try setting a small dead-zone (1) on pitch/roll for F14 [New modern controllers with Hal sensors are extremely sensitive and almost constantly send an input signal].  
Special -> F14 -> Check is on for "Enable FFB trim Implementation"
Controls - > F14 -> MOZA -> Tune FFB -> Set Trimmer Force = 100, Set Shake 'as needed' if "ONLY" using native DCS ffb input, If using an alternative app that overrides DCS ffb inputs, set Shake as '0'.